I Find Myself Becoming More And More Bitter As The Days Progress

[Inez]

Nugget has been bitter a long time. This is nothing new.

To address some of your issues:

If the price is high, don't buy it. That is one of the laziest attitudes I have ever seen

You can farm everything in warframe. Its not lazy.

They didn't just shorten the void grind. They outright removed it, which was stupid. They should have put out a concrete solution, not given players the ability to instantly bypass what little content Warframe has. I'm all for reducing grind, but DE did not handle this right at all

They outright removed it if you spend lots of plat. You still have to level them. And there's still lots of other weapons and frames in the game. Once again, the void (and the entire game) is just a measure of how much time you spend in the game. Buying primes saves you time. You still have the choice to the do the content. The choice has not been removed. But if you're whining about how grindy the game is, being able to buy your last Orthos Prime Blade is a huge win.

No. No it does not. There are over 120 weapons in the game. ~10 of those are unique. The rest are as generic as they come. In regards to melee 2.0, look at the post date of my thread. I had no details of melee 2.0 at that point

If you seriously think UT with its 12-13 weapons has better variety than Warframe, well, there's not really any point in discussing this then.

I never said that min/maxing was unique to Warframe. However, Warframe has no viable choice other than mix/maxing. Other games at least have viable builds that offer an alternative. Warframe does not

Once again, if you played any other videogames, you would realize that people say the same thing as you. "There are no other viable options! You must min/max!" Warframe is a very casual game, there is absolutely no requirement to min/max.

Not a single word in that section was a lie. Try again

You said "The name choices of Carrier and Nova, and the power choices of Carrier were almost universally disliked." Carrier was disliked by most, Nova disliked by a good portion, but Carrier power was liked by many. I know that a couple community mods and a few other went on a posting campaign blasting the Carrier power, so there were lots of 'posts' disliking the power, but most people liked it. And as you see today, Carrier is by far the most popular Sentinel.

Your shortsightedness is not appreciated. I wrote that section after doing a few Vault runs when they were new. Plenty of people were complaining about them, the only reason they still aren't, is because people have forgotten.

After doing a few vault runs you thought there was a timer? And you thought hobbled and extingusihed were horrible drawbacks? That's pretty useless feedback.

No S#&$ I'm "whining" about these cores. They are @(*()$ horrible

You complain ranking mods is too hard, and now its too easy. Sounds like you just want to complain.

 

 

i just wanna point out two things Inez.

 

Platinum is ingame currency introduced by DE. which means value of this currency is zero. So don't be silly about this "money talks" thing.

That's still 2 and a half reactors/catalysts they gave us, saving us plat. Long winded speeches for apologies are one thing, giving us something of actual value is another. The only reason anyone would say the value of plat is zero is if they no longer play the game.

Legendary Core. You can level any mod in this game by using that core. Given that you had steel charge of rank 6. So months ago i leveled my second Heavy caliber for sentinel to max. It took 3 days of grinding. 1.4m credits and 1300 cores of all kinds. But as it now you can level r10 mod for a price of u6 mod.

And this thread was whining about how ridiculously hard it is to max out rank 10 mods. And now its easier. And you're still here whining.

And its still costs a million credits to trade for one. So unless you were on during the exact 4-6 hour window to take advantage of this, you're still looking at a million credits.

For the record, I have none of these Legendary cores, as I was at work at the time. And I have already leveled all the useful rank 10 mods to max. I still don't see how it hurts me that other people have less grind now in leveling their mods to rank 10. But I guess for you it devalues your 'sense of accomplishment.' Am I correct about this? You should really play videogames to have fun, not to give your life meaning. And you can still feel 'accomplished' that you ranked all those mods to rank 10 before Legendary Fusion cores.

I too had a second max HC but sold it for plat once DE nerfed Sentinel dps. If I ever need a new one for an upcoming sentinel, it will be much easier to make. I'm not sure this is a problem.

