Hydroid Comprehensive Rework

[Prosodical]

I'd like to start by saying, I love Hydroid. From the minute I saw him, I was enthralled (Revenant?). To this day, he is my most used frame and I have the most fun taking him into high level.

What drew me to Hydroid was his ability to cause devastation across entire areas. Crashing rain, writhing tentacles snatching up enemies, and a bottomless pool dragging them down. I loved it, thematically. I hadn't seen so much crowd control before, and that first impression lives on.

So, after hours upon hours playing him and seeing his shortcomings, I have some ideas for improvement. I don't think his numbers need to be tweaked, I think he needs a structural change. His specialty can (and should) remain crowd control primarily, but as it is, he's occupying a very small niche. [Mobile]Defense missions, basically, and we've all heard critics say, "other frames do it better." 

I suggest a few things:

His 1: It needs to strip armor by default and rain begins falling faster. There's a reason Hydroid is not viable at high levels without Corroding Barrage. If everybody always picks this mod, there is no longer a choice to make. Something needs to change.

His 2: While I love the wall of water idea, this ability won't fit with the new kit I'm suggesting. Instead, his 2 could create small Undertows at a distance, that function like water traps.

His 3 and 4: This is where the biggest change needs to happen. His 1 already blasts crowd control over an area, therefore, I recommend His 3 and 4 merge into one ability.

Undertow, while awesome in theory, has limited usefulness in practice; there just aren't many calls to use this ability as more than a panic button. Pumping him full of range until the pool covers an entire room will either leave him bleeding energy, or dealing minimal damage (unless corroding barrage applied). It's not mobile enough. Hydroid is stuck in one spot moving like molasses--he's more like a pool of honey. As with his 2, I love the concept and I've never seen something like it before, but in practice it falls short. I suggest replacing his 3 with a radial acid spray that triggers a slow and a toxin proc (The Blue-ringed octopus is venomous, for instance). This can be by line of sight, like Ember's new 4. With this new kit, Hydroid will be rushing back and forth through packs of enemies. This ability could prove useful. 

Nevermind summoning the Kraken. His 1 already crowd controls a large area, and Tentacle Swarm doesn't nearly reach the range of other crowd control abilities. Rather, Tentacle swarm should TRANSFORM Hydroid into an arthropodal monstrosity, flailing tentacles, able to "swim" through the ground almost as quickly as he can parkour in normal form. You can move freely, at maybe 10-20% slower rate. Jumping would show the Cthulu'esque beast hurling itself over terrain dolphin-style. You can't reach up to the ceiling, but if they're on the ground, they're yours. While not moving, the monstrosity functions like Undertow currently does: a bottomless pool that enemies fall into (except I wanna see thrashing water instead of calm water).

Target-clicking enemies would launch a tentacle, pulling enemies along with him to take continuous damage and crowd control them until Hydroid decides to let them go/ runs out of energy. This way, the latching tentacle actually makes sense. He could peel aggro from allies. He could pull tougher enemies into allies line of fire or abilities, re-positioning the battlefield in true crowd-control fashion. I imagine a dripping, sopping octopus reject surging through the ground with enemies dangling from here and there. This allows Hydroid to be more mobile, while maintaining his dominant crowd control. Plus, this would be freaking awesome (if not a nightmare to animate. Maybe if I ask DE nicely).

This would leave an empty ability slot. I'll now be taking ideas for his new passive.

*Edit: Some have suggested an idea for his passive. Casting his abilities can leave patches of water that randomly cause enemies to slip when walking over them. 

Edited November 16, 2019 by Prosodical

[Ichsuisme]

To start, I agree with the problems you identified. Corroding barrage is definitely needed to make his one feel good to use at higher levels, without the armor strip, the skill is underwhelming. I’m not sure whether that’s this skill’s fault of just armor scaling in WF, but it is an issue. Augments should have a noticeable effect on abilities but the abilities should be able to function well without them against modest leveled enemies. So his one should do more than just provide the cc as it does now.

And yes, undertow is out of place. It’s too slow and its use is impractical. You can definitely build for it but it’s not engaging gameplay. That said, it has those panic uses and I do like having it available, it’s scaling damage is handy.

