I Find Myself Becoming More And More Bitter As The Days Progress

[Luminati07]

Giving this thread a quick bump. I've added edit 18.

I briefly go over the latest livestream, the event, and my experience after about a months break.

 

Added some more stuff to my Gradivus Dilemma section.

[LukeAura]

Thank you Nugget for those points of view ;)

 

Lots of very valid ones.

 

Wont come back on everything that has already been said on those first 5 pages, but on the need of proper tutorial for PS4 players ...

I want to say, that's why i dont want Warframe on PS4. I have no respect nor affinity for a community that is not able to open keybindings, read a wiki, or a guide on a site/forum. Console and console community is the ruin of gameplay and smartness (sorry, can i say smatness? not english :/).

That's why i really want warframe PC and PS4 to be 2 totally different games, with 2 dev teams. Sadly, DE cant "afford" that. They already showed their limits on designing the PC version ...

 

As it's late, and i'm very interested in this discussion, i will come back tomorrow after a full re-read of all the posts ;)

Not all of us console gamers are like that you know. I always read the manual before even putting the game in. ;)

Also, intelligence is better over smartness if you don't like how it sounds. 

 

[dEEkAy2k9]

@OP

 

ye i see, some other posts are underlined aswell, damn you, how could you break the forums? =)

 

B2T

i found myself playing farmframe less and less and i haven't even touched warframe since mid-end august i think. i keep reading your updates and edits but they just confirm that the game at all has not changed. gameplay is somewhat repetitive, weapons are not really differentiated and are all crap without mods and beasts with mods (with a few exceptions). there's still no real end game content (if you can call it that way). atleast some kind of goal i can try to achiev.

 

let's see what those next months will bring for farmframe. maybe something will change and get me back into the game but i really (and sadly) doubt that.

[blackgu4rd]

I agree with everything except parts of Edit 7 (Edit 18 being the latest as of this post).

 

All in all, it was worth the read. I can only hope that DE not only reads this and takes note, but that they will also act upon the gripes mentioned.

[NalkorRN]

 

Giving this thread a quick bump. I've added edit 18.

I briefly go over the latest livestream, the event, and my experience after about a months break.

 

Added some more stuff to my Gradivus Dilemma section.

 

Pretty sure it's been pointed out, but I think your suspicisions concerning Vor's Prize are correct. Look carefully at the facial expression, what does it remind you of?

[Luminati07]

New edit has been added.

Livestream summary with thoughts, and a short rant about the market. (again)

 

*Edit*
Also, if devs are reading this. Can someone please sort out the front page. 

I PM'd Rebecca about it, with no response.

 

It looks awful, and I'd love to have it fixed.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Nugget_

[Tazmanyak]

this latest livestream ... laughable, at best ...

none of reb's questions was properly answered. at best, they were totally dodged.

and on rebecca's side, what a poor choice of questions ...

 

I totally agree with cash shop prices. it's out of consideration i ever buy a frame or a weapon.

The thing i really dont understand is: i'm quite ok with high prices for newly released items; even 375plats a frame is really expensive! but why arent those prices lowered drastically over the weeks that follow release?

The cheapest frames should cost 75 plats, the cheapest weapons 30 to 50 plats maybe. Those prices should be reached ~3 months after release

[AscendantWyvern]

 

- Gradivus Dilemma. 8.4 million total missions.

How did the dev team think the event went?

 

The battlepay went to S#&$ in the first day. 

 

The dev team all said they thought it went great.

They didn't even touch on how making players run extermination missions over and over is mind numbingly boring and tedious.

Apparently it was all sunshine and rainbows.

 

I'd have liked them to actually admit that the execution was bloody awful.

 

- Will the new damage system change the difficulty?

Mag's pull/M. Prime are going to be tweaked.

 

Thank christ for that. Sure, people are going to be &!$$ed. It's just like the Hek. That thing was blatantly overpowered, and anyone that cries about such a nerf are (mostly) the ones that are upset that the thing they rely on is going to be weaker.