[Noble_Cactus]

If anything, the UI stream today left me feeling a little bitter. Especially because most of what they said amounted to, "We could have done that... but it was too difficult/made things too cluttered." That just reeked of lazy, or more likely, time mismanagement. The fan mockups they showed, while not perfect, were leagues better than what we have now and accomplished the whole game world immersion dynamic better.

 

What ticked me off, though, was their comment on ability timers. Being able to see the duration on your friends' buffs and your buffs is critical in an ARPG. It's what allows you to keep track of your ability rotations (or in this game, when to press 2 or 4 again). We deal with having to go by gut instinct when Blessing or Sonar is going to run out, but it'd make player lives far easier if we had visual clarification so we're not second guessing ourselves in a life-or-death situation.

Edited February 22, 2014 by Noble_Cactus

[Luminati07]

And this thread was whining about how ridiculously hard it is to max out rank 10 mods. And now its easier. And you're still here whining.

DE didn't make it "easier", they @(*()$ removed it completely.

 

I guarantee you that when players complained about Rare 10 mods being atrocious to level up, they didn't want DE to let them instantly bypass everything.

 

I can't take people who say "people complain about it, now it's easier, and you still whine". It's such a lazy attitude to have, and obviously very shortsighted.

[grillv20]

DE didn't make it "easier", they @(*()$ removed it completely.

 

I guarantee you that when players complained about Rare 10 mods being atrocious to level up, they didn't want DE to let them instantly bypass everything.

 

I can't take people who say "people complain about it, now it's easier, and you still whine". It's such a lazy attitude to have, and obviously very shortsighted.

 

I'm pretty sure that you have the option of not playing the game. Just do what I do with this game when I run out of stuff to do. Find something else to do. Its not hard and it makes lots of sense. Just stop playing. Keep an eye on the game and when it interests you again play it. If it doesn't interest you again just stop playing all together. At the end of the day its just a game and if you don't like the direction the game is heading then don't play it. Its simple. I dropped FF14 recently after doing all that I wanted to do. I may or may not play it again. I'm not missing it currently...so yeah. lol 

[adoomgod]

Hey Nugget, great thread. It's actually what inspired me to make one of my own, but I won't derail this.

 

I just want to say I agree with pretty much all of your frustration, though perhaps have a bit more tolerance for grind than you. (I agree that the game still relies too heavily on it though)

 

My main disagreement is actually your belief that this game won't hold the PS4 users and will plummet out of existence if it keeps going in the wrong direction. 

 

I think you've sadly underestimated the general populace's tolerance for grind and monotony, especially if it's dressed up well with shiny graphics and aliens... and boobframes. The average human being is not as eloquent or articulate as yourself and does not think the way you do. This has pretty much always been the case. People are pretty satisfied with slightly above mediocre escapism.

 

I think the real risk is less DE going under and more, Warframe being a shadow of what it could have been. Though I don't think anyone in DE wants that so I'm keeping faith for now. I'm really hoping that after they are done making each planet have it's own tileset that they start focusing on cooler stuff.

[EvilKam]

Wow...  Nugget_, that is a lot to digest.  As a fellow long-winded poster, I appreciate the hell out of your effort.

 

First, ignore the trolls.  All of your points are pretty good, even if I disagree with some of them.  The idea that you "don't play the game" looks very far-fetched to me, you seem to know too much about the game to "not play it".

 

I guess I'll just hit key points that I can comment on, assume that I've no opinion on the points skipped.

Many platinum items are overpriced.  I find myself still astonished that people will pay for any of these frames in game, instead of the 20 plat for a slot.

 

The resistance mods are gobS#&$e worthless.  They should be removed, except Laser resistance.  I NEEDED that when I hit Jupiter.

 

Tenno movements are clunky.  I hate that "flip" my ninja does over a ledge.  IT's so freaking slow looking.  Yeah, flips are "neat".  So what?