The third thing I agree with is there’s an opportunity to combine two of his abilities so we can introduce a new ability. You suggested merging his 3&4 but I’d rather kill two birds with one stone: make his second ability: undertow, now — but let us also hold 2 in order to dash forward with tidal wave. Those two skill go together anyway. While in the undertow state, tidal wave should cost 50% less. Then, on top of this, add a movement speed buff on the augment, exactly like how ivara’s infiltrate augment increases her sneak speed; so curative undertow would now provide consistently faster movement. All of this would improve his mobility.

I wouldn’t touch his 4th ability. It’s so classically and recognizably hydroid, I’d be sad to see it changed and it’s pretty well balanced. 

That still leaves his three open. A radial toxin skill wouldn’t be the worst but I’ll suggest something else. Before my suggestion though, just consider vauban’s rework, his new damage ability, orbital strike, is a skill that gets a lot of complaints. Damage is good but hydroid is a CC frame, just like Vauban, so should damage really be a focus? Why not lean further into the crowd control?

So for Hydroid’s three, maybe it’s a simple buff that makes our any of our status effects always apply an impact proc in order to stagger enemies (in turn, taking less damage). Example: I inflicted a slash proc with my weapon, an impact proc appears with it. It could be really effective and also really unique — and because staggering enemies isn’t a long-term crowd control solution, it doesn’t undermine his other CC options, it would only give him some breathing room when facing enemies outside the areas of his 1 and 4.

 

//

as for his passive,  I was thinking something along the lines of Inaros. Instead of being downed then crawling around, Hydroid should be able to move around in undertow for 15-20 seconds (towards teammates who will hopefully resurrect him lol). The suggested movement speed effect on the augment should apply. If you are resurrected by your squad, maybe a tentacle pops out from where you ended up — just as a throwback to his current passive.

 

Glad I haven’t been the only one thinking about Hydroid!

 

 

[Prosodical]

58 minutes ago, Ichsuisme said:

Glad I haven’t been the only one thinking about Hydroid!

You have not been the only one. For sure!

I see your point about the damage ability. Instilling an impact proc on himself/allies sounds intriguing. Might add a bit of team support, and shouldn't require babysitting, so Hydroid can focus on casting his abilities. An impact proc by itself feels lackluster, however. What might it be paired with?

My enthusiasm for tentacle monsters aside (I regret nothing), If he must keep his fourth ability as it is, I agree with you that a movement speed buff on curative undertow has potential. Its mobility is a big concern for me. Furthermore, his tidal wave is supposed to pull enemies along with him when used during undertow, but it doesn't. They pop out of the pool. I'd like that fixed. 

Edited November 17, 2019 by Prosodical
for grammar

[WarRelic]

 Edit: The idea of putting the Kraken in "Undertow" making it "Decoy" to trigger "Grab" looks good in my imagination. (simplified explanation)

Spoiler

(1). Make Hydroids 1 augment part of his 1 ability or add electrical or toxin proc chance to base damage. ( It almost looks like a storm, why not add lightning)

(2). Hydroids 2 ability is fun and great mobility... could have a slash proc added? (keep)  (add shark fins or coral to the animation)

(3). Hydroids (puddle isn't engaging and could be added to his 4)

(Something New, Octopus themed? they have the most survival adaptations of any creature on earth) (active colour camouflage, Ink, all are venomous...)    (could simply be invisibility for his 3. using water to refract the light.) 

(4). Hydroids Kraken could be nested in a pool and actively (grab) pull enemies into the water, giving tentacles mobility within the water AOE footprint.

(Denizen of the deep. One proc Electric,Slash or Toxin on tentacle grab, acts like decoy but grabs shooter as grab trigger)  (The idea is to tidy up the tentacle animation too)

Passive: could be venomous Ink cloud on bullet jump. (blind and toxin proc)

 

Edit: The idea of putting the Kraken in "Undertow" making it "Decoy" to trigger "Grab" looks good in my imagination. (simplified explanation)

It could consume a body every so often to gain another benefit like exuding a toxin proc. or expanding it's pool of influence. The manual grab synergy could be maintained by jumping into the pool.

Then I just think Sharks,Electric Eels,Venomous creatures, The freaky deep sea fish with a light on it's head... a lure... a Decoy.

