Failing To Keep People Interested...

[arch111]

If each frame had a story it would be fulfilling.

If it ment something to collect frames beyond having a stable it would be great.

If missions somehow had a Grand impact on the system, not o no, prices go up!

But something else, like unlocking secrets, new map types etc.

Would it not be cool if the actions of the players had a impact?

Oops, corpus invaded mercury. Vor is dead. A new boss is in play.

what? Infested are taking over our dojo?

Oops, only some weapons now work on some enemies! Omg, i have to team up and choose gear like in a Team.

Just dreaming i guess ...

[ChaiVat]

 

This should enter the conversation. Even if it's something that DE should see.

Did you make that video?  I watched the whole thing and you (or whoever made that video) is spot on!  Thanks for the reply.

[ChaiVat]

Re-posting this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaXUrITNFjs  The guy in this video says it all.

[ZWarhammer]

Games are for fun and enjoyment and while warframe is fun it also gets boring really fast because the grind never ends.

[theammostore]

Did you make that video?  I watched the whole thing and you (or whoever made that video) is spot on!  Thanks for the reply.

I didn't make it, I just found the video. But thanks for watching it, (thread's starting to derail into mass effect I think). Hopefully people get back on topic.

[ChaiVat]

I didn't make it, I just found the video. But thanks for watching it, (thread's starting to derail into mass effect I think). Hopefully people get back on topic.

Hahaha, yeah, there's a tad slippage here n' there...topic will likely regain relevance  :)

[Ganpot]

Problem with using events as lore is the fact that it's fire&forget. Veterans are content with the path they chose in the past and feel that their decisions matter. New players, on the other hand, will be left in the dark without any context and feel that the event is not particularly meaningful to them.

 

Actually, new players will (or at least should) be given context through the lore entries which are added after every event.  Not to mention that a new event will be happening probably every 3 weeks or so.  New players won't have to wait long to start feeling like a part of the in-game universe, and to be honest it will take players a little while before they are ready to dive into the backstory and various lore tidbits.  Well-made stories in video games aren't thrust upon the player all at once; they are drip fed to players so that they can adjust and figure stuff out on their own. 

 

 

Guild Wars 2 wants to speak with you.

However for the rest of your post (I won't be THAT person)..

I'm still hoping for some sort of campaign with cutscenes, but I love my japanese games so cheesy stories are just my thing.

I do like the idea of the community molding the lore and world (or Solar System in this case) through events though. Reminds me of what GW2 does with its living story, but in our case it could much larger scaled. If this is the route DE decides to take so be it, just keep my lore tab updated with pretty diorama.

 

As someone who experienced a fair bit of Guild Wars 2's personal story, I would like to say that it was complete and utter trash.  In fact, I'd say it was one of the worst stories in any game that I can remember (and that includes other MMOs such as WoW and Rift).  The first 20-ish levels vary from good to mediocre, but after that everything takes an absolute nose-dive.  Honestly, the fact that the developers seem proud of their story actually offends me.  It is one thing to make a terrible story, but it is something else entirely to make a terrible story and then lack the self-realization to not be ashamed of it. 

 

*Ahem* Anyway, back on topic.  A better example of a story-driven MMO would be The Secret World or The Old Republic.  However, those games very clearly demonstrate that such an approach does not work.  There are two major and almost insurmountable problems.  The first problem is that an MMO never ends.  You can't ever finish the story.  Nothing can be permanently resolved, because you have to keep adding onto the story in order to keep people playing the game.  The Galactic Republic will never beat the Sith Empire (or vice versa), because the entire game is dependent upon the status quo. 

