Please offer a change to the Perception NightWave creates

[nokturnihs]

So my original post was is more detailed (and more dramatic apparently) and really got some fanboi's panties all in a bunch. So... I'll only say this after editing:

NightWave creates a perception change in the grind inherent to Warframe. It makes the game hard to enjoy and my ENTIRE CLAN found the change only served to remind us of the grind, while reducing enjoyment. They are inactive and I only login once every few weeks now instead of the hours daily prior to nightwave (literally prior). 

Offering us more individual choice to pick tasks might change that perspective. Changing the reward structure to be more "story" oriented and new-player friendly might help. I am not a new player. I wait through content drought all the time. Before NW I'd wait playing Warframe. Now I don't.

Edited September 13, 2019 by nokturnihs
Apparently criticism is offensive to fanboi's

[Genitive]

How about you provide a few ideas instead of asking for "something other"?

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

12 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

1. It's a chores list filled with stuff I don't enjoy or stuff that doesn't make sense (build another amp/kitgun to gild, forma 3 things) - I hate wasting those resources doing things I've already completed. It's just asking for either my money (waste forma) or pointless grinding. 

2. There's no choice. If I could select a number of tasks from the chores list and earn the standing that would be great. That alone might get me back. 

3. There's no way outside of grinding EVERY DAY or at minimum tens of hours per week for weeks to get the Umbral forma. It's the only reward to me worth getting and it's locked behind a grind mechanic that makes it hard for me to enjoy the game.

1.  They've removed the gild challenge.  I don't believe they've removed the forma challenge, but there's no reason you have to do every challenge.

2.  You certainly have a choice.  You can choose not to do any challenges.  You can choose to do a subset of them.  It's up to you.  You're not forced to do anything here.

3.  There are at least 10 weeks in every NW season.  This season will have 12 or more weeks.  You only need to complete about 60% of the challenges to get to rank 30.  Umbra forma was rank 26 this NW, I believe, so it's even less points needed.  Earning all the weekly challenges is far less than 10s of hours per week, and you certainly don't have to do every challenge, so it's not even that many weeks.

[Sloan441]

Um...just don't do it? 

I find it pretty easy to ignore when I'm not in the mood to deal with it. Everything else in the game is still there. 

This season was very easy to get done and I skipped a quite of few things I regard as annoying. A significant percentage of NW tasks you get done just by doing the stuff you usually do. 

Not seeing a problem here. 

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

36 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

There's no way outside of grinding EVERY DAY or at minimum tens of hours per week for weeks to get the Umbral forma. It's the only reward to me worth getting and it's locked behind a grind mechanic that makes it hard for me to enjoy the game.

Unless the challenge requires some daily content, like sorties, it barely takes 5 hours to complete all the challenges for the week. No need to exaggerate.

This is Warframe. The game is all about farming and grinding, so grind mechanics are expected.

Edited September 13, 2019 by (PS4)Quantaminum

[Sajochi]

Ah, the old ultimatum. Might as well stay away forever with that attitude.

[Hobie-wan]

There's even the catchup mechanic now. So you could ignore stuff you don't want to do or play and complete whatever happens naturally and if they announce the end date and you're still far off, then you could just grind at the end to make sure you get the item you want. Also we managed all this time without the Umbra forma. It isn't necessary at all, just overkill power.

[Velothed]

2 hours ago, nokturnihs said:

1. It's a chores list filled with stuff I don't enjoy or stuff that doesn't make sense (build another amp/kitgun to gild, forma 3 things) - I hate wasting those resources doing things I've already completed. It's just asking for either my money (waste forma) or pointless grinding. 

2. There's no choice. If I could select a number of tasks from the chores list and earn the standing that would be great. That alone might get me back. 

3. There's no way outside of grinding EVERY DAY or at minimum tens of hours per week for weeks to get the Umbral forma. It's the only reward to me worth getting and it's locked behind a grind mechanic that makes it hard for me to enjoy the game.

1. Like others have said, Gilding is gone, forma is still there, but with new stuff coming out I can't fathom anyone every beeing dona formaing, we just got Gauss and two weapons, Acceltra can easily use 2 forma and I bet there are still a lot of weapons in your collection, that could use another one.