(Possible synergy, Lighting from Hydroids updated (1) could combine with Toxin from Hydroids updated power (4)  to make Corrosive.)  

(His one could be renamed Storm and tie into the Idea of Poseidon controlling the weather and sea.)

 

[Ichsuisme]

5 hours ago, Prosodical said:

5 hours ago, Prosodical said:

An impact proc by itself feels lackluster, however. What might it be paired with?

 

Lol I guess that’s true. Well, ok, maybe while the buff is active, every impact proc you inflict gives 0.5% added range on your next casted ability. Range on hydroid is wicked important, it defines how useful all his CC is. Adding a secondary way to add range to his build could let people choose not to mod so heavily into range in the first place, opening up new build possibilities — but of course, they could still mod for range and try to get even bigger areas of cc now. There would need to be a cap on that bonus range though, 20%?

As far as augments go, if you hit the 20% range cap, you could trigger another effect for your abilities, just as an incentive to go all the way with it. The missiles from his one rain down more often. His undertow/tidal wave costs less. His 4 gets extra summoned tentacles to now go with the additional area needing to be covered. This could actually make a pretty fun augment.

I think it’d be fine giving the impact status portion of the ability to allies, it offers support to them, but they shouldn’t benefit from any range bonuses — giving nuke frames access to extra range would be game-breaking. For other non-nuke frames, extra range could make them just too strong lol: Nezha, wukong, Oberon, nyx, frost, etc.

5 hours ago, Prosodical said:

tidal wave is supposed to pull enemies along with him when used during undertow. 

I’ve noticed that interaction doesn’t seem to work 100% of the time. This should be fixed, yes.

[Ichsuisme]

2 hours ago, WarRelic said:

 

  Hide contents

(1) add electrical or toxin proc chance to base damage.

(2) Hydroids 2 ability ... could have a slash proc added

(could simply be invisibility for his 3. using water to refract the light.) 

(4). Hydroids Kraken could be nested in a pool and actively (grab) pull enemies into the water

Passive: could be venomous Ink cloud on bullet jump. (blind and toxin proc)

 

I like the creativity behind these suggestions. I wouldn’t have thought of a lot of these. However, I just don’t see it all coming together, personally.

Tidal wave is water but it cuts enemies and leaves a slash proc? The ink suggestion on bullet jump is unique but why should a pirate have access to full on invisibility from his three? Speaking of his passive, toxin and blind for something I do hundreds of times in a mission is really  strong.

the storm suggestion for his one is cool but what would that offer gameplay wise? Enemies are already knocked down but now they’ll also be stunned?

I see hydroid as a pirate and based off all the octopus inspiration, I think you see him as the kraken. So, just saying, if you disagree with my input, it’s probably just because we see him differently, which, in the end, is totally fine.
 

//

did you have any input on our posts?

[AzulMage]

Hydroid main here as well.

It goes without saying but the cast time for all his abilities need to be deceased severely. Seriously, by the time my casts go off enemies could already have been taken care of a number of ways. Additionally, I think the charge mechanic for his 1 and 4 should be removed and the current charge version should be the regular cast version. And yes, I use corrosive barrage in all builds and his 1 is almost pointless without it in later content so I'm all for it being rolled into his 1 at base (I can make an argument for curative undertow also being part of the case ability but that isn't totally needed, more of wishful thinking).

His 2 already provides slash damage and procs but it triggers right at the end of the ability. That being said, his 2 is my least used ability outside of using it in undertow so I'm all for making it part of undertow.

I would prefer for his 2 to be spin on the wave ability and instead be him slamming the ground and and creating a wave/tsunami that emanates from the slam in a circular radius around him pushing enemies away from him and dealing damage (not sure what type. Maybe true damage like his 4?) And knocking them down. That way his 1 can be knockdown in a direction from range and his new 2 can be knockdown in his immediate vicinity. Additionally, it can synergize with his undertow where instead it creates a wave pushing all enemies around the perimeter of his 3 into his undertow so we can capture more enemies

Also, I kind of like his 3 even though many Hydroid naysayers hate it. With faster movement while in it plus using the above idea of working his current 2 into it with reduced cost for even fast movement, we could be a fast moving water trap washing up enemies and drowning them quickly in the battlefield. Yay for watery mayhem

 

Edited November 17, 2019 by (NSW)SantCruz

[Prosodical]

All really great ideas. Man. What to choose. 

