I Find Myself Becoming More And More Bitter As The Days Progress

[LukeAura]

This is very true and if the RNG was ever fixed I would be against prime trading but right now I think that a band-aid fix is better then doing nothing.

At this point I think it was best Primes were started to be locked behind mastery level or given sufficient drawbacks that they require more skill and care to use.

Trading looks like it's going to stay, so these exclusive weapons need to at least have some form of experience/gameplay time dictated lock on them that is more deterministic or skill based than RNG. 

[Daxank]

"There's no TL;DR"

I really wanted to read but ... IT'S A F-ING BOOK THAT YOU WROTE THERE !
So TL;DR :3

[CBAROG]

"There's no TL;DR"

I really wanted to read but ... IT'S A F-ING BOOK THAT YOU WROTE THERE !

So TL;DR :3

Well, this book is interesting, don't you think? But a bit bitter.

[Stalvert]

Not going to read the entirety of every response, but people are aware of the original drop rate problems of the Orokin towers/defense missions and the fact that mod packs were not only an absurd ripoff but had worse drop rates of rare mods than the Orokin towers did for their rare items?

[profoak0117]

I think DE made the prices so expensive on the market is because they don't want you to just buy it off of the market without a really good reason(or if your just really rich and dont care about money at all). They wanted you to play the game, to have fun. But the farming kinda ruins it

[Zeranov]

For every game designer this topic is worth its letters in gold. Very good criticism although a bit bitter but thats understandable, if you played a while at high levels and in the void yourself.

 

Dev should really take this "book", as stated 3 comments before, to heart. Will greatly help to understand the frustration and burn-out of many veterans like a friend of mine, who quitted the game after wasting hundreds of hours in first getting the right void key and second not getting his precious TWO Orthos Prime blades.

 

As the OP said. RNG can make things less rigid and more interesting, but multiple layers of RNG with increasing dilution as the game progresses... it kills players.

[gnat6]

At this point I think it was best Primes were started to be locked behind mastery level or given sufficient drawbacks that they require more skill and care to use.

Trading looks like it's going to stay, so these exclusive weapons need to at least have some form of experience/gameplay time dictated lock on them that is more deterministic or skill based than RNG. 

I think adding a higher mastery rank to prime weapons is a good idea maybe something like the mastery rank of the non prime version +2= the mastery requirement of the prime weapon.

That does leave out the prime weapons without a non prime counterpart but its the best idea I could come up with on short notice.

[Althix]

At this point I think it was best Primes were started to be locked behind mastery level or given sufficient drawbacks that they require more skill and care to use.

you see, you can't use "Warframe" and "skill" in a positive way on a basis of a single sentence. Because this game requires no skill to play it. Only some understanding of gaming  process and hours of grind.

We do not have a content that requires weapons or equipment behind MR restrictions. I mean it. I am MR15 but i am using MR6 weapon. And i am bored. I am bored because its overkill, i am bored simply because my sentinel can solo first 30 minutes on any survival.

 

Mods. Mods are major part of this game. You may not have all frames all weapons, but if you have right mods in a right condition you already can solo stand survival for 1h easy. Even with Mk1-Braton. And i mean it. Yes. You can.

 

Mechanics behind mobs. You see it's damn hard to die to mobs. Because well... they can't really kill you. They only can kill you when their level is high enough. And again, it's not because you are making a mistake, or mobs have some tactical combination in their script, or they require some teamplay to kill them. No. They kill you because their damage output is damn high. You can deal with their armor, you can deal with their hp pool, but if you are sloppy or you caught a bullet during casting time, they will oneshot you. But you can counter it with many means, and you can make mobs harmless like newborn kittens.

^- as result entire gameplay is repetitive, monotonous sequence of push that, shoot this. all over again. and again. and again. and yes - again.

 

In order to hide weapons or equipement of any kind behind Mastery Rank restrictions, there should appear a demand for such actions. There should be missions for different types of MR, readiness and skill of the player. Therefore this game should have a gradation.

 

But how can you grade this player or that player? This one can be a MR2 but his mods collection could be superior to yours. Or that one is MR15 but he is worthless noob. In standart MMOs level of the player serves as a level of readiness. When player of let say level 20 can't complete a dungeon designed for a player of level 80. In a Warframe we can't have such gradation. The only possible way to evaluate a player is to use conclave points. Or just to create several missions for everyone, if player is ready he can do this mission, if his is not - well come back later.

 

And there is another problem. Powers in this game have too major role. There is very few frames viable for high level play, when the rest of them is just mastery only or fun only. In order to create at least something that could pass for a "skill" entire mechanics of this game must change.

 

So tl;dr:

In order to lock weapons behind MR, justifying this by skill, this game must become balanced, skill dependant game. And in order to make this game at least cooperative game and after that skill dependant game, entire mechanics and entire gameplay must change.