 

Nobody can honestly say that Pull is not overpowered, that power is a complete joke.

M. Prime deals a S#&$load of damage, slows enemies and applies a debuff so the team deals more damage.

Look at that, then look at every single other ult out there.

 

M. Prime is also a joke. Don't pretend it isn't.

 

Yes. The damage system will alter the difficulty.

 

I had a question about wtf is going on with the market. The prices are getting out of @(*()$ hand, and I'm over it.

The prices are getting ever higher, especially now the weapons are getting "cooler" than the older ones.

And, naturally, because these weapons are shinier and newer, DE jacks up the prices to @(*()$ ridiculous levels.

 

Latest releases.

 

Soma - 265 plat (~$17)

Ballistica - 240 plat (~$16)

Nekros - 375 plat ($25)

 

I hardly even use the market anymore because I refuse to buy any more platinum. What the hell is supposed to entice me to purchase when I see those prices?

 

I understand that Forma, potatoes and slots are reasonable, but those are just absolutely laughable.

 

Again, I hardly use the market, and it's the main thing that's keeping me bitter. Why? Because I feel disappointed that DE refuses to sort it out.

Like I've used before, the prime example is the Dual Skana. 125 platinum.

What a joke...

 

 

 

 

 

Thank GOD someone other than me said this.

[Luminati07]

Thank GOD someone other than me said this.

Yep. It has to be said.

 

Every "Nerf Nova" thread I've seen has turned into a complete S#&$storm of the rational players being attacked endlessly by those who play her.

 

They use excuses like "Yeah, but she isn't good on high level defense. Only against trash mobs"

What bs.

 

A damage increase and a slow. Which includes massive radius and extremely high damage? Doesn't matter how high the enemies' levels are, that skill is a joke.

Not to mention, Anti-Matter Drop does thousands and thousands of damage when used right.

 

I wish more people would see it for what it is.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I wish more people would see it for what it is.

Yep, +1, took me awhile to agree with Mprime being OP, and that "Buff everything else!" wouldn't work, I mean, how powerful would every other ult have to be to compete with Mprime? Mprime which doubles damage, slows enemies AND on death of enemies makes them explode in a pretty large area. And the debuff lats for like, 2 minutes I think.

[RedDirtTrooper]

I still can't get over them saying the event was a huge success in the livestream. Battle pay being so slanted at the beginning locked lots of clans in to Grineer early on, and then it was just tedious exterminate runs over and over again with useless NPCs thrown in for flavor. It felt like trying to clear an enormous pile of t1 void exterminate keys. Only way I got through it was my ridiculously OP pull Mag(She was probably broken before, but fleeting expertise and blind rage have officially made me feel guilty and dirty in a good way playing her) and speed running as fast as possible while ripping the souls out of everything from three rooms away. I was ending missions with 85 to 100% of the kills. That should have made it pretty quick, but the spawns being ridiculous and broken sure didn't help to make it less tedious as everyone milled around waiting for the last 12 corpus to spawn. Most of the PUGs weren't even bright enough to stand on the exit and wait for them to spawn in the room right before it, instead haring off in the opposite direction at a dead run and randomizing them all over the place. And the rewards being so dependent on which side won was kind of a kick in the teeth for all the Corpus supporters, even if they should have read the announcement better and known what they were getting in to.

 

Nope, I wouldn't consider it a pinnacle of an event.

[Bakim0n0]

The recent event was a huge sucess.... in relation to their other... god awful events.

This one was at least somewhat tolerable; frankly I was disgusted with the events in this game since I killed myself the the moa event and promptly nerfed the reward I killed myself for into the ground HARD. It really made me feel great about taking the weekend off and doing 20 hour turn and burn sessions.

The event was great... for like the first 15 runs or so. By run 30 I was absolutely done with it but kept pushing because I wanted the battle pay rewards... the fact that we got the rewards only from the winner rather than who we supported totally demotivated me from actually trying to just sit down and do missions because I did not (and do not) want the grineer rewards. I've gotten the machette wraith up to like rank 10... it's a total garbage weapon that should never have been offered as a special event exclusive and the hand-cannon is just a straight upgrade to the bronco.