 

Weapons aren't that terrible.  Sure, they lack the intense differences felt between weapons in UT or Doom, but you can't craft that sort of individuality, I think, in a game that offers a wide selection of guns.  DE really does need to go over weapons again though, and some things need a buffing.  "Plas-meh" sword comes to mind.  It's a FREAKING PLASMA SWORD!  THIS SHOULD BE ONE OF THE MOST AWESOME THINGS EVER.  It's a weapon, it's a sword.  It's PLASMA!  I can build one, but who cares?  My Magistar is already better on paper.  My magistar doesn't even have blinking LED lights.

 

For all the choices we have in mods, we don't have a lot of choices.  10 slots, 4 are powers, Vitality and or redirection needed, can't live without streamline really.  That leaves us with 3 mods to select unless we negatively polarize something in a power slot.  AND WE DO!  And who honestly would ever consider voluntarily dropping Serration from their rifle?

 

I'm not part of Design Council, but from what I've read, it's like the HHGG entry on Earth:  "Mostly Useless".

 

Disagreement:  Mutagen samples don't actually bother me.  I am fine with running a derelict mission to get the rare derelict materials.  To me, that's a valid mechanic.  You want that cool thing?  Well, you have to go through the doorway of Voidness to get the parts to even find the spot to get that thing.  Of course, since I started WAY after you, I made it to the Derelict before needing mutagen samples was even on my radar.  I literally found one and thought, "What the hell is the point of this?  Oh well, I'm sure I'll find a use for it someday.  it looks kinda ugly".

 

The new player experience needs an overhaul.  I wrote a tutorial that, in my opinion, is top-notch.  I didn't notice that someone had done it first on Players helping Players.  Theirs wasn't bad, just different.  Mine tackles topics that came up mostly "in the order that I would have needed them as a new player".  DE, if you read this, please, let's work something out here.  I am so exhausted from answering new player questions in region chat.  There are so many new players, and I'm only one guy.  And "check the wiki" is becoming my default answer, and it's kinda harsh for me to say that.

[CBAROG]

Sorry in advance. If you see mistakes point them out to me. English is not my native language.
Well, I haven't been playing for very long like most of you, guys, but I see already the problems that Nugget points out. +1000 to him. As I don't see ANY arguments that can justify DE's actions.  As all who defend them say "Accept or GTFO". But I want to play Warframe. I lke it's setting, I like the gameplay(it's core, not the tedious and repetitive missions)
At first I enjoyed the game. Then the Venus crashed me. I didn't know anything about different types of damage as it was NOT covered in tutorial at all. And it still doesn't. Had to figure everything on my own. I joined before the U12 so (text tutorial inside the codex is, in my opinion, very stupid. As it is now it's very easy to miss. ) I had to browse the Wiki to find the info. So had to spend more time not playing but reading.  
As I see this the game is not free-to-play. It's not even pay-to-win. It is pay-to-play.  U12 was a kick in the face. I don't want to HAVE to join a clan. I don't want to HAVE to build a dojo on my own. Some say that it is to get rid of RNG (for me it's like RS#&$G). But if it needs such a solution then the system is broken itself.
I like to get the BP by beating up a boss. But after that the boss is unneeded. The boss fights are not interesting enough to make me want to beat him/her/it again. With a team the boss simply gains more HP. But then again it's the problem of Warframe because it doesn't require teamwork at all. I like the concept of Grineer tank as an endgame boss. I would want to grab some my friends and have a fight with it. But it seems DE don't want to extend concept of bosses being bullet sponges with some invincibility phases. The squadmates are just more firepower. (Oh, I forgot the "revive the downed mate" thing. Great teamwork required.)
So what is the reason I write such things? The answer is simple. I don't see how it is multiplayer at all. There is no reason to bring your friends here. I don't see the need in teamwork at all. The only difference between solo and online is that there are three more guns with you. Good example with FFXIV. You don't work as a team? You die. In Warframe the only difference between solo and online is that there are three more guns with you.
This is just my personal opinion. I agree with Nugget completely. Because in two months I play the game I haven't seen things that real ly improve the quality. It's always quantity. Of course lots of weapons if good but when it's all there is... No real goal, just "get them all". Pokemon does it better. The art and setting will not get the game far.
We don't know if the DE know about these problems because they don't say anything. Just take a look at most of Early access games. There is a goal for developers to achieve. There is (often) a roadmap that the gamers can look at and say "I want to pay for this and help them"
I don't want to sound bitter but do DE know what the game will turn into? Do they have a set goal (I'm talking about a roadmap of some sorts.? Or do they just think that Warframe is complete and it is alright to just add new weapons, skins whatever. Please, DE work on existing things, they DO need improvement. We can wait for new weapons. Just make the existing ones better. Secondary fire will be appreciated. Difficult bosses will be appreciated (not just more HP, please). Teamwork will be HIGHLY appreciated.  Because now I don't say to my friends "Hey, let's play Warframe". I'd rather invite them in L4D.
And I haven's said anything about awful grind. And LOTS of other problems. 

