Galatine Is Seriously Op

[konfetarius]

.5 seconds is not very significant, especially when there are two mods that more than compensate for that weakness.  Saying it's 70% longer is like saying 2 is a far huger number than 1, because it's a 100% increase.

You know, there was an actually mathematically relevant retort you could have used.

 

If you have a gun that takes 2 seconds to kill something, by whatever virtue, and has 1 damage, then adding 1 damage will result in 1 second kills. Double damage is double damage, using statements like "far huger number" doesn't do you any favors.

[NikolaiLev]

why do people assume that everyone will use the weapon with the most damage all the time?

 

i maxed my Galatine and locked it up for my Obex, which i have continued to use, since i got it, as it is my preferred melee weapon by choice.

 

Don't speak for the Player Base that you do not represent.

 

Not everyone.  Just most people.

 

I use weapons like the Braton and the Bo.  I hate using overpowered weapons because they take away challenge.  However, I'd like to have more choice when dealing with endgame content, because even with a potato the aforementioned weapons just can't compete with the likes of the Soma or the Galatine.

 

It'd result in seeing more variety of weapons, and that's nice too.  That's why I want to see good balance.

[DAFIRE]

My glaive prime 1-shots everything up to lvl 60 too :D

Sometimes it does 95k dmg crits(not kidding xD)

[ObviousLee]

Not everyone.  Just most people.

 

I use weapons like the Braton and the Bo.  I hate using overpowered weapons because they take away challenge.  However, I'd like to have more choice when dealing with endgame content, because even with a potato the aforementioned weapons just can't compete with the likes of the Soma or the Galatine.

 

It'd result in seeing more variety of weapons, and that's nice too.  That's why I want to see good balance.

i can agree with that. Instead of taking away every new late-game advantage we have, it'd be nice to see more weapons capable of pushing us further and further out into the map. why would one want to be weaker in the first place(within reason of course)

[NikolaiLev]

i can agree with that. Instead of taking away every new late-game advantage we have, it'd be nice to see more weapons capable of pushing us further and further out into the map. why would one want to be weaker in the first place(within reason of course)

 

Either we nerf the Galatine and buff melee in general, or we buff everything else and then buff melee anyways.

 

Buffing melee is going to happen.  We might as well put the Galatine in line with other weapons.  Adjusting a few weapons (Orthos Prime, Galatine, Dakra, etc..) versus adjusting dozens (you do remember there are dozens of other melee weapons, right?) is only logical.  There's less room for error, and it avoids power creep, which is always bad.

[Eyeless]

Either we nerf the Galatine and buff melee in general, or we buff everything else and then buff melee anyways.

 

Buffing melee is going to happen.  We might as well put the Galatine in line with other weapons.  Adjusting a few weapons (Orthos Prime, Galatine, Dakra, etc..) versus adjusting dozens (you do remember there are dozens of other melee weapons, right?) is only logical.  There's less room for error, and it avoids power creep, which is always bad.

Those three wouldn't have to be brought in line if every other melee was brought to their level and as it stands DE is determined for there to be 'Tiers' of weapons.

 

I personally don't agree with that but as it stands we need powerful weapons to take with us into T3 Survivals and Defenses, as well as the occasional lvl 45 (old lvl 102-103) alerts, which is where the high tier weapons like the Soma, Embolist, and Galatine come into play.

 

Again, bringing another weapon down in a game to make others good when all the others are lackluster is not a good way to balance things.

 

With Melee 2.0 on the horizon we still can't say for sure whether the Orthos or Galatine will be the dominant melees. As they are now they're fine for a few waves of a T3 Defense or a short while in T3 Survivals.

 

After that it's like hitting enemies with a wet rotting log.

[NikolaiLev]

Those three wouldn't have to be brought in line if every other melee was brought to their level and as it stands DE is determined for there to be 'Tiers' of weapons.

 

I personally don't agree with that but as it stands we need powerful weapons to take with us into T3 Survivals and Defenses, as well as the occasional lvl 45 (old lvl 102-103) alerts, which is where the high tier weapons like the Soma, Embolist, and Galatine come into play.

 

Again, bringing another weapon down in a game to make others good when all the others are lackluster is not a good way to balance things.

 

I don't see how.  And again, it's just more logical to adjust the few than to adjust the many.  Every other melee weapon wouldn't have to be buffed if those three were brought in line.

 

It doesn't matter if DE is determined to create tiers of weapons.  Player demand can change that, and it should.

[konfetarius]

I don't see how.  And again, it's just more logical to adjust the few than to adjust the many.  Every other melee weapon wouldn't have to be buffed if those three were brought in line.

There will still be melee weapon tiers. They are not going to make "every other weapon equal." Their primary solution to the Soma should be evidence enough of that - they raised Mastery rank to indicate it's "tier" over bringing it in line with most other guns. The existence of Prime/Wraith upgrade skins is another example.

