15 Minute Survival - Impossible For Some

[ChameleonDude]

Have you tried:

 

1) running from room to room to check for new enemies when spawns start to slow

2) not hitting the life support until under 40% or so, so that small O2 drops always count?

 

Thanks for actually being civil about it, but yes, I do do these things. As hard as it is to believe, I can play the game. The reason I'm proposing pseudo-random is so that the actual difficulty stays the same, just the luck element taken out for those of use cursed by the RNG gods. I can go in with a PUG or friends, all in gear ranging from perfectly fine to plain broken; most rooms being under near-constant surveillance, enemies melting like butter, large Lotus life support drops being used appropriately - and maybe a couple of life support drops over a few minutes.

[taiiat]

Because you know, my post wasn't remotely contextual to anything else.

ah. it wasn't very contextual at all. meaning doesn't translate well through communication, only what is said. 

i've seen far less than 1% of the Warframe community actually understand any of the issues with the game. 

 

in any thread i bring up the issue of zero difficulty - every post after that in the thread basically sums up to 'no brah those enemies are hard! they take so much longer to kill man, that's so hard'.

it's like listening to a bunch of Facebook groupies complain that their grind simulator is really challenging. >.>

 

 

on topic:

a Clannie and i coincidentally did a TIII Survival last night. we came close to not making 15 minutes. now, i know a big factor is because my Clannie wanted to hue and he brought Ash and just ran around swinging at things with Galatine the entire match - forcing me to carry him. 

but aside from that, the Oxygen drops were not exactly plentiful. we used all of the support pods, and picking up all of the Oxygen - but despite that, at the 14 minute mark, we were under 10%. and we were under 10% for the next entire minute. 

it certainly would've gone better if my Clannie hadn't deliberately been an idiot, but it was still extremely close. the weapons we had with us were far from subpar, so it was a fluke that Oxygen dropped that badly.

 

the issue, is that all of these randoms, don't have basic boundaries to keep it from being too 'good' or too 'bad'. same story with bosses dropping Warframe parts. the biggest issue wasn't that the boss didn't have a 100% chance to drop a part - but rather, it was simply random to drop a part or not, without any boundaries - such as random, but, recieving a Warframe part reduces the chance to receive that part every time it is recieved(for X number of hours), receiving one or two parts repeatedly slowly increasing chance to receive another part, etc. 

small changes to keep random from being just 'nope!' to some players. because we all know that there's been plenty of reports of the game just saying 'nope!' to them. 

'course, another option would be every single enemy dropping a far weaker Oxygen thingy, but that's less varied and interesting, IMO.

[Workaround]

The failure to understand the problem in this thread is amazing. Running out of oxygen in t3 survivals even though you kill every enemy and do not waste any oxygen simply should not happen. The fact that it's even possible means the level is broken and needs fixing. I've seen this happen multiple times and the reason is generally because of spawning bugs - there's just not enough enemies to kill to generate the life support you need. You stand around for minutes with nothing to shoot even if you run all over the tower.  I've seen what the OP describes once also - a decent number enemies, but no life support packs spawning

 

The failure condition for survival should be tied to killing enemies and using life support capsules properly. If you use capsules too soon, you run out of oxygen and fail.  If you don't kill all the enemies, you run out of oxygen and fail, or they overwhelm you. 

 

If you don't misuse life support and you kill all the enemies then failure should not be possible, at least not before the 15 minute mark. But it is. That is a problem. 

 

All of you  saying it's a skill issue are flat-out stupid.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Workaround

[Loser]

Tried survival missions, haven't found enemies there, forgot they existed... same for void survivals.

Something should be done ofc.

[BonneyZILLA]

The 15 minutes run is not so bad unless you are hiding and not doing enough killings to get the life support drops from enemies.

 

My advice is to get a good weapon and a good team to get lots of kills so that you may last longer in the game.

[Xylia]

I did a 20min Apollodorus (the lowest level Survival available) and a 25min Apollodorus.

 

In both of them, right near the 18min mark was non-stop Heavy Unit spawns.

 

Napalms, Heavy Gunners, Bombards EVERYWHERE.

 

I was in a Rhino, maxed Iron Skin, a Soma capable of killing anything in seconds, and... well my melee doesn't matter; I had near-infinite ammo because I had a Rifle Ammo Mutation mod on my Soma.

 

We survived 25:10 or thereabouts, right about the 23:00 mark we decided to stick the other 2 minutes out, and we headed towards the exit.