@WarRelic I love where your head's at. All really great ideas. As far as the "Storm" on his 1 goes, I agree with Ichsuisme that a shock proc would be redundant, but I have long though the animation itself could be improved. As it is, the rain droplets are supposed to mimic cannon fire (nod to Hydroid's joint status of pirate and watery terror), but I think I'd prefer a rainstorm effect. Like a torrential downpour with flickering lightning. The blast effects could still occur but be subdued in appearance. 

@Ichsuisme I think Hydroid is both kraken and pirate. Word is, he was inspired by Davy Jones from the Pirates of the Caribbean films (loved that character). And Davy jones was very much a cursed pirate. 

6 hours ago, Ichsuisme said:

why should a pirate have access to full on invisibility

I also think it wouldn't be necessary. As it is, he doesn't need the protection of stealth like other frames do. If he's in trouble, just puddle. It's a trouble puddle. Spread that CC instead of worrying about yourself, Hydroid. Jeez. 

 

31 minutes ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

I would prefer for his 2 to be spin on the wave ability and instead be him slamming the ground and and creating a wave/tsunami that emanates from the slam in a circular radius around him pushing enemies away from him and dealing damage

I have some concerns about this. Radial dispersion would separate enemies rather than grouping them together, making it harder to CC them all. People expressed similar concerns over Embers new 3. 

33 minutes ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

Additionally, it can synergize with his undertow where instead it creates a wave pushing all enemies around the perimeter of his 3 into his undertow

This, I like! I've noticed many times enemies that walk into the undertow remain juuuust on the edge, and based on the terrain you're standing on, they may pop in and out of undertow. Something that can scoot enemies that much further in sounds useful, but where would we draw that line? I wonder if another solution might be: Undertow automatically moves captured enemies to the center of it and hold em there. That would eliminate my problem, I think. No more pop ups on the edges.

[AzulMage]

2 minutes ago, Prosodical said:

I have some concerns about this. Radial dispersion would separate enemies rather than grouping them together, making it harder to CC them all. People expressed similar concerns over Embers new 3. 

I think it's more options for what it needed at any given moment. His 3 and 4 already do a pretty good job of gathering and CCing enemies. I don't think all his abilities should accomplish the same goal so one ability that has the option of pushing away makes sense. Gives breathing room when needed and an extra panic button. Plus, with the synergy with his 3, that would create one more way to gather. I rather his abilities accomplish different goals so we don't get in a situation like Vaubans old 3 and 4 where while there were different uses for them on a granular level, for the most part they were used for the same things (hence making them one ability in the rework).

[Prosodical]

17 minutes ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

I don't think all his abilities should accomplish the same goal so one ability that has the option of pushing away makes sense.

You raise a good point, sir! Alright, I'm down for a radial wave dispersion/synergy pull with his 3. Can I get bbq sauce with that?

 

[AzulMage]

5 minutes ago, Prosodical said:

You raise a good point, sir! Alright, I'm down for a radial wave dispersion/synergy pull with his 3. Can I get bbq sauce with that?

 

 

Alternatively, we can have both. Tap to push away, hold to pull in. Both deal true damage. Same effect while in undertow with pull in dropping then in undertow. Call it "Ebb and Flow".

[Prosodical]

49 minutes ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

Call it "Ebb and Flow"

Ooh. Got a rhythmic sound to it. I like it.

8 hours ago, Ichsuisme said:

As far as augments go, if you hit the 20% range cap, you could trigger another effect for your abilities, just as an incentive to go all the way with it. The missiles from his one rain down more often. His undertow/tidal wave costs less. His 4 gets extra summoned tentacles to now go with the additional area needing to be covered. This could actually make a pretty fun augment

I was thinking about this from earlier. We seem to all agree that Hydroid's mobility is a problem. I think we would also agree two (or more) of Hydroid's abilities could be combined smoothly, and this would leave an empty space for a new ability and new augments. Ideas we've had:

2 hours ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

I would prefer for his 2 to be spin on the wave ability

A radial dispersion/pull

10 hours ago, WarRelic said:

(Something New, Octopus themed? they have the most survival adaptations of any creature on earth) (active colour camouflage, Ink, all are venomous...)    (could simply be invisibility for his 3. using water to refract the light.) 