2. So, I haven't done every challange, none this week for that matter and am at Rank 40 (30 + 10 prestige) with 2 more weeks to go. I have done the math in another thread and you can completely ignore the dailies and about half the weeklies and still reach rank 30 easy. I haven't taken the Zealots into account yet which seem to spawn every second mission and give 500 standing.

3. With most weeks I could complete the entire list of challanges for that week in under 2h.

Also catchup mechanics are really lenient this time and you can basically complete the entire nightwave on one weekend (a few things like Simaris targets are timegated but like I said you can skip alot)

I think the biggest hurdle for players who don't like the system is that they feel to pressured by it, the feeling you have to do everything or you'll miss out. In the end it's a way less annoying grind than many other things in the game.

Also remember there are no more exclusive things in the game, everything will come back eventually, I'm kinda sad that I missed the first Nightwave season, especially the Wolf mask, but I'm 100% certain it will be obtainable again.

 

Edited September 13, 2019 by Vethalon

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

9 minutes ago, Vethalon said:

a few things like Simaris targets are timegated but like I said you can skip alot

Simaris actually isn't timegated. You can scan a target and abandon the mission. It will still count for the challenge, but not for Simaris daily task, just like rivens.

Edited September 13, 2019 by (PS4)Quantaminum

[nokturnihs]

2 hours ago, Genitive said:

How about you provide a few ideas instead of asking for "something other"?

I've provided ideas in the past - let us pick from the total list of weekly NightWave possible " challenges" would be Enough to balance out the "chores list effect". I've contributed ideas for new game modes. I've suggested a lot over Twitter or here over the years and in the OP - so how about you read it again?

[nokturnihs]

1 hour ago, Sajochi said:

Ah, the old ultimatum. Might as well stay away forever with that attitude.

Oh I still play Warframe, just doesn't have the fun it did since the "chores list" came around. Garbage responses like these might. Certainly kills any respect I have for community members with this kind of attitude.

[nokturnihs]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Quantaminum said:

Unless the challenge requires some daily content, like sorties, it barely takes 5 hours to complete all the challenges for the week. No need to exaggerate.

This is Warframe. The game is all about farming and grinding, so grind mechanics are expected.

Yes grind mechanics are expected - but just like all other grind games when you play them you want to enjoy the grind - things like hunting floofs or fighting eidolons for the billionth time got old a long time ago, so I don't enjoy them. And why would I spend forma when MOST guns/melees/frames in the game have at least 2-3 forma each in my account? Etc. Just want some choice man. I used to spend hours playing warframe, doing stupid crap like hitting hydron just to help people level faster and enjoyed it. The Chores List thing created a perception change that reminds me of how much grind there is for minimal reward and it makes it a lot harder to enjoy.

[nokturnihs]

57 minutes ago, Vethalon said:

1. Like others have said, Gilding is gone, forma is still there, but with new stuff coming out I can't fathom anyone every beeing dona formaing, we just got Gauss and two weapons, Acceltra can easily use 2 forma and I bet there are still a lot of weapons in your collection, that could use another one.

2. So, I haven't done every challange, none this week for that matter and am at Rank 40 (30 + 10 prestige) with 2 more weeks to go. I have done the math in another thread and you can completely ignore the dailies and about half the weeklies and still reach rank 30 easy. I haven't taken the Zealots into account yet which seem to spawn every second mission and give 500 standing.

3. With most weeks I could complete the entire list of challanges for that week in under 2h.

Also catchup mechanics are really lenient this time and you can basically complete the entire nightwave on one weekend (a few things like Simaris targets are timegated but like I said you can skip alot)

I think the biggest hurdle for players who don't like the system is that they feel to pressured by it, the feeling you have to do everything or you'll miss out. In the end it's a way less annoying grind than many other things in the game.

Also remember there are no more exclusive things in the game, everything will come back eventually, I'm kinda sad that I missed the first Nightwave season, especially the Wolf mask, but I'm 100% certain it will be obtainable again.

 

Throwing forma in anything new takes me like 10min per. It's not really hard but whenever new content comes - that's like an hour of entertainment and then it's done. No need for spending forma when all my crap is done. 