 

Realistically, you can hope for is parity in "overall power" between different classes of melee weapons, and obvious top tier dogs within them. The predictions for which are meaningless, because we don't even know the full extent of the changes and how they will impact melee weapon balance. For we know, charge vs. melee mod dichotomy is going to evaporate and both types of attacks become vital to a weapon's function. Galatine might become S#&$ because of that. They might give the Galatine a vastly inferior parry function as a trade off for it's power. They might end up buffing a lot of weapons by giving their specialized moves like slides a disproportionately higher power, leaving Galatine in the dust if you want to prance around while doing damage.

 

Your problem here is that you looking at an extremely one dimensional melee system, proclaiming "Lo, some melee weapons hit really hard, let's ruin their defining aspect before seeing if the melee weapons is going to be populated by other balancing factors!"

 

Nerfing the Galatine/etc. at this moment is pointless. You are trying to proclaim power creep by pretending that all melee 2.0 will be is a silly "let's multiply all melee damage by X." Sure, under those terms, Galatine/Orthos Prime and so on will be OP. But those terms are a ridiculous position to assume in the first place.

Edited January 11, 2014 by konfetarius

[bobafetthotmail]

Impact damage is mediocre at best, and that still doesn't make it signiifcantly better than what it is now.  The Vectis has a healthy spread of damage types (which, for whatever reason, is slightly focused on Impact, so it easily outdoes the Vulkar) with far more DPS.  The Vulkar is still horribly underpowered.

Not anywhere near as before D2.0 when it was downright trash. Now it's at least usable, before it was not even worth the materials.

 

 

And the fact melee will be overhauled has nothing to do with the Bo being underpowered.  It's underpowered now and it will probably still be overpowered unless something is changed.  Hence why we ask for the change now.

 

Again, it's like how weapons weren't buffed or nerfed at damage 2.0, when they should've been.  The "wait for damage 2.0" mindset was far too prevalent, and fallacious at that.

I'm not saying melee overhaul will fix it, I'm saying that until they do the system overhaul it's pointless to ask for buffs/nerfs as we don't know what direction they are going so what buffs will be actually useful in the new system.

 

 

And also that Galatine is one of the 3 weapons that aren't fashion accessories at mid-high levels, so I don't see why it should be nerfed anyway. Maybe a Mastery Level wall to 4 or so, but nerfing it is nonsense even if they weren't overhauling the system.

Edited January 12, 2014 by bobafetthotmail

[NikolaiLev]

Nerfing the Galatine/etc. at this moment is pointless. You are trying to proclaim power creep by pretending that all melee 2.0 will be is a silly "let's multiply all melee damage by X." Sure, under those terms, Galatine/Orthos Prime and so on will be OP. But those terms are a ridiculous position to assume in the first place.

 

No, it really isn't.  Melee 2.0 won't necessarily put a dent in weapon balance.  This is the same mentality that existed before Damage 2.0 and it got us nowhere.  Underpowered weapons remained underpowered, and overpowered weapons remained overpowered.  Damage 2.0 was not a magical cureall and neither will Melee 2.0 unless we ask for a change.

 

And I never assumed melee 2.0 was going to adjust melee damage, I'm claiming the opposite.  DE seems to prefer the status quo.  That's why feedback is needed that they need to change that.

[Ratiasu]

I like the tiering of gear for one. And balance feedback should be given after M2.0. Before saying you want the tiering gone, in name of the community, you should at least have a poll to see where the community stands. Maybe you're a minority.

[Zardust]

I'm not against the concept of tiering, I'm just irked about what got put into which tier.  The Gram looks so sexy compared to Galatine but performs like crap compared to it.  Same with the Soma, aside from the neat magazine animation it's pretty much a boring bullethose but it's one of the most top-tier weapons.

Edited January 15, 2014 by BLOODGAZMS

[SlightVect]

Galatine is just a prime example of power creep. While being easier to obtain, it outclasses every other charge based weapon around, including Hate which is much harder to get. 

Gotta wait 'til the melee revamp to call "nerf". 

[Serialkillerwhale]

Galatine is just a prime example of power creep. While being easier to obtain, it outclasses every other charge based weapon around, including Hate which is much harder to get. 

Gotta wait 'til the melee revamp to call "nerf". 

Oh yes, because a weapon that's so pathetic you need certain frames to use it is OP, damn thing takes 2.5 seconds to charge before mods.

You have to learn to time it, instead of playing like you'd do on orthos or hate, where you just drop a brick on the melee button

[NikolaiLev]

Galatine is just a prime example of power creep. While being easier to obtain, it outclasses every other charge based weapon around, including Hate which is much harder to get. 

Gotta wait 'til the melee revamp to call "nerf". 

 

No, we don't have to wait.  That was the mindset before Damage 2.0.  Did that address any of the balance issues?  Nope.  The Vulkar and Bo were still underpowered and the Soma and Galatine were still overpowered.