Something I feel you didn't touch on Nugget is how the Forma totally destroyed all personality any of the gear in this game has and totally destroyed any concept of different builds between frames. Before Forma people would have discussions like: X weapon has better stats, but Y weapon has a polarity slot that really makes up for the difference. Now, after Forma, it's just like: Oh, this weapon has two slots, so that's two less times I need to forma it before I jam every damage mod into it.

Mix that with DE putting out DIRECT UPGRADES of weapons out is a huge middle finger to me, and I reckon a lot of others. I got sickened by this trend of dumping $10 worth of Forma (farmed or actually spending money) into a piece of gear just to have a prime variant or a new piece of gear that makes the old weapon totally trivial. (for example, I forma'ed up my braton and then the braton prime came out. Had I rushed to get the Braton Prime and forma that I would have had the Soma drop on me. Had I forma'ed my bronco I would have had the dual bronco drop on me, then had I forma'ed that the Brakk came out). This is not acceptable to me, it directly discourages me from using this feature of the game. And that resource / plat doesn't even account for the painful process of leveling the same item 2-3-4+ times.

[Avrose]

I agree with the start of almost all of your sentences however you lose me at the end of all of your points. The reason being is those these points all require polish you do not address the logic behind those decisions nor the way they can be fixed.

 

Giving DE a huge list of S#&$ is a waste of time. They know what sucks, they are painfully aware of what sucks but changing the game to make it more present without looking at the bigger picture is short sighted and stupid.

 

A good example is your complaint of the market prices. Yes they are bad and could be adjusted but just stating though without going into detail of how and why something can be done is just stating the obvious.

 

Here is a good example of what you should say:

 

Example: The pricing in the market is currently appears arbitrary. A good example is the Vastro Pistol(s). Not only are the duel versions cheaper but touching on the crafting is also off. In order to get the duel pistol version while crafting you have to craft 2 single versions of the same pistol.

 

There is almost no reason to make/buy the single version aside from getting the final duel version. For the sake of leveling or adding a potato to it is pointless unless you want the mastery and just the single version (for accuracy)

 

What needs to happen is in crafting the potato should carry over and not be wasted while the market price of the item single version should be 45-50% of the plat price of the duel version.

 

See I addressed the problem, explained why it is a problem and gave a suggestion on how to deal with it.

 

Reading your ungodly long post was just a waste of my time because I only read what I already know and just felt worse about the game because I read some downer thread without any light at the end of the tunnel in the form of a solution.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Avrose

[Xelorx]

If you're not going to be productive, then just leave.

 

Towards being bitter? That's right, that would be off-topic in this thread. /sarcasm

 

Towards discussion of the mistakes of DE and fixing them, I believe he did a good job providing an example of what people should attempt doing, at least in addition to highlighting the mistakes. I appreciate Nugget in providing awareness of the flaws in the game, and I DO hope DE touches on the issues, but they're only going to change it so much (if at all) without a proposed solution (that's not to say NO ONE is doing it, because there is). Some changes can go without saying (so mention that brief solution, just for the convenience that everyone is on the same page, if attempting to get a proper response out of the problem), but it's more constructive and less of a downer to attempt to fix the issue, hopefully after carefully analyzing it.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Xelorx

[Bakim0n0]

This is a "downer" thread? It's more like a big compilation of issues.

Other than the Ced thing... that's personal preferance.

[Tazmanyak]

I agree with the start of almost all of your sentences however you lose me at the end of all of your points. The reason being is those these points all require polish you do not address the logic behind those decisions nor the way they can be fixed.

You got a point here :)

Feedback should always, if possible, include solutions. Even if everybody will certainly not agree on authors points of view.

 

If you're not going to be productive, then just leave.

Sorry, this is totally not productive ... Avrose points out a very valid point here, dont you think? really??

 

 

Now, about nova!

I dont know on what side of the community i am ...

Nova is certainly very powerfull.

It's certainly the most powerfull frame available in game, dps wise.

