Failing To Keep People Interested...

[101blubb]

Like say the defense mission Olympus on Mars.  Make it actually be on Olympus Mons on Mars.  You have a defensive location on some mountain top base and the enemies attack you.   I remember the Mars mission on Mass Effect 3 and it was awesome because you knew right away you were acually on Mars, not just some generic mountainy, snowy landscape. 

 

That'd cause some problems for Phobos, for example. Phobos is depicted in the game as having an atmosphere, water and all that stuff needed to support life. In reality it's a giant space potato with a diameter of ~20km.

 

Edit: I know, I know. Warframe may be set in a distant future where space magic reigns supreme. It's still nonsensical.

Edited October 2, 2013 by 101blubb

[Tulzscha]

@ChaiVat: 

 

Please use the "MultiQuote" function (it's right beside "Quote") when you need to reply to multiple posts at once. :)

[VER1]

I have seen player activity rise as of late for some reason.

 

We also have to remember this is not a finished game and as it is right now, does not have much substance to keep someone playing the game long term constantly without getting burnout unless they enjoy grinding monotony.

[Beas7ie]

Well said...thanks for the reply.

 

Thank you, I have a ton of these ideas that would greatly improve the game.  One thing would be to make an actual story or explain why we're doing what we're doing.

 

Who are the hostages we're rescuing?  Are they Corpus/Grineer defectors, Tenno without their frames, or something else?  What happens to them when they get rescued?  And why are we really saving them in first place?

 

What about the Orokin cryopods?  They just have some seemingly naked humanoid alien in them.  Is that an actual Orokin?  I doubt it's a Tenno because it seems the Tenno are frozen while still in their frames.  Where do they go after we clear the area of all the bad guys trying to destroy them?

 

What about the people we capture.  All we know is they have information.  What information do they have?  Why are we really going after them?

 

Also why does space not suck people in it.   When we shoot out a window in a corpus ship then enemies need to get sucked out of it.  Their drops can appear next to the hole.  This would be a good way to add a better strategy to use the environment. 

 

Also when we get on these escape pod thingies at extraction and fly away then if enemies are chasing us then they need to be sucked out.  

 

Or did basic physics change in the thousands of years between and when all this occurs?

[Xylia]

You are spot on.  I have been running Xini multiple times a day for 5 months looking for a Banshee helmet blueprint.  I've probably also run Vor a good 200 times, trying to get a Seer Receiver.  At this point, I am dangerously close to quitting the game altogether out of frustration.  I've done everything else the game has to offer: farmed almost all other warframes and weapons (I've got a couple primes left, that's it), soloed T3s and every boss, and I'm at mastery rank 9. 

 

It is unbelievably infuriating to know that your progress is dependent almost solely on luck, and that if you are currently unlucky you are literally wasting your time. 

 

Not sure how you tried "all but a couple" weapons and still are on MR9.

 

*I* am MR9 and I've a lot of weapons left to go. I think MR12 is possible (I think?).

 

But that's just more leeching at Xini/Cyath/whatever than anything.

 

Focus is starting to become the straw that breaks the camel's back for me -- Mod Drop 2.0 made it so that the only two mobs in the game that can drop it are Stalker (LOL!?!?) and Captain Vor (....oi.). No regularly appearing enemy.......JUST those two.

 

And of course Xini.

 

I've killed Vor more times than I'd care to admit, and I've done quite a few Xinis trying for the banshee helmet (which I did actually eventually get, twice even).

 

....and I still do not have Focus.

 

It is a mod that has been in the game as long as I've been playing (I joined during U7) and my friend has like 10+ of them and they drop regularly for him. In fact, during a Void Run with him, one dropped! .......out of a container. But since Containers are still random, all I got was a stupid warframe ability card and he got Focus.

 

That caused me to stop playing Warframe for several days; I'm tired of farming for the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over again and not getting anywhere.

 

How about Ash Systems? Took me nearly 80 Tyl Regor kills to see ONE blueprint, because DE somehow thinks that one should have to kill a boss 50+ times to complete a Warframe.

 

I like how the game plays, the graphics are awesome, the gameplay is fun.... but the grind is making me not want to even bother playing anymore. My only goals are to get Focus, get those new Dojo things (yay for double-farming......) and maybe the last few weapons out of the marketplace, and.... that's it?

 

Meh. Don't really see the reason to even bother; I never get the crap I'm after even when I do try.