 

Oh yes, because a weapon that's so pathetic you need certain frames to use it is OP, damn thing takes 2.5 seconds to charge before mods.

You have to learn to time it, instead of playing like you'd do on orthos or hate, where you just drop a brick on the melee button

 

That's far exaggerated.  The Galatine does not take 2.5 seconds to charge.  The time to charge it is slightly worse than the time it takes to charge a Gram, and you get over twice the damage when accounting for crit.  It even has superior status on the charge attack, for some ungodly reason.

[ObviousLee]

then don't use it. period.

 it's not mandatory to use galatine. i use Obex, and nothing else, for the AoE and knockdown.

 

i havent used my galatine since i maxed it.

 

galatine is NOT mandatory, so don't use it. that simple.

[Zardust]

It's not mandatory in the sense that we're not literally forced to equip it, but try bringing anything but a Galatine to a Tower III Defence and tell me how that works out for you.  Something like Obex or Kogake or maybe Kestrel might help a bit in that situation since it can knock enemies down, but it ain't gonna be killing much of anything.

Edited January 15, 2014 by BLOODGAZMS

[Kato-san]

What is this necro thread doing here.  We all know all melee weapons need to be good as galatine to be worth using. lets hope they all get buffed to its standard or even better.

[NikolaiLev]

then don't use it. period.

 it's not mandatory to use galatine. i use Obex, and nothing else, for the AoE and knockdown.

 

i havent used my galatine since i maxed it.

 

galatine is NOT mandatory, so don't use it. that simple.

 

Really silly reasoning.  This isn't how games are balanced.

[Eyeless]

Really silly reasoning.  This isn't how games are balanced.

So your solution to balancing things is making it so we have no weapons to take to the ridiculous levels some of us like to go to? 

 

This thread keeps going in circles, it's going nowhere and you aren't doing anything to help find a good middle ground.

 

"Nerf it." "Make everything equally good. Then nerf it." 

 

Clearly the solution to melee and weapon balance in general isn't going to be found here. Please just let this thread die.

[ObviousLee]

Really silly reasoning.  This isn't how games are balanced.

normally, i agree, however there are plenty of other melee weapons that although maybe not capable of the $&*&*#(%& damge( and i will never argue with that fact that the galatine does indeed posess stupid damage) can be effective in their use. just because someone wants to prance around like HE-MAN for the duration of usually a 15 minute or so game, why not? last i checked its not a thrown so its not like it can kill at range.

[NikolaiLev]

So your solution to balancing things is making it so we have no weapons to take to the ridiculous levels some of us like to go to? 

 

This thread keeps going in circles, it's going nowhere and you aren't doing anything to help find a good middle ground.

 

"Nerf it." "Make everything equally good. Then nerf it." 

 

Clearly the solution to melee and weapon balance in general isn't going to be found here. Please just let this thread die.

 

Uh?  I've acknowledged that melee, as a whole, is underpowered.  That doesn't change the fact that if we buff all melee, weapons like the Galatine need to be buffed the least, because as it stands right now it and weapons like it stand far above the rest.

 

When melee 2.0 comes around, the Galatine needs to be brought in line with other weapons, and that's assuming melee is actually buffed and not merely changed.

 

This thread serves to be a reminder to the developers that there is a balance concern.  It needs to be addressed eventually.

[Evan-0-matic]

If they buffed other melee weapons, noone would use guns on lower levels, because melee would go through everything like through butter.  Like you can do right now with Galatine. And only Galatine, nothing else.

That is the dumbest thing Ive read thus far on this forum. My dual ichors have better DPS... Hell, my 2 forma Fang do more DPS! Take an unranked melee weapon to Apollo on Murcery and you can easily go 10-15 using that melee and not die. Get some skill, dude.

[The-Ex-Wife]

This is why we can't have nice things... Cause of people like you -.- 
Pretty sure any melee weapon at low level is op.. When I first started Warframe I loved running around cutting grineer to pieces. But then I started getting into much higher level enemies and melee became useless. Now there is only a few melee weapons I use at high level, one being the dual zoren to zorencopter everywhere. Or the galatine to actually use melee again. The other I am leaving nameless so people like you don't start begging for it to be nerfed. If you think about it. Any gun can quite out par a melee weapon. Seen as infested have been minimized, There is smaller use of melee, so no need for a nerf. 

DE listen. I love ya, but don't you dare nerf my viking sword :3

[Syriiz]

I care because maybe I like to have a choice. I'd love to use something else, but it would be sub-par and I would be just hurting myself by using it.

Also, it is a PvP game now that conclave was introduced.

 

PVP? It's a PVP game now? Are you expecting DE to balance weapons/frames based on PVP experience now? 

It's one of the most ridiculous opinions I've seen on these forums.

You won't use something else because others suck, not because Galatine is OP. Which means buff is needed instead of nerf.

And Dual Ichors is pretty good in case you haven't tried them.