Added to this huge dps, Nova has great mobility, an awesome teleport power, and 3 powers that just boost each others.

Nova has not really any flow! (but low armor, but is it really a flaw?). She, as a full dps frame, even has a - aura polarity, when she should have a v polarity.

So yes, Nova is quite powerfull, maybe TOO powerfull in hands of skilled players.

But, Nova has it's place in high level games. It allows for added creativity in team play, helps dealing with really high level ennemies (300+).

 

So, nerf nova? i personnally dont really think so. Maybe some balancing?

If so, then it's not mprime that should be nerfed. they should balance/nerf antimater drop first! by limiting the % added absorbed damage and the explosion range.

Then, give an eye to mprime. maybe limit the snare and damage multiplier to a max 30 and 100%?

 

Even with those changes, Nova will be considered as overpowered.

 

So, why nerfing her?

Cant we maybe consider the option of not nerfing Nova, but REALLY boosting damage output of some other frames that SOULD have high DPS?

My eyes are now on Ember. And Saryn. Mostly.

Then, Ash, nyx and Volt could benefit from a real dps increase.

This could certainly be easily done by adding an armor/resist ignore component on their powers effects.

[Luminati07]

 

Now, about nova!

 

So yes, Nova is quite powerfull, maybe TOO powerfull in hands of skilled players.

But, Nova has it's place in high level games. It allows for added creativity in team play, helps dealing with really high level ennemies (300+).

 

So, nerf nova? i personnally dont really think so. Maybe some balancing?

If so, then it's not mprime that should be nerfed. they should balance/nerf antimater drop first! by limiting the % added absorbed damage and the explosion range.

Then, give an eye to mprime. maybe limit the snare and damage multiplier to a max 30 and 100%?

 

Even with those changes, Nova will be considered as overpowered.

 

So, why nerfing her?

Cant we maybe consider the option of not nerfing Nova, but REALLY boosting damage output of some other frames that SOULD have high DPS?

My eyes are now on Ember. And Saryn. Mostly.

Then, Ash, nyx and Volt could benefit from a real dps increase.

This could certainly be easily done by adding an armor/resist ignore component on their powers effects.

Before I get to this. I don't know how armour 2.0 is going to affect the Warframe's power damage. So this is purely on the current damage model.

 

The thing is though, every Warframe should have a place in high levels. This just isn't the case.

Right now what do we have? Vauban, Nyx (kind of), Nova, Rhino and Frost. (I'm probably missing a few)

 

I agree that other Warframes should be brought up to scratch. But increasing their damage output to match Nova is not the way to do it.

The game is already laughably easy for the most part. Unless you're playing wave 50+, every Warframe is going to steamroll through enemies. So, making every Warframe as powerful as nova would just ruin it for me. (and many others)

 

I'm at work, so I have to head off. But, I'll touch on this post a bit more afterwards.

 

-Snip-

I know for most of my more recent edits, I haven't put in any forms of solutions. But, if you read over them all. I actually do provide some kind of solution for quite a few of them.

 

Why didn't I put forth any solutions for the market? That was intentional.

I'm not a game developer, nor do I work in the industry. So, I don't believe I'm in a place to actually put forward a real solution for things like that.

I'm all for posting ideas for fixing things (like my idea for the mod packs). But, I just don't think I'm in any place to offer solutions for things like real money markets.

 

"Reading your ungodly long post was just a waste of my time because I only read what I already know and just felt worse about the game because I read some downer thread without any light at the end of the tunnel in the form of a solution."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong. But I am getting the impression that you didn't read my entire thread.

I proposed solutions in quite a few of my edits. (Just not the more recent ones).

 

You're making it sound like I didn't post any. That would give any new readers the impression that I just didn't bother at all, which is blatantly wrong.

 

Nevertheless, thankyou for the reply. It's always good to have different points of view.

[Avrose]

I did read it all I just do not see the point of writing a 95 theses at all. Pretending that DE isn't aware is a little much. They know what's broke, it's what they go into meetings every morning with their department heads to talk about before they split off and go do their jobs.