 

My God... there were Heavies EVERYWHERE! It was ridiculous. There was so much freaking gunfire, Napalm blasts, etc that my Iron Skin (1200 damage!) was going down faster than I could locate and pick up energy balls. We had a 4-man team there, and two of them got knocked out. I managed to revive one, but my friend got knocked out. I made a mad dash for the exit, we barely got 25min and I had 50 health left.

 

............on a freaking RHINO.

 

...........ON THE LOWEST LEVEL SURVIVAL IN THE GAME.

 

That's just a tad ridiculous.

[taiiat]

-snip-

That's just a tad ridiculous.

Napalms can deal ~600dmg at Lv20. with a like, 15m AoE radius. that hits through walls.

and Scorchers seem to have the same Ignis that clantech does. they have a 20m range, with puncture. they can shoot you through walls. 

[Bibliothekar]

@Xylia: That's why I only take Nyx to Tower Survival. At some time around 15 minutes, there is a point where the level is flooded with Drones (accompanied by Minigunners and Fusion Moas, but those are not as many). So I try to lure as many of them as I can, hop into my bubble, and wait ...

However, this thread originally was about the problem of enemies sometimes not dropping enough life support, players being screwed by RNGods.

[WanderoftheAether]

@Xylia: That's why I only take Nyx to Tower Survival. At some time around 15 minutes, there is a point where the level is flooded with Drones (accompanied by Minigunners and Fusion Moas, but those are not as many). So I try to lure as many of them as I can, hop into my bubble, and wait ...

However, this thread originally was about the problem of enemies sometimes not dropping enough life support, players being screwed by RNGods.

That and the fact that Lotus just doesn't send the life support quickly enough. If they just drop faster and a little bit more frequently, then it wont be so much a problem. In fact, if you just send the life support quicker, you help to balance out the RNG (or make the wrath of the RNGods a little less painful in this case).

[ChameleonDude]

Here's to still hoping the randomness gets ironed out a little bit.

 

The 15 minutes run is not so bad unless you are hiding and not doing enough killings to get the life support drops from enemies.

 

My advice is to get a good weapon and a good team to get lots of kills so that you may last longer in the game.

 

Killing everything, looking for more to kill, not hiding, maxed gear formaed several times over. Thanks for the advice, but it's irrelevant unless there's a 'good weapon' that harvests the oxygen from the lungs of my enemies... if they decide to spawn.

[LxLawliet]

Sry but : 

 

Learn 2 Pray!

 

Fixed that for you.

 

The original quote stated "Learn 2 Play", to which all I can say is this:

 

Because you totally have to learn how to play with RNG being everywhere.

Edited October 13, 2013 by LxLawliet

[Ayraclus]

The failure to understand the problem in this thread is amazing. Running out of oxygen in t3 survivals even though you kill every enemy and do not waste any oxygen simply should not happen. The fact that it's even possible means the level is broken and needs fixing. I've seen this happen multiple times and the reason is generally because of spawning bugs - there's just not enough enemies to kill to generate the life support you need. You stand around for minutes with nothing to shoot even if you run all over the tower.  I've seen what the OP describes once also - a decent number enemies, but no life support packs spawning

 

The failure condition for survival should be tied to killing enemies and using life support capsules properly. If you use capsules too soon, you run out of oxygen and fail.  If you don't kill all the enemies, you run out of oxygen and fail, or they overwhelm you. 

 

If you don't misuse life support and you kill all the enemies then failure should not be possible, at least not before the 15 minute mark. But it is. That is a problem. 

 

All of you  saying it's a skill issue are flat-out stupid.

 

This. From the beggining to "All of you saying it's a skill issue are flat-out stupid."

[zibbizor]

please fix void survival, there isn't enough capsules. I had to leave at 13 minutes twice because the enemies refused to drop any oxygen.

[NightBorz]

i don't know what the problem is but my best times are 30min in normal Suverial (enemies lvl 100), T1-T3 20 til 30 minutes. I did it solo and i could do more but i dont do it. The Major thing is u must be a little bet clever for this mod u must know which weappons, warframe or PET do u take with u. Yeah i know its hard to do it solo by the lvl 100 enemies but this is only the way that u can thinking which mistakes u do.

 

(sry for my english i know its not very well).

[drMightyPotato]

Here is my two cents about survival:

First of i made a post about this a while ago (i think i was among the firsts but nvm) so i know your pain with this.