 

EDIT: Just remembered I forgot yesterday's daily roll so I got on to do that just now.... Banshee Blueprint. *rolls eyes* Let's not forget I have a fully-made Banshee in my inventory. That makes 30-50 useless "rewards" out of the daily roll in a row.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Xylia

[Rumthorp]

I got into this game because it had the right combination of grind and random content. I like grind. Thank you company that made Warframe and keep adding more stuff for me to collect.

 

Edit: Also I'm not sure why all these vets are saying that after 1000 hours of game play they're just now realizing the game is a grindfest. I played for a few hours and knew exactly what I was getting into and it's why I'm still here.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Rumthorp

[Azure_Kytia]

Game have zero challenge, zero coop or teamplay, S#&$loads of bugs which are dated back to U5. Same loads of useless garbage that only pollutes the game. Grind is not a content.

 

 

FTFY

[rksk16it]

....

Focus is starting to become the straw that breaks the camel's back for me -- Mod Drop 2.0 made it so that the only two mobs in the game that can drop it are Stalker (LOL!?!?) and Captain Vor (....oi.). No regularly appearing enemy.......JUST those two.

 

And of course Xini.

 

I've killed Vor more times than I'd care to admit, and I've done quite a few Xinis trying for the banshee helmet (which I did actually eventually get, twice even).

 

....and I still do not have Focus.

 

It is a mod that has been in the game as long as I've been playing (I joined during U7) and my friend has like 10+ of them and they drop regularly for him. In fact, during a Void Run with him, one dropped! .......out of a container. But since Containers are still random, all I got was a stupid warframe ability card and he got Focus.

 

That caused me to stop playing Warframe for several days; I'm tired of farming for the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over again and not getting anywhere.

....

 

This.

 

This game needs a parallel token based system along with current RNG. Otherwise many players including the guy I quoted and myself will eventually leave at some point when we find another game with a better behaving reward system. Its only a matter of time.

 

Not saying I dont have Focus, in fact I have every mod I need. I am just afraid that someday there will be a mod that I will just not be able to get no matter what I do. A mod or a blueprint or anything like that.

[Valiant]

FTFY

What I find ironic is that DE have mentioned the grind and the farming in quite a few of their livestreams. I remember a pre-U7 livestream. Said something along the lines of:

 

'We're aware of the grinding and farming, we really are trying to move away from that, don't worry we are listening'

 

Exceptionally laughable because I remember noticing how the game became even more of a grind after U7, nothing has changed. Sure resources are more rewarding (as they should have been in the first place) but it's still 'Farmframe: The Grindframe', mod drops seem less rewarding now actually, yet still no solid attempts to reduce the grinding it seems.

 

I'm fine with grinding and farming but not all the time especially when it's straight forward tedious. I didn't mind it on, for example, Diablo 2 because I had a strong challenge in regards to difficulty (if doing it on nightmare etc) in addition to the reward at the end, plus little rewards during the whole experience. Diablo 2 It had more to its grinding experience than Warframe does and the reward at the end of the grind felt better as well. Even then if you were tired of the grind you could easily move on and stop and it felt relaxing just killing and following the story/locations. Warframe doesn't have much in that area to give to make it refreshing at all. 

Edited October 2, 2013 by Naith

[Ganpot]

If this game really 'infuriates' you, there are tons of other free to play games out there.

I don't mean this in a snide 'can I have your stuff?' kinda way, but playing videogames should be fun. If you're not having fun, you should seriously question what you're doing.

Fun fact: people enjoy grinding. Diablo 2 and WoW proved that all the way to the bank. You may not be that kind of person, and should check out other games. Terraria got mentioned in this thread, and its a simply brilliant co-op game.

 

I have a love-hate relationship with this game (as well as most other games).  I'm a perfectionist, and the longer I play a game, the more flaws I will uncover within it.  I love the art design, sound design, and level design of Warframe, but dear god do I hate parts of it equally as much.  In fact, Warframe is one of the most flawed games I've recently played (you can excuse that as being in beta, if you wish).  Almost every major gameplay system has something inherently wrong with it if you look closely enough. 

 

The irony is, I've completely fine with grind (so long as it is not absurd, like in many Asian MMOs).  What I hate is the randomness and lack of progress when the game decides you haven't prayed hard enough to the RNG god.  If I could see that I was making visible progress towards something, then I'd be happy (that's why I have no qualms about the mastery rank system). 

 

I still enjoy playing Warframe.  Cutting people in half with a sword never ceases to be entertaining.  But all of Warframe's flaws are still there, in the back of my mind.  Eventually, those flaws will outweigh the enjoyment of the rest of the game, and I will stop playing. 

 

Not sure how you tried "all but a couple" weapons and still are on MR9.