I understand the catchup mechanics are better and it's not incredibly bad - you're right about the pressured feeling though - it's a perception issue. Before NightWave and it's exclusive rewards there wasn't too much outside of events that you couldn't farm at some point in the future, or at 2AM by yourself or whatever. But NightWave made it hard to see those things as anything other than chores, and that's not so fun. Also I realize not everyone is gonna feel this way. Some people love NightWave. It helps other players. Cool. Makes me happy. But some of us don't enjoy the fun-killing reminders and my WHOLE CLAN went inactive after NW came out, and all for the same reasons.

I would be fine with ignoring NightWave altogether too if Umbral Forma wasn't locked exclusively behind that time-wall. It should be in the sortie or arbitration or one other way of acquisition. Do I need it? No. But I like umbral builds. Meanwhile Arbitration which I do enjoy is getting a bunch of "meh" auras - when it could be a virus offering. Or baro. Or whatever. A single Umbral Forma is never going to outshine a decent Riven and yet it's harder to acquire than Rivens as the time investment is staggering per-item in comparison.

 

[(PSN)Quantaminum]

1 minute ago, nokturnihs said:

Yes grind mechanics are expected - but just like all other grind games when you play them you want to enjoy the grind - things like hunting floofs or fighting eidolons for the billionth time got old a long time ago, so I don't enjoy them. And why would I spend forma when MOST guns/melees/frames in the game have at least 2-3 forma each in my account? Etc. Just want some choice man. I used to spend hours playing warframe, doing stupid crap like hitting hydron just to help people level faster and enjoyed it. The Chores List thing created a perception change that reminds me of how much grind there is for minimal reward and it makes it a lot harder to enjoy.

No one enjoys every mechanic in a game.

It's just means to an end.

I don't like defense, but I played the s*** out of Hydron to rush MR, as well as IO matches to get Oxium to build the stuff I wanted/needed.

I don't like Atlas, but I had to play him to get MR points.

I hate excavations, but I played them anyway to get the cryotic I needed.

If you want Umbra forma, you gotta grind for it, whether you like a small portion of these tasks or not (or hope for a twitch drop during certain streams).

 

I don't mind the forma challenge, but that's just me with loads of gear waiting for a forma. However, if I didn't have anything to forma, I'd revisit some warframe build or weapon that I just leveled for MR.

[Sajochi]

34 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

Oh I still play Warframe, just doesn't have the fun it did since the "chores list" came around. Garbage responses like these might. Certainly kills any respect I have for community members with this kind of attitude.

Glad you got so triggered by my response. You haven't said anything new that other nightwave whiners have said. And yes, it is whining.

Also, what I say is not a reflection of the community. It is merely my own opinion about your garbage post. 

[nokturnihs]

1 hour ago, Sajochi said:

Glad you got so triggered by my response. You haven't said anything new that other nightwave whiners have said. And yes, it is whining.

Also, what I say is not a reflection of the community. It is merely my own opinion about your garbage post. 

I edited my post to be more precise and less "whining" but it's the kind of disenfranchising comments you make that do reflect badly on the community. It's a FEEDBACK post - the OP wasn't meant for you - it was meant for DE.

Despite what you think, It's actually okay to express a response to a game mechanic - it actually makes/saves companies a lot of money. I read the reactions and re-read my post and realized I was being dramatic and probably did sound like I was whining. My opinion however is valid - to some people it's changing our perception of the game and making it less enjoyable. Because you don't agree with it and think we're whining because of it doesn't make it a valid point and thus a viable, useful form of feedback.

Yeah I was triggered by your comment - it discouraged actual discussion, was disenfranchising and was dismissive of others (regardless of the validity or invalidity of the feedback). Plain and simple it was an attempt to make yourself feel better (maybe look better to your peers) by trying to alienate me and make me feel bad. It's also sadly typical of forums and it's a great example of why as gamers we get pinned with false "toxic entitled Gamers" label. Because your right, your behavior isn't representative of the community as a whole, and most gamers aren't either, just people. But from an outsiders perspective your commentary would absolutely sell that label - just an FYI

[Genitive]

2 hours ago, nokturnihs said:

I've provided ideas in the past - let us pick from the total list of weekly NightWave possible " challenges" would be Enough to balance out the "chores list effect". I've contributed ideas for new game modes. I've suggested a lot over Twitter or here over the years and in the OP - so how about you read it again?

How is being able to chose from all the challenges more balanced than what we have now? You'll just keep repeating the same challenges over and over until you're bored. That is why DE changed the bounty act – people kept running a single bounty 5 times.