What is answered, why and how are not.

Telling me that there's a long list of errors doesn't help them. That have that list. What they don't have are ways to fix it and feedback on what they could do to make it fun.

I'm glad you care to help but I think a change in format is in order.

[Luminati07]

I did read it all I just do not see the point of writing a 95 theses at all. Pretending that DE isn't aware is a little much. They know what's broke, it's what they go into meetings every morning with their department heads to talk about before they split off and go do their jobs.

What is answered, why and how are not.

Telling me that there's a long list of errors doesn't help them. That have that list. What they don't have are ways to fix it and feedback on what they could do to make it fun.

I'm glad you care to help but I think a change in format is in order.

You're absolutely wrong when you say "a long list of errors doesn't help them".

It definitely does.

 

It doesn't matter if they know an issue, if players don't talk/outcry about said issue, will it get fixed? Maybe. Probably not.

Would the drop tables have been fixed if they weren't datamined? I doubt it.

Would we be getting armour 2.0 if there wasn't an absolute S#&$storm on the forums about it? Definitely not.

 

All in all, just because they already know an issue, does not mean that another perspective will not help.

[Avrose]

You're absolutely wrong when you say "a long list of errors doesn't help them".

It definitely does.

It doesn't matter if they know an issue, if players don't talk/outcry about said issue, will it get fixed? Maybe. Probably not.

Would the drop tables have been fixed if they weren't datamined? I doubt it.

Would we be getting armour 2.0 if there wasn't an absolute S#&$storm on the forums about it? Definitely not.

All in all, just because they already know an issue, does not mean that another perspective will not help.

Big difference between a long list and a public out cry about something specific. The first is a chore to read and does provide anything new to read the former just moves an issue up in the queue.

You are kidding yourself if you think DE isn't aware of at lest 90% of the issues. What they need is feedback not a list.

Edit: come to think of it the video game industry is the only one where it's socially acceptable to tell someone what to do and how to do it.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Avrose

[ReiganCross]

Well, the good news is that you have 2 posts... So i can give you 2 +1s!

 

Isn't that awesome?

 

Also, yeah, there is still a S#&$load of stuff left for you to adress that probably doesn't bother you. The Gender-Bending issue in Warframes and the nitpicking questions about the Lore and stuff. But it's longass as it is, you don't need to make it even longer by asking what exactly a Warframe is X_X.

 

Good post, hope it gets some flack from DE because lately this is the only way to make sure they're reading our stuff. (Remember when Steve said "Those guys always have 2 screen, one on their work and one on the forums. They're suposed to be there but aren't right now."... Well, none of the ones you showed us had it X__X)

[Roflchoptreh]

Big difference between a long list and a public out cry about something specific. The first is a chore to read and does provide anything new to read the former just moves an issue up in the queue.

You are kidding yourself if you think DE isn't aware of at lest 90% of the issues. What they need is feedback not a list.

Edit: come to think of it the video game industry is the only one where it's socially acceptable to tell someone what to do and how to do it.

 

It's not a matter of whether or not DE are aware of the issues at hand.

 

It's a matter of whether or not we can be loud enough for them to finally do something about those issues.

[Avrose]

It's not a matter of whether or not DE are aware of the issues at hand.

 

It's a matter of whether or not we can be loud enough for them to finally do something about those issues.

Yeah they do nothing else unless we tell them to.

All you do by shouting over one issue is move it up the list at best.

Giving them a list they just check it compare it to their current list and once they sure they have it all is create a queue.

Don't assume they are not working. It reeks of 'give me give me'.

[NukaKV]

Can you please fix your coding issue in Edit 11? The entire rest of the page is bolded/underlined because there's probably brackets you forgot to close or something.

Edited November 5, 2013 by NukaKV

[KvotheTheArcane1]

All you do by shouting over one issue is move it up the list at best.

Armor 2.0.

 

Your argument is invalid.

 

edit: To explain, armor/scaling was featured in plenty of "list of complaints"

Edited November 5, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1