 

p.s. And in order to make this game something bigger than a grindfest with no goal, developer must put a lot of effort and thinking in this product. And honestly i can't see it happen with this game.

 

p.p.s. Because if you can track all "improvements" which were made with this game, you can see that 1/3 of them not thought out or half made and 2/3 are called to make gameplay effortless.

 

p.p.p.s. So i can't really see any need in MR restrictions and i can't see why we must grind all new stuff, because in a short or long run none of it make any sense.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Althix

[Luminati07]

I think DE made the prices so expensive on the market is because they don't want you to just buy it off of the market without a really good reason(or if your just really rich and dont care about money at all). They wanted you to play the game, to have fun. But the farming kinda ruins it

I see this argument everywhere, and every single time I do, I think it's total bs. (not an insult to you)

 

DE is a business.

What business would intentionally deter its customers from purchasing a product. Very, very few.

 

No. I think the answer is much simpler than DE being some light in the darkness with some morally charged reason for charging exorbitant prices.

DE has no idea how to price a market, and is totally unwilling to change it.

 

Simple as that.

A quick look at the Skana/Dual Skana tells you more than enough.

150 Platinum for a single Skana

125 Platinum for a Dual Skana

 

Is there logic in that? F*** no.

It seems like early on, DE just went with whatever price popped into their heads.

 

Over time, instead of sorting this out, they just increased the prices up to the point where there was a norm for weapons and Warframes.

This norm is

225 Platinum for a weapon ($15)

375 Platinum for a Warframe ($25)

 

They do seem to be lowering it slightly, but that isn't a solution.

The solution is to overhaul the market. Not release items with a cost of a few less platinum.

 

"There's no TL;DR"

I really wanted to read but ... IT'S A F-ING BOOK THAT YOU WROTE THERE !

So TL;DR :3

Well then...Don't post?

[CBAROG]

It seems DE has no idea how to make the game enjoyable, not just "I spent some hundreds of hours and I want to forget it" And DE is totally unwilling to change it. Or they don't know how. Or it's their pride kicking in. "What do these players know?! WE are the developers!"

Edited March 14, 2014 by CBAROG

[MagPrime]

I'm surprised that this thread has lasted this long and not one DE employee has popped in to comment.

 

Also, I'm surprised and a little saddened that a lot of the points made back at the beginning of October are still valid,  5.5 months later.

[senmurai]

many valid points made by people who enjoy this game and want to make the game better, for them and for those who think like them.

[IIJetfireII]

Generally speaking having most things on the player market is a good thing for players.

nope, i can't agree to that at all.

 

Grinding for months goes down to vain by a simple trade?

 

it '' maybe '' gd for them, but is that how you really want to progress things in the game?

 

As nugget stated, it's a proof enough that they aren't gonna make any changes on the current RNG system.

Edited March 14, 2014 by IIRodimusprimeII

[semigod22]

tl;tr @everything but

 

if ur gettin more and more bitter about a game. u totally lost control of your life

 

 

get help!

[Luminati07]

tl;tr @everything but

 

if ur gettin more and more bitter about a game. u totally lost control of your life

If you're going to reply with tl;dr @ everything, don't bother to reply.

Congratulations on getting another post to your name, I guess?

 

 

I'm surprised that this thread has lasted this long and not one DE employee has popped in to comment.

 

Also, I'm surprised and a little saddened that a lot of the points made back at the beginning of October are still valid,  5.5 months later.

Psh, we had this in page 3

The only dev response, and it had next to nothing about my OP. Didn't even acknowledge it.

 

Oh, and we had Megan respond in V1 of this thread. That response was a lock due to "derailing" after 3 posts that could be considered a very minor derail.

 

1. It would renew my faith in humanity if our community did something like this for new players regularly.

2. Steve has his head down working on improving the tutorial in time for PS4 launch day. Expect not to hear from him much over the next few weeks (except maybe next week's Livestream).

 

[senmurai]

may be because the views of (some of) the ones who posted here are a tiny % of the views that matter.

[dashashou]

and now there's broken lights , and energy draining doors  to add to list of the thousand cuts 

[Luminati07]

may be because the views of (some of) the ones who posted here are a tiny % of the views that matter.

Take my last post with a kilogram of salt. I don't care about, nor do I expect, a dev response.

The last post was partly sarcasm, which is notoriously difficult to portray in text with any hint of subtlety, as I have discovered for various reasons.

 

and now there's broken lights , and energy draining doors  to add to list of the thousand cuts 

Still haven't got around to testing them out.

Haven't played for a couple weeks now.

 

I plan on trying out the latest additions at some point, but right now, better games have my attention.