Thanks for reading. I'm open to criicism. 

[Althix]

well there is a teamwork in this game. however you need to play at least one hour to see that. as example when i say "two seconds", rhino in my team is using stomp, while enemy is in the air i have time to recast blessing. however you can't see any kind of teamwork on basis of regular content, and to abuse the game to have some fun or challenge is not the way to go.

[xKagashi]

o.o, right on point

[NalkorRN]

All aboard the hate train! It has no brakes!

 

I am so glad I quit playing as Frost. Not just the awful change to snow globe, which hurts viability in late game, but now this:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/189393-frost-ultimate-delay/page-2#entry2208518

 

You know what? It's too coincidental, that Frost is essentially neutered when a Rhino Prime gets announced/released. They stealth-nerfed a subpar ultimate even further and aren't even acknowledging it on the updates thread, but one of the devs happily pointed it out as being fixed in the thread I linked. Like with RNG, it's like DE has no idea how to actually fix frames these days.

[Noble_Cactus]

"Thanks guys, we fixed it."

 

I feel bad for saying this, but with this game that's like a death knell.

[Nazakuu]

I read your novel, and while I do disagree witg you here and there (idc bout legendary cores, leveling rare10 mods isn't my idea of entertainment), you make one very important point.

THIS IS A BETA.

try S#&$ out! If RNG has truly been an issue for as long as you claim (no reason not to believe you) then why not try tokens?

Even if it utterly fails, at least there would be a legitimate attempt at fixing the problem. Just roll it back if it doesn't work.

Damn dude.

I dont mind that you can trade prime BPs (I still just sell em for credits) but that its clearly just another dilution bandaid.

BETAS ARE YOUR LAST SHOT AT MAKING RADICAL CHANGES.

I dont think warframe will die or anything, but they're ruining their shot at becoming as prolific as cod or LoL.

A side note on weapons:

There is plenty of variety in weapons. Therer could stand to be more, but they've been doing a solid job lately there. Castanas are cool, marelok has a very unique feel to it with its lever action, grinlok gives us a status viable support rifle.

You're straight up wrong about min/maxing being the only viable way to handle the endgame. Even in a game like dark souls I could handle the entirety of PvE and 2v1 PvP with weird personal taste builds.

Warframe is a shade of difficulty by comparison.

All that the game needs is for the numbers on current mods to be tweaked really.

As it stands however, I can use a gas-status proc built tysis on lvl 60 grineer with extreme potency. So dont act like its crit/rainbow or go home.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Nazakuu

[Noble_Cactus]

Hell, sometimes this feels like an alpha *shrug*

[Althix]

I dont think warframe will die or anything

it's dying for people who were with the game from the start of OBT or even CBT, all the way to this very moment.

