Warframe Mission Difficulty Changes/Ideas

[Worsin]

I have been playing MMO's since EQ1.  I have done my share of group play and raiding so I think by now I've seen every type of raid/group scenarios there are and from my perspective Warframe is severely lacking in this area.

Also, i'm sure some of these things have been mentioned in the past but I think its something worth putting in DE's face again in hopes to get them to act on it.

We have a lot of mission types but they are in some ways all the same.  The mobs all have the same scaling.  They all start out with 1 level and gradually increase in level but it seems level doesn't matter, they all die pretty much instantly depending on the weapon you use.  With the right frame you can wipe entire rooms and it would seem DE cannot make these missions harder without simply adding more mobs.  This does not help though in my opinion, adding more mobs does not make this game harder it just prioritizes certain frames above others.

Why can't we have some missions that instead of a million mobs they all have WAY more health and abilities that really challenge a group?  The type of mobs where you need CC to lock some of them down while multiple people are hammering on the ones that aren't CCed?

I'm not saying get rid of what we have, the missions we have are fun but they get repetitive. We need to change things up a little.

We need missions where when you come upon a group of enemies you have to plan how to take them all down.  None of this running in with 1 AOE killing everything.  None of this Spin to Win wiping out the entire group crap.

Some missions that DE should add from my perspective are:

1. Mobs that have MUCH higher health pools and special abilities that force players to focus fire to down them faster.
2. Immunities to Slash and other damage types.  This would make some of the lesser used damage types more relevant.
3. Mobs that heal other mobs or mobs that CC players for a given amount of time, Mind Control, Sleep etc  This would make CCing these types of mobs or prioritizing them in a fight.
4. Periodic Bosses that are required to kill before unlocking other parts of the zone.  To me this would remove some of the RUSH grind that makes Warframe feel so repetitive.  The bosses would hopefully be hard enough that you cannot solo them.
5. Missions that use the structure of bounties, multiple phases that include Boss type mobs that require a group to defeat.
6. Spy missions that cannot be cheesed.  These could require more skill and not just knowing a shortcut to the terminal that does not require stealth at all.
7. Bosses that are not based on the repetitive Synovia concept.  I mean seriously, how many bosses are we going to fight that have the exact same fight mechanic?  Eidolons, Ropalolyst, Thumpers and a few other bosses all seem to have the same "Shoot this spot on the boss" mechanic.  We can be more creative than this can't we?
8. Mobs that see through stealth...sorry Ivara...i love you but sometimes you are too good.

If anyone has any other mission types they would like to see added pls feel free to comment.

 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Worsin

[Worsin]

Here is another topic on the matter

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1129045-multiple-mission-ideas/

[(XBOX)PoiznDeth]

I agree with most of this, however most MMOs are huge open worlds or have static spawns for mini bosses. DE spent a lot of time making the game be able to be played solo. Now we need to add that sprinkle of endgame back into the mold. Adding anti stealth beyond nullies and grids will remove most solo stealth runs. I suggest hardened mission with these arch types, like nightmare missions or advanced endless mission types. This game gives off a 1 vs 1000 style awesomeness for powerful builds and allows for drop in & out solo & casual play. Adding things to halt progress because we are to strong will push some players away. We need some endgame exclusive difficulty that doesn't affect 3-10min random runs for a mod run or boss kill.

[TheSixOfDiamonds]

We have enemies that heal, enemies with heftier health pools or needing priority (in technicality, I know while soloing it definitely applies if you aren't using "meta" frames/builds. Nox, Nullifiers, Heavy Gunners, Commanders, and Ancient Healers). We have field bosses, though they don't lock progression in a given mission, usually they lock down the entire level (potentially stranding allies).

I'm game for the dynamic missions, if they get them to work right. From time to time I still get bounties that take way to long to tick to the next phase. On board with the "more than shoot the shiny bit" for bosses, maybe we can make Lech Kril not annoying.

Mobs that see through stealth and uncheesable Spy is a hard no from me. I already hate Spy/Rescue because they don't feel like they fit, they (alongside Interception) are the sole reason I haven't filled out the star chart. The less time I have to spend in these missions the better, let me have my cheese and have done.

The core problem is the "difficulty", Warframe. The scaling is awful and not likely to change. I can run a single Survival solo and go from " i could be doing this while eating a sandwich" to "my health is gone in under 1s because the enemies laugh at 95% reduction with procs and numbers" in one 20min session. And right next to that is the super tank or super cheese frames and weapons that trivialize almost all content in the game solo. I don't expect changes here.

A final pair of notes:

1) Warframe doesn't follow the same format as WoW, EQ, SWTOR, or other MMOs. It isn't "get quest, do quest" in the same vein. It also rarely requires 4 man teams, plenty of us are solo players when not required.

2) While I don't inherently object to team play stuff, like CC and priority, DE would likely chuck it in irregardless of number of players in a team. Which would ruin my day as a solo player. I play Warframe because it plays like old school UT but with rewards. Fun side note: DE helped on that one, too.

Sorry if I come across as rude, but this is just how I see it. Not intended.

[Kwikwilyaqa]

More CC's and immunity? Moar? How about more nullifiers and more armor for everyone?