 

*I* am MR9 and I've a lot of weapons left to go. I think MR12 is possible (I think?).

 

I've collected almost every weapon and tried them out at least a couple of times.  I'm in the process of leveling them up, but I'm not in any particular hurry to do so.  I've already got my favorite weapons (Orthos, Acrid, and Strun Wraith) to level 30, and nothing else is good enough to really replace that setup (except possibly the Orthos Prime or Galatine).  Most of the melee weapons are especially bland. 

 

As of now, all I have left to get is Orthos Prime, Boar Prime, Bronco Prime, Seer, Fang Prime, Braton Prime, and Dakra Prime. 

 

And MR12 is theoretically possible, but I don't think I could quite reach it yet.  If I remember correctly, right now it requires at least 2 of the following: the Braton Vandal, Lato Vandal, and Lato Prime. 

[toxictangent]

It does seem like this game is extremely grind-y, and to be fair it's a better concept than just handing over weapons to the newer players. However, imo the grind system here can be so-unforgiving sometimes. There's a lack of incentive here and tbh it gets really frustrating when you receive so little at the end of a grindfest mission like a defense (Xini anyone?) or a boss. Take this example. I've been trying to farm Nyx for a while, and I can tell you that at least 35% of my runs have resulted in 'Nyx Helmet' and the majority of the rest are fruitless ventures where I get a neurode or 20 plastids for my troubles against Phorid. Is this worth it? There are far better ways of farming both materials, and either my luck is horrible or the RNG really needs some work. I'm still waiting to find that Nyx Systems, and yes I do think I'm going to burnout soon. 

[ChaiVat]

Thank you, I have a ton of these ideas that would greatly improve the game.  One thing would be to make an actual story or explain why we're doing what we're doing.

 

Who are the hostages we're rescuing?  Are they Corpus/Grineer defectors, Tenno without their frames, or something else?  What happens to them when they get rescued?  And why are we really saving them in first place?

 

What about the Orokin cryopods?  They just have some seemingly naked humanoid alien in them.  Is that an actual Orokin?  I doubt it's a Tenno because it seems the Tenno are frozen while still in their frames.  Where do they go after we clear the area of all the bad guys trying to destroy them?

 

What about the people we capture.  All we know is they have information.  What information do they have?  Why are we really going after them?

 

Also why does space not suck people in it.   When we shoot out a window in a corpus ship then enemies need to get sucked out of it.  Their drops can appear next to the hole.  This would be a good way to add a better strategy to use the environment. 

 

Also when we get on these escape pod thingies at extraction and fly away then if enemies are chasing us then they need to be sucked out.  

 

Or did basic physics change in the thousands of years between and when all this occurs?

Great idea's...I did get sucked out of a ship window once shot out...couldn't believe it.  I had to jump onto the ledge though.

[ChaiVat]

I don't think this game is a "grind" at all ( played Lineage 2 for 8 years-that's a grind), I think Warframe is boring, plain and simple.  Redundant, simple, repetative and boring.

[rksk16it]

I don't think this game is a "grind" at all ( played Lineage 2 for 8 years-that's a grind), I think Warframe is boring, plain and simple.  Redundant, simple, repetative and boring.

 

And RNG grind *slightly* adds to the repetitiveness.

 

If I grind one mission in a token based game, I am few tokens closer to my target, so atleast one factor isnt *exactly same* as my last run. If I grind a mission of warframe and didnt get what I was looking for, the situation will be EXACTLY SAME as my previous run(s).

Edited October 2, 2013 by rksk16it

[Wolfstorm18]

Double the drop rates of every item in the game. Thats the first step.

 

Second step is to make dual-mods combining essential mods, and increase the current ones values. So, Vigor should give 360% maximum, Redirection 3600% maximum, Focus 120% maximum, and the Sentinel should have a mod like Quick Thinking which uses his energy to revive the player.

[Beas7ie]

Great idea's...I did get sucked out of a ship window once shot out...couldn't believe it.  I had to jump onto the ledge though.

 

 

That getting sucked out of the ship could also open up new gameplay features like being able to jump out into space and activate mag boots or something to move about outside the ship.  

[Xylia]

I got into this game because it had the right combination of grind and random content. I like grind. Thank you company that made Warframe and keep adding more stuff for me to collect.

 

Edit: Also I'm not sure why all these vets are saying that after 1000 hours of game play they're just now realizing the game is a grindfest. I played for a few hours and knew exactly what I was getting into and it's why I'm still here.

 

There's a difference between a grind, and banging your head against a wall.