Here i have my 3 survival runs (recent ones): in the first survival it was a void mission. Me on a rhino and 15 mins in, runing from one end of the tower to the next trying to keep the blasted O2 meter above 50%. Me and my mates spammed our 4 abilites (a nyx, 2 rhinos and a ash) just so we can get two O2 drops from 20 enemies (O2: 15%, time 25 mins, barely)  -_-

                                                                      

                                                                       - in the second survival i barely had to try to keep the O2 above 90%, there was plenty of it around (O2: 90%, time: 35 mins)

                                      

                                                                       - in the third survival something odd happend, me and 2 good pugs ran around looking for Lotus pods (O2 was at about 70%), no mobs what-so-ever. One of our mates was near the start and when we came back we noticed that he was literaly swarming with mobs and there were barely ANY O2 drops (O2: 30%, time: 20 mins)

 

These are just some examples. Its doable to go on longer than 15 mins with low drops but that doesnt remove the fact that its so RNG that id have more chance in winning a lottery than getting any air drops. 

Saying 'L2P' in a RNG game like is just showing that:1. kids should learn to keep their mouth shut if they dont have anything good to say; and 2. L2T (learn to think)

[Pure]

Obviously not. My Volt is only level 9 and I've traveled throughout the 15 min void missions with my clan. Seriously, if you say you can play, but can't beat a Void Survival, get gud. Spoiled Grandmasters...

 

lol so you say get good and your clan carried you in the mission.  he should just find people to carry him, but then that makes you bad if you have to get carried.

[hyperblaster]

Wonder if the lack of support drops from enemies has to do with the number of players. I played a bunch of survivals this weekend, and did not have issues until the 20min mark. However, I always played with full team of 3 other players. This means the maximum number of enemies spawn. More enemies = more life support drops.

 

Further, in the first ten minutes or so, we usually spread out across the map trying to get as many kills as possible. The goal is to finish the first ten minutes with 2-3 Lotus life support drops in reserve. This is significantly easier with the Neros in the team, but not mandatory. You can increase the amount of enemies spawning if you clear whole rooms and move between them. Huddling close to drop as a group in turn means fewer will spawn. What you do need is a couple of heavy hitters in your team (e.g. nova, mag), that can clear entire spawns in seconds roaming the map. It's only past the 15-20min mark that enemy levels rise high enough that you need to cluster together to make sure no one dies. Given how rewards stack up, you might as well leave at this point as the effort to survive beyond that likely isn't worth it.

[luciferiansama]

I did a 20min Apollodorus (the lowest level Survival available) and a 25min Apollodorus.

 

In both of them, right near the 18min mark was non-stop Heavy Unit spawns.

 

Napalms, Heavy Gunners, Bombards EVERYWHERE.

 

I was in a Rhino, maxed Iron Skin, a Soma capable of killing anything in seconds, and... well my melee doesn't matter; I had near-infinite ammo because I had a Rifle Ammo Mutation mod on my Soma.

 

We survived 25:10 or thereabouts, right about the 23:00 mark we decided to stick the other 2 minutes out, and we headed towards the exit.

 

My God... there were Heavies EVERYWHERE! It was ridiculous. There was so much freaking gunfire, Napalm blasts, etc that my Iron Skin (1200 damage!) was going down faster than I could locate and pick up energy balls. We had a 4-man team there, and two of them got knocked out. I managed to revive one, but my friend got knocked out. I made a mad dash for the exit, we barely got 25min and I had 50 health left.

 

............on a freaking RHINO.

 

...........ON THE LOWEST LEVEL SURVIVAL IN THE GAME.

 

That's just a tad ridiculous.

 

 

^ this this this and they scale the level up a lot faster now, at 20 minutes i'm fighitng lvl 80 bombers :/

 

[shoryukensama]

i dunno about you but my brother and i play for around 30 mins just the 2 of us on survival missions no problem at all. t2 void that is.

[FrostWolf]

... It seems that Survival is very much up to the Enemy faction and Map

 

 

Example

 

 

Most people don't have many problems getting the 15 minute mark on say Mercury against the Grineer,

 

 

Saturn  with the infested is still doable though it takes bit to start.

 

 

Jupiter though... the issue seems to be that the Infested and the Corpus ship just screws the holy hell out of their mapping

 

 

It basically why Grineer Mobile Defenses are more popular then the Corpus... The Corpus ones the AI bugs out and stops throwing enemies or they get stuck

 

Same principle.... The big drops seem to be based on kills, not timed intervals.