Warframe need new concepts, not the continuous use of outdated and unbalanced mechanics (or plain boring like 90% of all the CC's - that have a rope as base). Immunity is just a lazy mode to not care to balance an enemy to the frames and weapons, and doing so, they are cripping the concept that hold the game together. Same goes to nullify abilities - you deny the frame, you counter with laziness and annoyance (is like a kid saying "is my turn on the PC" and proceeds to shut down the power in the whole house). And other being utilized in every new boss and some units is invincibility... well, you need to wait 10secs after shot that in the head to be able to shoot it in the head again... like, what? And Warframe don't have any sort of diminishing return like MMO's, so, put 10 new mobs with CC's and you gonna suffer 100% of the effects for 100% of the time every time they spawn (and the AI will use the CC as the first ability always, since there is no randomization in mob behavior).

The game need work with balance/design first. The frames, the mechanics, the damage types (since almost all of them are irrelevant or useless), the AI, the enemy units. There a lot of outdated stuff laying around - with little to no work they can became interesting. Some of them need to be deleted - others they can multiplicate and get fancy.

Now difficulty is a subjective concept. I fail to see any of the changes you propose as "challenging":

(1) "MUCH higher health pools" is irrelevant. Now, if armor is balanced, this for sure will happen;

(2) "Mobs that see through stealth..." is just the lackluster and generic enemy AI (one day i hope this will improve greatly);

(3) "Mobs that heal other mobs or mobs that CC players for a given amount of time" are in the game already (ancient healers reduce damage by 95%, bursas can down players for 5secs if i'm not mistaken, so the damn ropes everywhere pushing the player around - is basically a 3sec stun). Sleep, stun and other MMO's mechanics are very far from WF reality if you think a bit, where you have an infected body been controlled by a infected kid... Serious, CC's need to be balanced, Diminishing Returns need to be applied, AI need randomization in behavior, then you introduce new CC elements, hell, even combine stuff to be deadly. For now is just annoying - the more crowded the level/boss/mission, the worst, and if you are playing Single Player, remember that you are the only focus in there, so... even worst;

(4) "Bosses that are not based on the repetitive Synovia concept". I love how Thumpers, the Eidolons and the Profit Taker was designed. And you can use a single concept multiple times with success for sure because what make the fight good or bad is what is around the boss, not how you damage it per si. A head is a weak-spot for humans, an articulation for a spider, the "synovia" for eidolons - that base can't change (or can with armor, body modifications, etc.), but the design is the whole fight, not how the final damage is dealt. Now WF need to "clean" the fights like some MMO's for sure - fases, cooldowns, unit spawns, etc., need to be revised in so many cases;

(5) "The bosses would hopefully be hard enough that you cannot solo them" this is... you know that a good percentage of players play solo only right?...

[(PSN)thegarada]

Man, people cry rivers for nullifiers. While I am down with more diverse scenarios and difficulty, some suggestions here are off the wall.

1. Mobs that have MUCH higher health pools and special abilities that force players to focus fire to down them faster.

Armor scaling is already an issue. Not sure we need mobs with higher HP pool. One of the better things WF has is no bullet sponges. More difficult mobs with special abilities though are highly welcome.

2. Immunities to Slash and other damage types.  This would make some of the lesser used damage types more relevant.

Absolutely not. Mobs should never, ever, under any condition, take no damage from specific damage types. This has been tried in other games before, more than a decade ago, and proven to be a disaster. Plus, we already have different mobs takes more or less damage from specific damage types.

3. Mobs that heal other mobs or mobs that CC players for a given amount of time, Mind Control, Sleep etc  This would make CCing these types of mobs or prioritizing them in a fight.

Like arbitration drones? As for CC, problem in here is that unlike a regular MMO, you have limited skills that you cannot change them. Emphasizing attacking specific mobs first, is a good idea. CC, will not work well.

4. Periodic Bosses that are required to kill before unlocking other parts of the zone.  To me this would remove some of the RUSH grind that makes Warframe feel so repetitive.  The bosses would hopefully be hard enough that you cannot solo them.

I do not think this is a good idea, but some elements of it could work well.

5. Missions that use the structure of bounties, multiple phases that include Boss type mobs that require a group to defeat.

I think this should be a good idea for future open world areas,

6. Spy missions that cannot be cheesed.  These could require more skill and not just knowing a shortcut to the terminal that does not require stealth at all.

Can spy missions be completely removed? Seriously, they are boring as #*!%. And WF is not a stealth game.

7. Bosses that are not based on the repetitive Synovia concept.  I mean seriously, how many bosses are we going to fight that have the exact same fight mechanic?  Eidolons, Ropalolyst, Thumpers and a few other bosses all seem to have the same "Shoot this spot on the boss" mechanic.  We can be more creative than this can't we?

I think that would be a good idea. As long as we stay away from "only attack here." I think that Ropalolyst is an example of a decent design (less the first phase and the operator section). 

8. Mobs that see through stealth...sorry Ivara...i love you but sometimes you are too good.

While I do think some changes to stealth would be nice. I do not think major changes are required. Stealth is a good way to overcome silly missions, like spy. Other than than, there are frames that are way more survivable than Ivara or Loki, no matter how long you stay in stealth.

 

In terms of mission design for me, I think having mini bosses spawn, something like elites in Diablo, would spice things up. Sentient mimics are interesting, but very limited. You get random spawns, NW, Syndicates and Stalker. We probably need more of this stuff to keep missions more random and interesting.