 

1). Grind is when you do something you KNOW you will complete in time.

2), Banging your head against a wall is trying to get something to drop that has a <5% chance of dropping: You could do it 10 times and get it, or you could do it 10,000,000 times and still not have it.

 

Warframe has too much of #2 and not enough #1. #1 I can handle. I know I WILL get done eventually, I can SEE my progress. #2? There's no telling and I don't like the gambling aspect of it. I don't like doing things that give me next to nothing for that 1% chance that I might get what I'm after. With #1, each attempt I make at it, gets me Some progress, even if it is very little.

 

Like... farming Plastids. Let's say I need 2500 plastids for a weapon and I get 50-100 per mission. I know I WILL get done between 25-50 missions. Its a long grind, sure! But I WILL get done eventually.

 

Focus? Pfft, I could kill Vor and he might drop it next time. Or I could kill him another 5,000 times and he might not drop it at all. Meanwhile I'm doing missions on a planet that gives no useful resources, and no useful mods other than half-ranked fusion cores that I could get anywhere else and a few piddly credits that are nowhere near worth the time (I could get 5x those credits anywhere else in the same amount of time).

 

EDIT: Caveat: #1 has its limits too. 2500 plastids where the common rate is 50-100 per mission? I can handle that. If it were, say, 5000 plastids at 5-10 per mission.....then I'd say screw it. But I'd much rather that, than to rely on a drop chance off of one mob in the entire game or 1 Defense mission in the entire game both having <5% chance of giving it.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Xylia

[scavenge]

Almost read all posts in this thread :S

 

Some very good points such as the basic lore/mission system where you kinda are achieving something (not just praying to RNG gods).

 

Or like Mars missions should look like Mars.

 

 

Many good points but the grind still helps in giving us "something" to do while we wait for more.

[notionphil]

You are spot on.  I have been running Xini multiple times a day for 5 months looking for a Banshee helmet blueprint.  I've probably also run Vor a good 200 times, trying to get a Seer Receiver.  At this point, I am dangerously close to quitting the game altogether out of frustration.  I've done everything else the game has to offer: farmed almost all other warframes and weapons (I've got a couple primes left, that's it), soloed T3s and every boss, and I'm at mastery rank 9. 

 

It is unbelievably infuriating to know that your progress is dependent almost solely on luck, and that if you are currently unlucky you are literally wasting your time. 

 

This X 1000. It's not a grind, it's a lottery.

[Wolfstorm18]

This X 1000. It's not a grind, it's a lottery.

 

 

Online Casino.

[Delta4575]

What they need to do is rely less on random numbers.

 

For example. If you complete an orokin void mission you will always get a reward. Theres a fair chance of it being rare mods, parts or prime BP's, (Usually upwards of 10% depending on the mission type, level, ETC)

 

And please, reduce/get rid of craft times. They seem to serve very little point other than wasting time.

 

I feel like i'm relying on luck more than skill to get the parts i want.

 

And thinking ahead. Once i get the thing i want...what happens next? Thats right! More space lottery!

 

And once you get all the best gear there isn't much point in playing anymore.

[NalkorRN]

What they need to do is rely less on random numbers.

 

For example. If you complete an orokin void mission you will always get a reward. Theres a fair chance of it being rare mods, parts or prime BP's, (Usually upwards of 10% depending on the mission type, level, ETC)

 

And please, reduce/get rid of craft times. They seem to serve very little point other than wasting time.

 

I feel like i'm relying on luck more than skill to get the parts i want.

 

And thinking ahead. Once i get the thing i want...what happens next? Thats right! More space lottery!

 

And once you get all the best gear there isn't much point in playing anymore.

At least if I spend money on a lottery, I have a chance (a slim one) to win a lot of money in return. To those who spent platinum on fusion core/mod packs, it's unjustifiable with how little you get for how much you spend.

[arch111]

Hi all!

I am not a veteran player and will not pretend to understand how it feels to have every frame, gun and Dojo in the game.

 

However, am a gamer since I was a kid and I know when something is broken. And this game is broken. Its so sad to see all the rage, misstrust, unhappiness, confusion on this forum.

 

I think we all can agree the universe is fantastic. The artwork is great. The action is cool, if primitive. The warframes themselves a fresh take on the action-hero.

 

So why is the game not working after a year in production? From what I see the vets writing its that basically the game is the same as it was since closed Beta. The mechanics are the same, the action the same, the frames the same, the enemies more or less the same.

 

Whats lacking then?

 

***************************

Could everyone please answer what you think would make the game better, and will let it survive? I see alot of comments about wf not working, but not so much about how to fix it.

