15 Minute Survival - Impossible For Some

[ChameleonDude]

Hopefully this won't need much explaination - Tower Survival missions now require the group to hold out for fifteen minutes before they can claim their prime loot. It doesn't sound too bad, does it? People have to work a bit harder for their loot.

 

Wrong!

 

Sure, lasting fifteen minutes requires some amount of skill with the scaling enemies and whatnot... but it requires a pretty hefty chunk of luck as well. The big life support drops from the Lotus are nice and all, but they won't keep you going for fifteen minutes - you'll need some more from the ememies in the mission. But, what if... they don't feel like dropping any life support? Those small life support drops are pure chance. Sure, killing more enemies increases the likelihood of them dropping... but it's not always enough.

 

I fully support the idea of making these rewards a bit harder to get than just waiting for the Lotus drops and hiding for five minutes, maybe killing the odd enemy here and there, but as is - fifteen minutes is nigh impossible for the unlucky. And before anyone says this - no, this thread is not the result of attempting one mission with a bad team and failing to last long enough. This is the result of a player who's tried to embrace Survival missions since their weekend event, but has struggled to due to horrible, horrible life support drop rates every single time.

 

I've already been denied the Strun Wraith due to this... don't deny me Mag Prime as well. Please make life support pseudo-random (odds change after every un/sucessful drop to balance accordingly) or do something else to make these missions actually possible for the not-so-lucky players in your playerbase.

 

TL;DR gief me mah mag prime ples.

Edited October 10, 2013 by ChameleonDude

[Aure7]

shhhh! a challenge is coming into this game and you're scaring it away!

 

EDIT:

I'll keep that line above because that's still my opinion, and people seem to upvote it, but...

I just played 3 t3 survival missions on 10.3.4, with nekros running and spamming 3, rhino stomping constantly, me picking up every single capsule possible. I don't know if it's the recent hotfixes or what, but I swear it is impossible because in the last minutes there wasn't a single o2 drop from enemies. And capsules from lotus are cut as well.

 

second EDIT: It was probably a bug with Loki's redial disarm. Disarmed enemies did not drop anything and that kept us from getting o2 in the end.

Edited October 16, 2013 by Aure7

[ChameleonDude]

Sadly, praying to the RNG gods =/= challenge.

[Energigel]

Dont you have some decent players that can play with you?
It really isnt that hard and dont tell me you havent Potatoed all your Frames (at least your most favourites) and some weapons, cmon youre a Grand Master, you should have more than enough decent stuff to survive even more than 15 Min. You could even carry some lower players which can additionally give the team a buff or debuff the enemys if they do not have the best DPS Weapons etc.
Whats wrong about some challenge in the game. This is exactly what this game needs : decent Challenges besides highlevel Defs.
Stop crying and l2p or search players that carry you through. Jeez

Edited October 10, 2013 by Energigel

[ChameleonDude]

Most frames maxed and potatoed, most weapons unlocked and favourites potatoed and formaed. I have the gear and I do know how to play.

 

Again, these missions aren't a challenge to me. A challenge would be enemies with some difficulty to them and tactics needed to fight, instead of bullet sponges. The problem I'm talking about is clearing a few hundred enemies and seeing a couple of life supports at best. This is not skill or gear related, this is sheer bad luck.

[taiiat]

praying to the RNG =/= challenge.

there. a one liner that sums up the problems with some of the gameplay features in Warframe. if we aren't going to have basic limits in place to keep random from getting TOO random, then don't have random. 

 

sure, maybe 9/10 times random works just fine. but once in a while, it will go horribly. a Developer must assume if an unintended side effect causes the gameplay for some players to go horribly - that those players no longer play your game, and are taking their money elsewhere. 

Again, these missions aren't a challenge to me. A challenge would be enemies with some difficulty to them and tactics needed to fight, instead of bullet sponges. 

wait. wait. 

 

hold on, i must recollect myself. 