[Fulmir]

Void specifically seems to have a few problems with Survival. The other three factions, while somewhat inconsistent in difficulty (Infested anyone?) are all easier right now, regardless of enemy difficulty, than T3 Void Survival for a few reasons:

Corrupted Ospreys and Fusion MOAs do not drop Oxygen. I've never seen it happen despite Ospreys being one of the most common enemy types after 10 minutes second only to the two basic varieties of Corrupted. Since these are also two of the most dangerous enemies if left alive and make up somewhere around 1/3rd to 1/4th of spawns this can severely throw off your Oxygen levels.

 

The spawns are really inconsistent. I've had missions going fine only for the room the Capsules are spawning in to change and suddenly the enemies dry up to nothing or almost nothing and you're left to starve out. Seems to happen really frequently between 11 and 13 minutes for some reason, though it has happened earlier.

 

About half of the enemies in the Void have fairly high HP and Armor which slows things down considerably on T3 past 10 minutes. Not a problem in and of itself, just one more thing on top of the other issues with enemy spawns and Oxygen drops.

 

---

 

Overall right now it feels like Void Survivals specifically but also other survivals to a lesser extent, are the player fighting against hidden secondary game mechanics like spawn behavior and the drop chance of Oxygen from said enemies, rather than the primary threat being the actual enemies and the situations they create. The things needed to win Void Survival right now all boil down to abuse of spawn mechanics and to a lesser extent a Necros to get extra Life Support drops from downed enemies.

 

Spawns and enemy pathing to the players needs to be cleaned up and made more consistent and Life Support drops and what drops them needs to be adjusted or flat re-evaluated. Getting a clutch save of Life Support drops feels great, losing because you just mowed down 20 guys and didn't get a single drop sucks.

[Calayne]

So true, fella. Now, I can only solo up to just less than, or up to 15 minutes in a low level infested Survival mission. The stupid thing is that it's mostly because I ran out of enemies and had to go to extraction or risk suffocating to death, and not because I ran out of ammo or whatnot. It's pretty consistent, too.

 

I'm not sure why it's this way, and I did notice a huge change from the previous versions of Survival. Back then, there were hordes of enemies chasing after me, and those times, extraction was really sometimes more of a means to escape death by bullet-holes rather than choking in my own suit.

 

So is it me, or is Tyl Regor suddenly making a lot of sense? We're being choked out like a rubber chicken.

[lonelydrone]

what i think:

survival must be a SURVIVAL, fihgting for YOUR LIFE; not to just fihgt untill a timer says you to leave or lose.

 

in my opinion:

 

-REMOVE the oxygen thing.

-make the enemy scaling faster (just a bit).

-let the player leave at any time.

-let us fihgt to SURVIVE.

-drop a special unit now and then (let's say... 5 min).(not a boss, or a heavy [duh], but something between, call it a mini-boss if you want.)

for example: u just reached the 30 min mark, the lotus say something like "this is not good, not good at all" (lol), then a pack of mini hyenas (for the corpus) appear (the lotus has always said that the hyena moves in packs, yet we haven't seen a single one of those, so..... duh), an armored grineer with heavy cannons and stuff, or a super fat infested which spits acid at u and creates a huge corrosive xplosion when killed. (you know, somethig to make you say "WHAT THE F*CK IS THAT AND HOW CAN I KILL THAT SH*T?!?!?!?!?!?!")

 

well, even it's true we can call this oxygen mode a "survival"...... c'mon! let us feel cornered by the enemies, not by a timer. let us feel we need to kill to survive, not that we need to kill to maybe get a time extend item.

 

this mode has sooooo much potential.....that it would be sad to let it be just a "beat the timer" mode.

 

lot of hard work? yes / possible? yes..... so , why not?

 

:D

Edited October 15, 2013 by lonelydrone

[Calayne]

Definitely agree, and that definitely sounds like one hell of an awesome idea. Something to mix it up rather than just an army of heavies. Maybe some reinforcements for us, too, to spice things up. Since there's gonna be a Escort mission with a droid (lol) that will shoot with you, and since we can already summon allies with Nekros, why not also drop in some troops to aid us? Small pockets of shock troops, to help us deal with an ever-increasing horde of enemies.

 

This would be epic. And games are all about Epic, aren't they?

[fatpig84]

Trinity together with Nekro.

We did 20mins for lulz.