(4). Hydroids Kraken could be nested in a pool and actively (grab) pull enemies into the water, giving tentacles mobility within the water AOE footprint.

(Denizen of the deep. One proc Electric,Slash or Toxin on tentacle grab, acts like decoy but grabs shooter as grab trigger)  (The idea is to tidy up the tentacle animation too)

Passive: could be venomous Ink cloud on bullet jump. (blind and toxin proc)

WarRelic had several ideas here. (Again, well done, man.) I like the idea for a movement-based passive. While cool, summoning a short-lived tentacle with a slam doesn't benefit Hydroid's team as well as I'd like. 

(4) seems to suggest the Kraken could be mobile autonomously within a separate Undertow. Intriguing. Hydroid himself wouldn't be confined to Undertow. What might this mean for his playstyle?

15 hours ago, Ichsuisme said:

So for Hydroid’s three, maybe it’s a simple buff that makes our any of our status effects always apply an impact proc in order to stagger enemies

This has potential. I've long thought Hydroid needs some sort of supportive ability. Hydroid could imbue himself/allies with an impact proc. Many other frames can CC and damage, or damage and support. Why not CC and support?

All great ideas. I'm clapping. 

We've also made many suggestions to improve Hydroid's existing abilities:

His 1 should strip armor by default

Shorten/eliminate charge times

Increase Undertow's mobility

In his Hydroid thread, (I can't figure out how to post the URL) Ichsuisme suggested lengthening Hydroid's passive tentacle spawn time by five seconds, making the Tentacle last longer, and trigger 100% of the time on slam attacks (It's currently at 50%). 

As for improving his existing 4, I vote a simple animation change. People have complained about problems targeting snatched enemies forever. The tentacle flails them about whether living or dead. I say we make a difference. A living enemy, when approaching the tentacle, gets slapped, picked up, and the tentacle constricts them like a snake, holding them relatively still. When that enemy dies, the tentacle tosses them off, and resumes flailing about looking for a new enemy. This would eliminate player confusion of whether a target was already dead, and eliminate the targeting difficulties people have expressed.

Apologies if I missed anyone's ideas.

What do we think?

Edited November 17, 2019 by Prosodical

[Ichsuisme]

There's a lot to respond to here. but let's start off with:

3 hours ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

Yay for watery mayhem

Yay indeed!

 

As far as his third ability goes, I'm not sold on the radial wave that can push/pull. To begin, I'd rarely want to knock enemies away and separate them;  99% of the time, I'd want to group them up tight then kill them all together, which actually sounds fun -- but I think that's moving into Vauban's territory with his signature vortex ability. Nidus can also do it and so can khora but when I think of CC frame that pulls enemies together, I immediately think of Vauban. Although Hydroid and Vauban both fulfill crowd control needs, I'd like to differentiate them as much as possible.  And besides, there's already other grouping methods you can add to your kit: Telos Boltace, Exodia Hunt, Magus Anomaly, Void Singularity in Zenurik, and probably others I'm missing -- point is, there's ways to get that pull effect if you want to add it to your loadout without overlapping even more with another great frame.

 

2 hours ago, Prosodical said:

I've long thought Hydroid needs some sort of supportive ability. Hydroid could imbue himself/allies with an impact proc. Many other frames can CC and damage, or damage and support. Why not CC and support?

I still like this impact idea. It's a CC effect that travels with Hydroid and allies, for those times when you need to [strategically] abandon your CC'ed areas but don't yet need to cast a full-on CC ability. And if his two becomes his undertow and tidal surge ability, staggering enemies might buy you that extra half second you need to pop into the "trouble puddle." Admittedly, I die with hydroid: I don't have defensive mods on all his set ups -- I live on the edge. But I think by consistently staggering enemies, leaning into that CC play-style for survivablity, that's the defense that makes sense for him & that's the way to go.