 

as for rng

morphics. 1h in T2S.

 

know what? i still can't play C and MD after U12, its 28 days already, so i will give it a try with my clan mates later today. But, i am really tired of all this. Tokens or no tokens, as it now i'm really at the point of no return. Tired. Really.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Althix

[Kipp-vas-Xerinae]

For now i must say that i need a serious break from warframe...

 

What i see now is more dilution/adding shiny weapons/frames etc. i wish that DE primarily focus would be fixing core issues that lying here for months. If this is a truly BETA, we should have option to test everything "out of the box", we should see more radical changes and community voice should be more important...

 

I wish that i could add more things here but i absolutely see no point to do so, mainly because this doesn't change anything....

[Th3Dean]

Hey nugget!

I like your thread, was hoping you could maybe read mine and tell me what you think about the new update; what with DE repeating their same old mistakes over again.

 

This is my take on it: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/190407-void-dilution/

Edited March 6, 2014 by Th3Dean

[Raciepie]

This hurts my brain.
Look, I get it. I love video games. I don't think they're "just games". Many games have really changed my life.

But if you have so many issues with this one game, take a break, play another. There is a sea of games out there. I love how devoted so many of you are to DE and Warframe, but it seems like some of you are getting truly hurt and upset. Games should bring joy, comfort or satisfaction, and inspire you to see the world differently, not make you type out novels of complaints, taking time out of your life that isn't bringing you anything good...
You know the quote, "

“Respect yourself enough to walk away from anything that no longer serves you, grows you, or makes you happy. “"

[Luminati07]

Hey nugget!

I like your thread, was hoping you could maybe read mine and tell me what you think about the new update; what with DE repeating their same old mistakes over again.

 

This is my take on it: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/190174-so-new-void-items-wonder-where-theyll-go/

Hey, I'm a bit busy at the moment, but I'll give it a read soon and leave my thoughts.

Thanks :)

 

 

This hurts my brain.

Look, I get it. I love video games. I don't think they're "just games". Many games have really changed my life.

But if you have so many issues with this one game, take a break, play another. There is a sea of games out there. I love how devoted so many of you are to DE and Warframe, but it seems like some of you are getting truly hurt and upset. Games should bring joy, comfort or satisfaction, and inspire you to see the world differently, not make you type out novels of complaints, taking time out of your life that isn't bringing you anything good...

You know the quote, "

“Respect yourself enough to walk away from anything that no longer serves you, grows you, or makes you happy. “"

 

I agree.

 

I didn't write x amounts of words while continually playing the game.

I've taken several breaks, and am also on one right now.

I do test out new content, though. As much as some forum-goers like to think that I don't play anything, and just come to the Forums to complain.

 

I do keep coming back every now and then to see if anything has been fixed.

 

I take time out of my life to write this because I want Warframe to be a great game, and I think it has the potential. Right now, it's...good at best.

The constant 6.5-7 score reviews (even though scores are not something I wholly agree with when it comes to reviews) tell the story.

 

I'm trying to provide feedback (even though sometimes I just get ranty and start swearing) as best I can.

After writing ~18000 words, or whatever I'm up to, and the only acknowledgement by a dev was Megan locking the first due to "derailing" after 3 posts, well...Doesn't really fill you with much confidence.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Nugget_

[Demiplume]

Ive taken a 5 month break from this game. Alot have changed for the best, it really shows that they are hard working on this game.

The only thing that still reduce my interest in this game is the lack of a real objective. Sure you can try new frames, new weapons and level up your mods... but what for? When they will give this kind of content(goal) ill be more inclined to invest money into this game.

 

OP ive read part of what you wrote, and I dont believe the problem lies in the mechanics/grind. Its more of a lack of goal progression.

And of course the classic "stop complaining if you find the game awful, and play something else" applies here.

But you all should know, "But its beta!" no longer applies.