 

The second problem is branching paths.  Branching paths take a lot of work even in self-contained, single-player games.  For every branch you create, you theoretically multiply the amount of work you need to do.  But in an MMO, those branching paths will continue to grow and grow for as long as new content is being developed.  Every time a new piece of content is added, players will expect both more choices, and for a whole host of past choices to influence the game in meaningful ways.  That simply isn't possible.  A developer would need to exponentially multiply their staff with each new expansion, and each expansion would still take longer than the last.   The only way around this is to make the choices themselves meaningless by having them effect almost nothing whatsoever.  Both The Secret World and The Old Republic do this in their own way. 

 

In essence, the choices in both games are merely an illusion; the plot is determined right from the start, and you are on rails the entire time. 

[arch111]

Actually branching is not needed.

The Cells idea is the best hope for the current system.

That is like quests with a storyline, enemies, loot.

Anyone who played pen and paper rpg knows what i mean.

But the starmap have unused potential imo. The powerstruggle still has no impact beyond events. The infested have not spread, or been fought back.

I guess its really that we have no world we exist in, just a map and chat.

Mmorpgs lets you go to a area. It is visually obvious.

Here we only see dots , its so abstract.

[NalkorRN]

Hahaha, yeah, there's a tad slippage here n' there...topic will likely regain relevance  :)

That is Wrel from the PS2 boards, he's a big guru who's respected by a lot of the fanbase.

[ChaiVat]

That is Wrel from the PS2 boards, he's a big guru who's respected by a lot of the fanbase.

Ahhhh, neat  :)

[merryfistmas]

The fact that your actions don't make a difference is what will probably make me burnout soon. "The Death of Tyl Regor has struck a huge blow to the system". That's great, now how does that actually effect the game at all? It doesn't. I can raid a 100,000,000 corpus ships but it doesn't actually make a difference in the game.

 

rng + grind + more rng + more grind = burnout

This doesn't help either.

 

I guess its really that we have no world we exist in, just a map and chat.

And this. I don't feel immersed in the warframe universe. I feel like I'm grinding. The other players don't feel like Tenno, they feel like other people logged in to some sort of online chat.

Edited October 4, 2013 by merryfistmas

[arch111]

Ive wondered about the meaning behind the story since i started.

I get that this is a instance dungeon game. But at the same time the very core of the game is about

Danger and war, awakening anscient warriors.

If this is just 4 ppl playing survivor maps, then why have a story?

I suspect there is a story written, but that it is hard to implement.

[ChaiVat]

Wow, awesome feedback.  Hopefully the Developement folks will take notice and personally address this thread.

[Xylia]

The fact that your actions don't make a difference is what will probably make me burnout soon. "The Death of Tyl Regor has struck a huge blow to the system". That's great, now how does that actually effect the game at all? It doesn't. I can raid a 100,000,000 corpus ships but it doesn't actually make a difference in the game.

 

Well, to be fair, all MMOs are like this.

Everybody can kill the same boss, many times.

 

But major bosses, the Story WILL be updated and you can "Re-live" the story by going back and doing it again.

 

But yeah, in Warframe..... I've killed "Tyl Regor" (and his many perfect clones) nearly 100 times to get a blueprint. There's no.....immersion there.

 

They could, I don't know.... the game's format makes it difficult to really do on-going story outside of a few events (that Fomorian/Arid Fear thing was awesome tho the actual events themselves coulda used some work).

 

There's a huge "LORE" section in the game, but.... it hasn't been touched in months. I think it is time to go there soon, and add each boss and what the effects of killing it at least once is. Make it so that each boss's entry fills in once you kill it. "Tyl Regor is now dead, blah blah blah" perhaps an intercepted message from the Sisters talking about Tyl's (and other bosses too!) death or something, kinda like Vor's message to the Sisters about the player being wounded and how he's hunting them on Mercury.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Xylia

[arch111]

Yes, even tiny things storywise is better then none in my book.

[arch111]

Since the past of the system is still untold, the Tennos focus is to save their brethren, and take back Origin.

This combined with being hunted - this should be more of a threat. Tenno fear nothing, because they risk nothing.

The infested are spreading to the Orokin derelicts, who knows what they might awaken?