10 hours ago, Ichsuisme said:

15 hours ago, Prosodical said:

Instilling an impact proc on himself/allies sounds intriguing. Might add a bit of team support, and shouldn't require babysitting, so Hydroid can focus on casting his abilities. An impact proc by itself feels lackluster, however. What might it be paired with?

Well, ok, maybe while the buff is active, every impact proc you inflict gives 0.5% added range on your next casted ability. Range on hydroid is wicked important, it defines how useful all his CC is. Adding a secondary way to add range to his build could let people choose not to mod so heavily into range in the first place, opening up new build possibilities — but of course, they could still mod for range and try to get even bigger areas of cc now. There would need to be a cap on that bonus range though, 20%?

 

Maybe this suggestion didn't hit the mark but I'm open to hearing others suggestions for what a secondary effect could be. I'll list some very quick brainstormed ideas for inspiration:

1. these impact procs strip armor like shattering impact (this might begin to solve the issue with his one?)
2. while this buff is active and you're standing inside the area of one of your CC abilities, you can't be staggered or knocked down.
3. staggered enemies will have their fire accuracy decreased for 4s after recovering (evasion-like effect)
4. staggered enemies will be marked, these marked enemies restore 5 energy if ever gobbled up by undertow (only 5 because it'd be easy to take advantage of -- this would also help with the energy costs of moving around in undertow.)
5. staggered enemies will be marked, your 1 and 4 gain range on cast for every marked enemy within the targeted area. Set up = reward.

I think that's all I can come up with on my own. Looking to hear feedback and what people might recommend.

 

Lastly! 

2 hours ago, Prosodical said:

In his Hydroid thread, Ichsuisme suggested lengthening Hydroid's passive tentacle spawn time by five seconds, making the Tentacle last longer, and trigger 100% of the time on slam attacks (It's currently at 50%).

You are correct, I did. I still stand by that change. Consistency is an issue and I don't want to rely on spamming slam attacks in battle to constantly renew the passive. However, I also suggested in this thread a different passive that kicks in when knocked down, like Inaros and Wukong since this thread is a wider-reaching rework/touch up. I already said that I die while playing him, so maybe this is based off my own needs, but it's quirky and I find that appealing.

16 hours ago, Ichsuisme said:

I was thinking something along the lines of Inaros. Instead of being downed then crawling around, Hydroid should be able to move around in undertow (towards teammates who will hopefully resurrect him lol). The suggested movement speed effect on the [curative undertow / tidal impunity] augment should apply. If you are resurrected by your squad, maybe a tentacle pops out from where you ended up — just as a throwback to his current passive.

Maybe it needs a more self-sufficient aspect to it. Maybe you can revive yourself by collecting 15 enemies before the bleed-out timer expires and without running out of energy. It has the same end goal as Inaros but Inaros is tied to like health %'s and this would be focused on how quick and strategic you can place your undertow to get the necessary number of enemies sucked in. I think it should be more difficult than inaros's passive. Thoughts? Anyone else want to throw in a suggestion for a passive?

Edited November 17, 2019 by Ichsuisme
Typed a word with caps lock on somehow.

[WarRelic]

11 hours ago, Ichsuisme said:

I like the creativity behind these suggestions. I wouldn’t have thought of a lot of these. However, I just don’t see it all coming together, personally.

Tidal wave is water but it cuts enemies and leaves a slash proc? The ink suggestion on bullet jump is unique but why should a pirate have access to full on invisibility from his three? Speaking of his passive, toxin and blind for something I do hundreds of times in a mission is really  strong.

the storm suggestion for his one is cool but what would that offer gameplay wise? Enemies are already knocked down but now they’ll also be stunned?

I see hydroid as a pirate and based off all the octopus inspiration, I think you see him as the kraken. So, just saying, if you disagree with my input, it’s probably just because we see him differently, which, in the end, is totally fine.
 

//

did you have any input on our posts?

The slash proc on Tidal wave (2) was inspired by understanding what happens to people caught and dumped in a barrel onto a reef & shark attacks lots of blood.