 

***************************

 

My views are the following.

 

Story Mode. Every Boss level has a Story Mode, we have no say in this. We are supposed to impact the galaxy by what we do, but this is only words. Why? Because its not a persistent chaning world. It is a boss made for killing 1000 times for loot.

 

This system is Warframes Core, and to change that would mean to change the game. Im pruposing instead to add a story mode per Planet.

 

That means that like Bossmaps each location has a story mode. It can be played like today like just another mission. OR it can be played as a cohesive, connected Chapter.

 

A Survival map can have a story behind it, the data we collect from a Spy mission can have a purpose and lead to another map in the game. Resque missions can detail who the target is, and why we need to get him.

 

At the end of each map a summary binds the game together, similar to a single player RPG, or action game like Darksiders for that matter.

 

For me this would make the game more fun to play, especially if the story-arcs were random like everything else in the game.

 

The game would be the same, but by clicking Story Mode you can play 6 maps in a row that connects to each other in a story-arc. The Chapter / Quest ends in defeating the boss or Defence or Extermination and rewards with cumulative XP rewards and mods.

 

*****************

 

There is a thread about a similar setup called CELLS, but this way is smoother and requires less work on DEs. part.

 

I´d love to get your thoughts on this. Do you think this could add to the value of the game? Or any other great improvements you can think of. :)

[neKroMancer]

I highly doubt that adding lore and story will make things more interesting.

In several occasions, I have been posting comparison between Warfame and other lootfest like Borderlands and Diablo. There are several interesting points that could be reason why Warframe feels lacking in term of gameplay. However, number one problem is lack of replayability.

1. Lack of build.

- While Blizzard and Gearbox forum have dedicated subforums for each character and how to build it, Warframe doesn't have that. This problem is big due to the fact that build is replayability for each class. Change how you play and offers you new experience is the purpose of build in ARPG. Warframe has 10+ characters but none of them offers replayability in a satisfactory fashion.

- Lack of skillset. Each frame has just 4 powers to use and that's it - Nothing more. Diablo offers lots of abilities, both passive and active to cater our playstyle. BL2 gives you one active skill for each class but with enough variations through passives and game changers to create new way to play with the skill.

- Lack of viable offense and defense choice. Playing Warframe for a while and you're likely to realize that shield is life and health is meaningless. Parry is next to useless. Gun reigns supreme and melee is gimmicky. Power has no proper scaling.

2. Lack of loot.

- Many will disagree with me on this but Warframe is Diablo2 with nothing but socketable items and runes to fill these holes in your sword. It's not "exciting" lootfest since you get the same mods over and over again. BL2 hands you a new gun practically every 15-30 minutes and let you try new stuff all the time. Diablo use weapon tiering that tied to area where it is spawned (plus it offers boots, amulet, rings, armor, and whatnot to keep you hooked for a while).

- Loot should change how you play the game and give the game more depth and replayability. Not just artificially prolonging the game's life (which is undoubtly another facet that is the purpose of loot. However, it's less important than depth and replayability).

3. Lacks of things to shoot and challenge.

- This is pretty much glaring problem since I joined Warframe since January. The game is repetitive because there is not enough thing to kill and require no learning curve at all. Comparing his aspect to fully developed games like Diablo and Borderlands and Warframe is extremely lacking. I don't feel that playing Pluto is different from playing Mercury or Venus. I get the same fun playing no-shield frame in starting planet comparing to playing fully developed frames in lategame level. It offers on incentive to move away from starter level in term of fun and challenge.

4. Progression feels ... Unprogress.

- Warframe progression offers basic stat upgrade and mod point. However, the true progress lies in mod system which, as we all know, tied to RNG system. No vendor in the game selling redirection, serration, etc to the player. At least Diablo and BL have vendors that sell these stuffs which level with player as a low grade replacement if need actually arise.

Storyline? Pfft. It's pretty much to cosmetic addition to the game. How many of us actually care what Rolan is saying or what Kain is mumbling after the first playthrough? Sure, it gives the game personality but it won't help if the gameplay is lacking.

[arch111]

I highly doubt that adding lore and story will make things more interesting.

Storyline? Pfft. It's pretty much to cosmetic addition to the game. How many of us actually care what Rolan is saying or what Kain is mumbling after the first playthrough? Sure, it gives the game personality but it won't help if the gameplay is lacking.

 

Ok, lets say DE actually releases a Mod-map tool. To create user content, maps and missions. They talked about this ona livestream, not seen anything since then.

 

IMO this is what we could make use of. Make the game our own so to speak.