[D1sc1pl3]

Don't get bitter man too many good games out there. Free to pay games have cost me more than any other game I've played ever. My choice I know but when they fail to deliver after a while I back burner it till they do if ever. Mechwarrior online another example never did anything with it. Warframe same thing. Now I will use the skills I've learned from both games and play Titanfall! Good buy Warfarm.

[BETAOPTICS]

Yeah this is so sad, yet so predictable. Here we are. Again. And I'm getting tired of this. I am not even sure if I will bother when Melee 2.0 comes out because honestly, what will change in a long run? DE seems to stay what they have become, they don't care what their playerbase really thinks about their updates, they just roll them out, hopes they don't get caught and later on blame that it was a " honest mistake ".

I am having harder times buying these excuses when I see time and again seeing the same " mistake " done with the same excuses made. I'm sorry but this is too much even for a long time player. If things aren't going to change from this, neither will the playerbases opinion and you will soon find out that you are out of income.

Why? What happened to our playerbase you may ask. Well, your greed happened, that is what. I have said it tons of times before and a hefty experience in gamin industry has taught me that ultimately games are majorly part of customer service, disrespect the customers and they disrespect you back and they will not be returning either. It shouldn't be rocket science that every lost customer is bad for business and if people start leaving at a higher rate, it is an indication of bad customer service and whatnot.

At this point you either fix your stuff and hope people will come back or you stay stubborn and die. It is definitely not the first time I have seen this, many studios have been shut down and developers are out of work and even if you are successful now, don't take us granted like you seem to DE. You are not this godly developing team above others, you don't have a own set of rules that you alone get to make. No, you are looked upon just like any other game developer out there.

EDIT: Oh and I was thinking of buying another Prime Access pack now that a new one came out just for the sheer pleasure but seeing the prices, the items and how they are implemented normally I won't. it is not because of these items but to support the cause that I thought you guys get it now, that you have learned your lesson. Bullshining was I wrong, of course you didn't but guess what, jokes on you I guess.

EDIT2: And I know no one cares but I'll be taking at least a break from this game for now because of what I talked about above. Hopefully DE gives me a reason to come back, otherwise my trip is now over. Farewell everyone, for now at least.

Edited March 6, 2014 by BETAOPTICS

[Dalu__Ka]

Lower your expectations.

 

Problem solved.

[BETAOPTICS]

 

This hurts my brain.

Look, I get it. I love video games. I don't think they're "just games". Many games have really changed my life.

But if you have so many issues with this one game, take a break, play another. There is a sea of games out there. I love how devoted so many of you are to DE and Warframe, but it seems like some of you are getting truly hurt and upset. Games should bring joy, comfort or satisfaction, and inspire you to see the world differently, not make you type out novels of complaints, taking time out of your life that isn't bringing you anything good...

You know the quote, "

“Respect yourself enough to walk away from anything that no longer serves you, grows you, or makes you happy. “"

 

There is a video in ExtraCredits that explains this kind of behavior but the main point is, that once a player is invested enough, it is really hard not to be invested. People want bang for their bucks if they have put a lot of money for them into the game and if it goes uncorresponded, well cases like mine, Nugget_s and General Krulls happen. We want this game to learn from mistakes and want the game to improve, not to become worse and we become upset when we see that wish been stomped over time and again.

At that point, it is really sad to leave from the game, after all that players like us been trough with the game but for me at least, I can leave as I please but I do get the psychological reasons of this behavior loud and clear. If you or someone is willing to dig that video up, great. It explains it a lot better even though your point is without a question, valid.

Edited March 6, 2014 by BETAOPTICS

[Archistopheles]

Here's some fuel for the fire: Boltor Prime is the first pure DPS rifle upgrade that can only be gotten through money or RNG.

 

P2W has arrived.

[Luminati07]

Lower your expectations.

 

Problem solved.

So my only way to enjoy Warframe is to lower my expectations for it?

That's a pretty big problem, don't you think?