 

there's another player in this community that actually can understand the concept that slowing the game down and eating more bullets, but acting the same, means that enemies are all the same difficulty?

someone else understands that?

someone else doesn't just pretend enemies with 42x the health and damage are actually harder, when, they aren't because they only slow the game down(which slowing the game down is the exact opposite of Warframes' design concept - a fast paced, third person shooter, with l00t, a wide variety of weapons, and upgrades)

Edited October 10, 2013 by taiiat

[Inquisitioner]

Not impossible for some, just harder then they're used to.

[luciferiansama]

I actually like staying more then 5 minutes in the survivals, but i will say this the oxygen drops in some maps have been pretty crap lately. You could have the best team but if there aren't enough mobs or energy drops you wont make it to 15.

That being said someone else pointed out your a GM, it really shouldn't be a challenge. But I can see where you are coming from if this was in regards to lower ranked players, that don't have the luxury of a guild or friends that play regularly, and trying to get decent players for pub games is a nightmare.

Edited October 10, 2013 by luciferiansama

[ChameleonDude]

taiiat, thank you for some logic finally hitting the thread.

 

 

 

Not impossible for some, just harder then they're used to.

 

Right, so I kill every enemy in a room, no life support. Every enemy in the next room, with a few waves coming to aid them - no life support. No matter how many enemies die, there is no guarantee that adequate, or even a single, life support will drop. When that happens, it is harder than I'm used to... because there is no possible way for me to stop myself suffocating.

 

Unless there's some magical way to force more enemies to spawn, or create life support drops from thin air; these missions can be failed due to sheer bad luck with the drops. It's not likely to happen, but some of us are more often than not, unlucky with these drops. Congratulations on getting enough oxygen to last for the duration though. 

[Relkin]

there. a one liner that sums up the problems with some of the gameplay features in Warframe. if we aren't going to have basic limits in place to keep random from getting TOO random, then don't have random. 

 

sure, maybe 9/10 times random works just fine. but once in a while, it will go horribly. a Developer must assume if an unintended side effect causes the gameplay for some players to go horribly - that those players no longer play your game, and are taking their money elsewhere. 

wait. wait. 

 

hold on, i must recollect myself. 

 

there's another player in this community that actually can understand the concept that slowing the game down and eating more bullets, but acting the same, means that enemies are all the same difficulty?

someone else understands that?

someone else doesn't just pretend enemies with 42x the health and damage are actually harder, when, they aren't because they only slow the game down(which slowing the game down is the exact opposite of Warframes' design concept - a fast paced, third person shooter, with l00t, a wide variety of weapons, and upgrades)

 

 

.....?   Where the hell have you been lol what do you think instigated armor/damage 2.0 and the AI changes it necessitates & facilitates....

[ChameleonDude]

It was a fair comparison to make. And hopefully, like the damage/Ai changes, there'll be a fix here too.

[Bibliothekar]

Unless there's some magical way to [...] create life support drops from thin air;

Nekros' Desecrate. But yeah, Life Support drops from enemies are just too random to be really useful. And being forced to bring a Nekros with you just in case - can't be a solution either, can it?

[Dracosaber]

Nekros' Desecrate. But yeah, Life Support drops from enemies are just too random to be really useful. And being forced to bring a Nekros with you just in case - can't be a solution either, can it?

 

^^^....yeah, for now, I would say try to find a Nekros, he is pretty useful in Survival due to Desecrate. Still, something needs to be done about the drop rate of the Oxygen in the Void. I played a couple of 5 minute games and even that was difficult at times due to the drops. If there hadn't been the Lotus Life Support, we wouldn't have made it a few of those times, and that was barely. 

[CephBuddy]

Most frames maxed and potatoed, most weapons unlocked and favourites potatoed and formaed. I have the gear and I do know how to play.

 

Again, these missions aren't a challenge to me. A challenge would be enemies with some difficulty to them and tactics needed to fight, instead of bullet sponges. The problem I'm talking about is clearing a few hundred enemies and seeing a couple of life supports at best. This is not skill or gear related, this is sheer bad luck.

Obviously not. My Volt is only level 9 and I've traveled throughout the 15 min void missions with my clan. Seriously, if you say you can play, but can't beat a Void Survival, get gud. Spoiled Grandmasters...

[Dasmir]

Sry but : 

 

Learn 2 Play!