[Sajochi]

22 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

I edited my post to be more precise and less "whining" but it's the kind of disenfranchising comments you make that do reflect badly on the community. It's a FEEDBACK post - the OP wasn't meant for you - it was meant for DE.

Despite what you think, It's actually okay to express a response to a game mechanic - it actually makes/saves companies a lot of money. I read the reactions and re-read my post and realized I was being dramatic and probably did sound like I was whining. My opinion however is valid - to some people it's changing our perception of the game and making it less enjoyable. Because you don't agree with it and think we're whining because of it doesn't make it a valid point and thus a viable, useful form of feedback.

Yeah I was triggered by your comment - it discouraged actual discussion, was disenfranchising and was dismissive of others (regardless of the validity or invalidity of the feedback). Plain and simple it was an attempt to make yourself feel better (maybe look better to your peers) by trying to alienate me and make me feel bad. It's also sadly typical of forums and it's a great example of why as gamers we get pinned with false "toxic entitled Gamers" label. Because your right, your behavior isn't representative of the community as a whole, and most gamers aren't either, just people. But from an outsiders perspective your commentary would absolutely sell that label - just an FYI

You put an ultimatum in your post. You essentially said "Cater to me or I'm out." That doesn't bring any grounds for discussion. I'll give you props for editing your post to try and get some semblance of discussion going, but that's not going to happen with your new opening

5 hours ago, nokturnihs said:

So my original post was is more detailed (and more dramatic apparently) and really got some fanboi's panties all in a bunch. So... I'll only say this after editing:

Yeah, that says "I'm open to discussing things in a level headed way." You set the precedent, if that's how you're going to do it then you might as well take that attitude elsewhere.

[nokturnihs]

40 minutes ago, Genitive said:

How is being able to chose from all the challenges more balanced than what we have now? You'll just keep repeating the same challenges over and over until you're bored. That is why DE changed the bounty act – people kept running a single bounty 5 times.

I'd love the choice is the thing. I like enough of warframe in general too be able to mix that up. It would alter the perspective of the grind to something more manageable. I like most game modes (not a big conclave fan or lunar) - I don't get tired of survival or defense or any of them.

[nokturnihs]

35 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

You put an ultimatum in your post. You essentially said "Cater to me or I'm out." That doesn't bring any grounds for discussion. I'll give you props for editing your post to try and get some semblance of discussion going, but that's not going to happen with your new opening

Yeah, that says "I'm open to discussing things in a level headed way." You set the precedent, if that's how you're going to do it then you might as well take that attitude elsewhere.

Yeah, which I changed. Speaking of setting precedence, I spent some time reading your comments in other threads and topics and it's clear to me you must have a low self esteem or get some kind of kick out of cyberbullying because you certainly do treat most people badly here. Which leads me to realize you don't matter. Your opinion doesn't matter. You already said earlier you don't represent the community, so go be abusive elsewhere please. You are the one unwelcome.

[Sajochi]

55 minutes ago, nokturnihs said:

Yeah, which I changed. Speaking of setting precedence, I spent some time reading your comments in other threads and topics and it's clear to me you must have a low self esteem or get some kind of kick out of cyberbullying because you certainly do treat most people badly here. Which leads me to realize you don't matter. Your opinion doesn't matter. You already said earlier you don't represent the community, so go be abusive elsewhere please. You are the one unwelcome.

Yeah, you just derailed your own thread right here. The moment you start going for insults, your point is already lost.

Edited September 14, 2019 by Sajochi

[nokturnihs]

54 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

Yeah, you just derailed your own thread right here. The moment you start going for insults, your point is already lost.

Didn't you set the precedence there? As far as my thread is concerned, I significantly doubt anyone from DE will actually read it or consider it so...

Edit: they may actually read it, but it's unlikely considering it derailed much earlier than this.

Edited September 14, 2019 by nokturnihs
Appended for qualifying statement.

[nokturnihs]

48 minutes ago, Sajochi said:

Yeah, you just derailed your own thread right here. The moment you start going for insults, your point is already lost.

Also, convince me I'm wrong. I don't see much from your post history to convince me and you don't seem to be reticent at all about your behavior but if you can contribute in some kind of positive manner, feel welcome. Effective discussion is far more preferential, I assure you.