One way of having a living world is to have the powerstruggle real.

Other games do this by determening wich faction has ownership of a world.

By acheiving goals, or failing, results in map changes.

A story can be tied to this, new events alerts and new locations added as needed.

What i am suggesting is ;

Remember that siege on Pluto? It was so awesome when that famorian showed up! Man that missoon to leave the planet before it exploded was so awesome!

And the boss fight in the infested reactor core in the famorian, knowing we had no revives, man what a rush!

That kind of thing. You have bragging rights, and get trophies or some such, perhaps even Tenno ranks.

Would be awesome!

[HAYABU5A]

interesting, been noticing player activity is decreasing recently more and more

[arch111]

Ok, so the suggestions so far is,

More story and Lore

More unique locations

Replayability

Better information from de

Better rng and grind

Cells

[notionphil]

Ok, so the suggestions so far is,

More story and Lore

More unique locations

Replayability

Better information from de

Better rng and grind

Cells

 

Thanks for the shoutout for the Cells idea.

 

If anyone hasn't read Cells, its an idea for multi-mission story arcs for a squad of Tenno, with real challenge and a guaranteed risk->reward mechanism. The discussion at the end of the thread ties into a replayability - adding the basis for a really simple achievement type system; what nightmare mode should have been.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/63428-cells-this-is-warframes-endgame/

 

We definitely need Cells or some other sort of lore/quest type mechanic IN the game, not in a database/once a month episode.

[FoxyKabam]

read most of the tread if this was said somewhere down the line ignore me

 

better level design would make this game for me

all I ever do is A to B

drop the way points for A to B, let me earn them

make hacking mean something, Doors let me lock and unlock them, lights let me break or turn them off for stealth, lock those grineer in a room and turn off the air, way points/map data

if i have an enemy radar let me see their lines of sight

 

if I'm in a ship make it feel like a ship where is the captains room, the med bay, security hub ect. hell add in some mini bosses

there a small parts of this on the mining station, but it could just go so much farther

 

the random level generator just doesn't feel random, if i see this tile I know its going to connect to this one and where the right way is

the door to the objective is always this way

[arch111]

read most of the tread if this was said somewhere down the line ignore me

 

better level design would make this game for me

all I ever do is A to B

drop the way points for A to B, let me earn them

make hacking mean something, Doors let me lock and unlock them, lights let me break or turn them off for stealth, lock those grineer in a room and turn off the air, way points/map data

if i have an enemy radar let me see their lines of sight

 

if I'm in a ship make it feel like a ship where is the captains room, the med bay, security hub ect. hell add in some mini bosses

there a small parts of this on the mining station, but it could just go so much farther

 

the random level generator just doesn't feel random, if i see this tile I know its going to connect to this one and where the right way is

the door to the objective is always this way

I agree. The tiles obviously need more diverse sections and variation.

I too would love to have bridge, Captains quarters, armory medbay, rec room etc.

Grineer have hangarbay, reactor, engineroom, prisoncells, and vip map room.

Just build onto whats there, and add in some interactive bits.

[ChaiVat]

interesting, been noticing player activity is decreasing recently more and more

Bigtime!

[arch111]

Bigtime!

Ok , but. Noticed how?

[Mountain_Dew_Camacho]

need something to do besides wait for a mission/run mission

 

think about GTA or APB... you can play for hours not doing any missions and have fun socializing, driving around, doing random things.

 

the problem here is that the mission instances are the only corridor.

 

i wouldn't mind if random maps i try to initiate hardly ever populate...

[ChaiVat]

Ok , but. Noticed how?

Whatya mean, "notice how"?  There are only a couple of ways to "notice" a lack of players...for one, there are 40 people in my clan and hardly anyone logs in anymore, the 'recruitment' and 'region' chat is quiet and my regular 'friends list' of over 200 people is dead, lucky if there are 2-3 people on at one time lately.