[NalkorRN]

Take my last post with a kilogram of salt. I don't care about, nor do I expect, a dev response.

The last post was partly sarcasm, which is notoriously difficult to portray in text with any hint of subtlety, as I have discovered for various reasons.

 

Still haven't got around to testing them out.

Haven't played for a couple weeks now.

 

I plan on trying out the latest additions at some point, but right now, better games have my attention.

I heard the latest DevStream had devs say the Interception brickwall for new players is going to stay as is because they see it as an 'extreme badass challenge' or something. Never-mind that players might still be lacking required mods (serration was easier to get when Apollodarus had them spawning in droves before the 5 minute mark), but now we have devs who are blind to all the posts made by new players who keep getting stuck and Earth and a good number of them leave the game because Interception is just too frustrating for them.

[SoanoS]

I heard the latest DevStream had devs say the Interception brickwall for new players is going to stay as is because they see it as an 'extreme badass challenge' or something. Never-mind that players might still be lacking required mods (serration was easier to get when Apollodarus had them spawning in droves before the 5 minute mark), but now we have devs who are blind to all the posts made by new players who keep getting stuck and Earth and a good number of them leave the game because Interception is just too frustrating for them.

It is not just the new players... I find those "interception" missions boring as hell. You run in 20 meters, run around in circles in one single room, killing enemies and stand inside a circle. <sarcasm> I can barely contain my excitement. </sarcasm>

They are also currently much more difficult than standard missions. While the challenge level is fine for maxed frames, I would not want to be the "new guy" who just got to Earth, and got the Grineer wipe the floor with his face over and over again. Way too high for third system a newbie enters. If they are not oneshotted by the Eviscerators, they will be insta-nuked trough the walls by a leader unit. Public games having mostly clueless players doesn't help, causing a "wave" that could be over in 5 minutes take 15.

Definitely my most hated game mode at the moment.

Edited March 26, 2014 by SoanoS

[Dalu__Ka]

This thread was started about 5 months ago, I wonder what the OP tastes like now.

[billthebetta]

This thread was started about 5 months ago, I wonder what the OP tastes like now.

Ever tasted a walnut? And I don't mean the meat of the nut, the part you eat, but the green husk that perma-stains clothing brown?

I bet it's like that.

And it's nearly full out springtime. I'm feeling a bit "green" as well.

[Luminati07]

As much as I'd like to amuse you both, please end the derailing here.

[(PSN)Toycammander666]

Wow, Great read, I seriously think i'm in the "midway-stage" of the phases that you were going through, I've been playing the game for a little more than a month(just now decided to lurk on forums) now and the game has reached it's stale point. One thing i didn't notice you talk about was the "XP Lock" being bypassed with plat cause that's one thing that pissed me off when my lvl 4 rank friend was able to use the Soma just by getting the Nekros bundle.

[(PSN)azurdragon]

my my... been a while since I came across such a... well thought of/well structured/well written post (OP). Respect... regardless of my agreement or otherwise, this is unquestionably good stuff.

Spending some time over the last few days to read the fixes that have been implemented over the last few updates, it seems, to me at least, as if DE is using this thread to workout how to proceed next. Having done such a remarkable endevour to see things from as many sides as possible, you refrain from writing how you think DE sees all this; DE being a company working for some profit etc.

To be honest up front, I will state: My mind adores DE, my heart despises them... Being a geek, my mind wins, and here I am playing this game and writing in the forums.

Having developed large scale corporate SW myself, I feel I need to remind people that code of this scale is CERTAINLY not easy to modify. Everything being connected as it is, a small change can bring catastrophic results if done precariously... And to do it seriously takes an obscene amount of checking, cross-checking, and different sets of eyes checking and cross-checking, testing and testing and more testing... and all that even before the devs consider making that "change" go live. To most companies, at the end of the day, all this, sadly, amounts to money.

This brings me to "my heart despises them": this game is probably the best implementation of the most basic marketing principle (if you want to sell something, do not address your client's logic/mind but his taste). And they have nailed it. Who does not love the idea of space-ninjas? Even if they happen to wear high healed boots (what the?!)...

Semi-joking aside, the income issue is one we cannot ignore when considering what we want in this game or when we evaluate what has been done or not. And the way DE has gone about to get said moneys, is despicably efficient (it's like taking candy from a baby). They are aware of a certain group's existence and they milk it. That is the group of people, who, for some inexplicable reason, would rather prance about showing of "stuff" than actually play the game. And let's face it... they are the best target group to milk. Be it their indifference to spending lurid amounts of cash to just show off? Some sort of mental challenge or genius? who knows? But they are a reliable source of income that cannot be ignored. And one of your (and my) pet hates, the market, is specifically cut and measured for them... Like in so many other games.

Edited March 26, 2014 by (PS4)azurdragon