The Storm idea was to synergies with a revised Kraken toxin proc to make Corrosive. (It would also mean they wouldn't have to touch [Corrosive Barrage] augment.) It could just as easily be the other way around (Electric eel Kraken and toxic Barrage)

(currently my personal opinion on augments on Hydroid is they're not quite worth it, although really needed) 

I see Hydroid as a patron of the oceans (like Poseidon) in Pirate form,(using him with the Trident from Steel Meridian) I was just trying to show examples of how the elemental procs thematically made sense as he could posses the elemental powers of any and all creatures of the sea. 

(slash poison shock blind camouflage) The current Kraken has Magnetic? 

(watery invisibility as a new 3 was to help with some form of survive ability after losing puddle of breath holding) 

 

 

Comments

I think the impact proc status effect might be on to something too. 

I agree the bullet jump passive was an over the top idea but a lesser form of something like that could be nice. The current slam attack passive is really cool  anyway.

I also agree that Undertow and Tidal surge could become the same skill and are already linked with some synergy.

I'll add as I think...

Was just thinking the way that barrage is cast could be changed so that the area is bigger by default on snap cast and reduced and made stronger, more focused on channel to target Undertow more effectively? 

The Kraken could still use "Decoy" and "grab" in addition to how it already works.

#3 is still a mystery to me using your ideas: (Ebb & Flow): While active Hydroid and allies receive +40% resistance to knockdowns and receive +15% more from energy and health received. In addition every time Hydroids Shields reach zero he releases a radial tidalwave knockdown. Enemies effected by the AOE recieve: staggered enemies will have their fire accuracy decreased for 4s after recovering 

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by WarRelic

[Prosodical]

36 minutes ago, Ichsuisme said:

staggered enemies will have their fire accuracy decreased for 4s after recovering

This is my favorite. Nobody else can do this. We'll say they get saltwater in their eyes, and miss. Ever had that happen? It sucks. I want to see a heavy gunner staggering around, shooting the floor. 

[WarRelic]

Wisp kind'a does it 

but yeah that could be in the 1 with lightning + augment, power house ability.

#3 is the one that needs the most addressing IMO. if it could be added to the Kraken or Tidal surge and a new 3 that'd be my vote. 

(puddle plus grab is cool but sitting in a puddle while your team sweeps the room clear isn't fast enough for this game IMO) giving the puddle to the kraken and jumping in and giving team mates the ability to "grab" as well?

13 minutes ago, Prosodical said:

This is my favorite. Nobody else can do this. We'll say they get saltwater in their eyes, and miss. Ever had that happen? It sucks. I want to see a heavy gunner staggering around, shooting the floor. 

but that's cute and I get your drift. ... Adrift: enemies are suspended upon the Etheral tides in a constant lifted state, enemies hit by impact damage gain +1000% velocity 

[WarRelic]

I keep laughing at the cartoon 😋

Edited November 17, 2019 by WarRelic

[Ichsuisme]

1 hour ago, WarRelic said:

#3 is the one that needs the most addressing IMO. if it could be added to the Kraken or Tidal surge and a new 3 that'd be my vote.  

yeah, @WarRelic, that's what this thread kind of landed on too. Undertow should be combined with tidal surge: tap 2 to go into the puddle, hold 2 to dash forward. the energy cost to use tidal surge while using undertow should be halved too -- that's the standard arrangement now for abilities like that (zephyr & revenant).

 

the new three I suggested should be the impact proc buff explained above in order to easily stagger enemies (therefore taking less damage) and that buff could have a secondary effect. @Prosodical likes the evasion / accuracy secondary effect. I like it too; I really like the comic haha.

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

On 2019-11-16 at 11:48 PM, Ichsuisme said:

 

I wouldn’t touch his 4th ability. It’s so classically and recognizably hydroid, I’d be sad to see it changed and it’s pretty well balanced. 

Hydroid is one of my mains. I like your changes, but the one addition i would like on his 4 though is to be able to damage the kraken head to "anger it" and split damage between all enemies held by the tentacles, like Tornado (for the same reason).

[Ichsuisme]

4 hours ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Hydroid is one of my mains. I like your changes, but the one addition i would like on his 4 though is to be able to damage the kraken head to "anger it" and split damage between all enemies held by the tentacles, like Tornado (for the same reason).