 

WoW best argument ever for a mode totally based in RNG, pretty much survival is all about having a nekros in you team spaming dece or losing cuz bad luck with O2 cans or low enemies spawn rate.

[taiiat]

but can't beat a Void Survival

i'd like to see you beat an infinite length gamemode too. 

 

tell me when you get to the end. 

 

 

.....?   Where the hell have you been lol what do you think instigated armor/damage 2.0 and the AI changes it necessitates & facilitates....

i don't know what you are talking about because you quoted my whole post, instead of quoting only what pertained to what you replied to. 

your post was too ambiguous for me to understand what it was you were replying to. 

i assume the second segment, but i can't actually tell. 

[ChameleonDude]

Seriously, if you say you can play, but can't beat a Void Survival, get gud.

 

What does my ability to play have to do with drop rates? Loving the only argument against fixing pure chance seems to be "item drops for me, you suck".

 

I'm glad that this thread is just to point something out to DE and not to gather support for something. O_o

[CephBuddy]

What does my ability to play have to do with drop rates? Loving the only argument against fixing pure chance seems to be "item drops for me, you suck".

 

I'm glad that this thread is just to point something out to DE and not to gather support for something. O_o

If you complain about Void Drops, just check the datamines on the wiki. I heard that the latest drop tables were encrypted, but still, the old ones should give you enough of a hint to know what to farm for.

Edited October 13, 2013 by [DE]Megan
Insulting

[ChameleonDude]

If you complain about Void Drops, just check the datamines on the wiki. I heard that the latest drop tables were encrypted, but still, the old ones should give you enough of a hint to know what to farm for. It's not hard; you just suck.

 

That's great, except I'm talking about the life support drops from the enemies, not the end loot. I'm well aware of the wiki and have always looked over the drop tables so I know what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Not that I'm expecting much from these forums now anyway.

[CephBuddy]

That's great, except I'm talking about the life support drops from the enemies, not the end loot. I'm well aware of the wiki and have always looked over the drop tables so I know what I'm doing and why I'm doing it. Not that I'm expecting much from these forums now anyway.

Use an AOE frame, only pick up life support drops when under 90%, and only use your support towers when you're below 60%. The support boxes rain like polluted water for me, so I can't understand your issue.

[ChameleonDude]

The support boxes rain like polluted water for me, so I can't understand your issue.

 

That pretty much sums it up. They don't rain like polluted water for me, there's a drought. I can clear a large number of enemies in seconds with an AoE skill or powerful weapon, they don't drop. It's down to luck, which is what I'm asking to be changed. Some players can get through with ease due to luck; while others won't see a life support drop after several minutes of slaughtering due to luck.

 

Also, I do know not to waste the larger life supports, since they're essentially the only kind I can reliably get.

Edited October 10, 2013 by ChameleonDude

[Bibliothekar]

The support boxes rain like polluted water for me, so I can't understand your issue.

The amount of support dropped by fallen enemies depends

a) on the mission's level (T1 drops more than T2 drops more than T3)

b) on RNG

 

So if you're playing T3 and have bad luck, you might face a serious drought.

[Relkin]

i'd like to see you beat an infinite length gamemode too. 

 

tell me when you get to the end. 

 

 

i don't know what you are talking about because you quoted my whole post, instead of quoting only what pertained to what you replied to. 

your post was too ambiguous for me to understand what it was you were replying to. 

i assume the second segment, but i can't actually tell. 

>_> pretty obvious what I was responding too - you're whole omg I'm not the only one who thinks bullet sponges are bad and AI and other related things need be reworked circle jerky thing.  Because you know, my post wasn't remotely contextual to anything else.

[notionphil]

i'm not one of those 'L2P' spouting people, normally, but...I gotta say, I've maybe faced the problem of running out of O2 prior to 15 mins 5% or less of the time. Even those times have generally been with very poorly equipped PUGs. The biggest challenge I've faced in survival was getting my teammates to not extract randomly before the agreed upon time.

 

Have you tried:

 

1) running from room to room to check for new enemies when spawns start to slow

2) not hitting the life support until under 40% or so, so that small O2 drops always count?

[SaintLucifer]

So much "fun" to fight 15 min to end getting another dam Latron part . -_-