Oh right. Yeah we talked about this in the thread I started. This change still works for me. It would help increase consistency with damage as everything flails around. When you say split the damage, let’s say I hit the kraken’s head for 1000 and 10 enemies are in the tentacles, each one would take 100 damage? Or 1000 damage to each enemy? Or is it a percentage of the original damage, like, idk, 30% of the original to each? I don’t play zephyr much, remind me, how does tornado work?

 

glad you like our proposed changes!

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

8 hours ago, Ichsuisme said:

When you say split the damage, let’s say I hit the kraken’s head for 1000 and 10 enemies are in the tentacles, each one would take 100 damage? Or 1000 damage to each enemy? Or is it a percentage of the original damage, like, idk, 30% of the original to each? I don’t play zephyr much, remind me, how does tornado work?

Honestly, I'm unsure. Zephyr's wiki states that it does distribute the damage, but doesn't have a clear formula for how it does it. It mostly goes on about how it's elemental adaptation mechanic works.

Hydroid's Undertow works similarly though, so it could work like that.

Allied players can shoot into Undertow to contribute 50% of their total damage from weapons and abilities, distributed evenly to all submerged enemies.

Although, being a 4th power, I wouldn't mind if it did a higher percentage of weapon damage but at the same time it does also deal magnetic and true damage on its own. I'd just be happy either way with not having to fight to hit flailing enemies that are grabbed by tentacles behind obstacles in tight quarters while others are shooting at me. Lol

[AzulMage]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

Honestly, I'm unsure. Zephyr's wiki states that it does distribute the damage, but doesn't have a clear formula for how it does it. It mostly goes on about how it's elemental adaptation mechanic works.

Hydroid's Undertow works similarly though, so it could work like that.

Allied players can shoot into Undertow to contribute 50% of their total damage from weapons and abilities, distributed evenly to all submerged enemies.

Although, being a 4th power, I wouldn't mind if it did a higher percentage of weapon damage but at the same time it does also deal magnetic and true damage on its own. I'd just be happy either way with not having to fight to hit flailing enemies that are grabbed by tentacles behind obstacles in tight quarters while others are shooting at me. Lol

I really like this idea. With the right weapon set up (and also if they finally cut down casting speed for his abilities, which is needed) we would be able to actually deal some good damage in addition to CCing. Would this include party members shooting at it? If so, maybe a bit OP? I know the puddle does that too but absolutely no one in the history of me playing Hydroid has ever shot into it even after I tell them to do so

[WarRelic]

For the 4 ability I still like the idea of the Krakens head being a "decoy" drawing aggro like Loki or Saryn can do, but enemies firing at the Kraken -damage the enemies on the tentacles. An augment could be toxin damage is added to the damage inflicted and a synergy could be: (If the Barrage (1).skill got a base shock proc) that could combine with the toxin from the Kraken for corrosive. 

Corroding Barrage augment would still remain the same in that instance. 

If all that is too much work then #one would get Corroding Barrage baked in. Undertow would get baked into Tidal surge. #3 could be a radial knockdown+(x)effect and #4 decoy added to the Kraken and then damage applied from all sources increases the Krakens damage. 

The thing is when damage frames clear the map with a single push of a button how to make Hydroid valid.  

[(PSN)Ozymandias-13-]

9 hours ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

Would this include party members shooting at it? If so, maybe a bit OP? I know the puddle does that too but absolutely no one in the history of me playing Hydroid has ever shot into it even after I tell them to do so

I'd say yes, but maybe not as high percentage as us. Allies have just as much headache (or more) dealing with our grabbed enemies since they can't plan weapons accordingly to make it easier. 

My friends shoot my puddle when I ask, but I make sure i'm nearby and usually at a stationary mission objective.

[Ichsuisme]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozymandias-13- said:

I'd say yes, but maybe not as high percentage as us.

what if it all just scaled with power strength? I like my mod choices to matter and I like having builds that play differently.

The base could be 25% of our direct damage to the kraken applied to all enemies held by tentacles; allies could have 15%. so with 200% power strength, it could be 50% and 30%. If you really wanted to, 300% power strength would get you 75% and 45% You'd have to sacrifice a lot in your build for that, but it'd be doable, and it puts each player in control of how much they want to take advantage of this.

Tbh since hydroid's so focused on CC, I mostly lean towards range, duration, and efficiency. This would get me to throw some power strength on though.