Stop Hobbling Solo Players.

[killchamp]

i have to play solo most of the time because of my horrid connection, so i wouldn't mind taking multiple keys. 

[Eidolon_Slayer]

You don't need to bring the hobble key when you're soloing vault.

[Psroij]

Echoing all the people in this thread who pointed out that forming reliable groups is tedious/not always possible.

 

I appreciate that DE is trying to encourage/force more co-op in Warframe, I do, but right now the system for actually forming a reliable group can be an exercise in frustration. For people who are clanless, or in small clans, it can be a real pain in the &#! to coordinate keys/inventory before starting a mission; this is on top of the tediousness of just trying to invite random people from chat to get a mission started, and then having to re-invite them after each successful mission —unless I seem to be the only one whose non-pug groups automatically disband after a successful mission, requiring a whole new round of invites from the host.

 

In my opinion, until DE makes the matchmaking/grouping/invite mechanics more streamlined/friendlier, and make it faster and easier to coordinate mission specific items (corruptors/dragon keys) they should quit trying to "encourage" co-op with shared key item mechanics. Making it quicker to adjust inventory during the mission select screen when in a group would be one way to do that, and giving a little UI symbol next to a person's name to show which key item they have would be another.

[Mak_Gohae]

in games where the main thing is co-op you shouldn't expect for solo players to accomplish the same thing a group of players can in the same amount of time.

[EirikAura]

If the network issues were fixed we wouldn't need to worry so much. Half the time I can't join/host a squad cause my NAT doesn't want to play. This is a problem that DE have known about for how long now? But still they force either co-op or much lower chances of success onto soloists.

 

Not all of us WANT to solo. Some HAVE to due to the NAT issues all these updates have so far ignored.

[Unknown924]

in games where the main thing is co-op you shouldn't expect for solo players to accomplish the same thing a group of players can in the same amount of time.

People in a group would still have a huge advantage even if solo players were able to equip all four keys. For starters the solo player would lose 3/4ths of their health, shields, and damage. A balanced group of 4 would loose less than 1/4th of theirs. Heck, assuming equal damage from each player, a group of 4 would have 3.25/.25 = 13 times the damage of a solo player.

What I think DE should do is make rewards for solo players the base and increase them for groups.

EX A solo player with a key will always find a vault they can open. A group of players will find multiple vaults. One of the ones they can open will have the target, the others will have extra rewards such as rare resources. In fact,I think making each extra vault contain a guarantied rare resource or a rare(non-skill) mod would work very well.

Or keys could be tied to certain rewards. That way players could decide what they want to farm for. There could be a key each for rare resources and rare mods with another key that can give either of them.

Making the rare resource an Orokin cell would be a good idea and fit with the theme of Orokin Vaults.

[Ferriwind]

I wanna see someone try this. Equipping all keys.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Stygi

[-Kittens-]

I wanna see someone try this. Equipping all keys.

 

Would if I could, if any but like four of the mods were even worth equipping.

[Stakhanov]

in games where the main thing is co-op you shouldn't expect for solo players to accomplish the same thing a group of players can in the same amount of time.

I merely said that it should be POSSIBLE to achieve the same thing as a group. Even if it has to be 200% harder, I'll still pick doing that over getting a team together any day of the week.

[juuu]

in games where the main thing is co-op you shouldn't expect for solo players to accomplish the same thing a group of players can in the same amount of time.

Even if this is a game that encourages co-op, the solo option is there for flexibility, just in case people can't/don't want to co-op for whatever reason. I also don't understand what you mean for solo players to accomplish the same thing as a group of players can in the same amount of time. If solo players are allowed to equip all four keys to achieve a 100% success rate in opening the vaults, that means they'll take on 4 times the burden. That does not seem like the same amount of accomplishment like playing in a group. That sounds much more difficult, and a fairer tradeoff than the system we have right now. The current system essentially punishes solo players by only allowing them a chance the right vault would appear. 

[Mak_Gohae]

Even if this is a game that encourages co-op, the solo option is there for flexibility, just in case people can't/don't want to co-op for whatever reason. I also don't understand what you mean for solo players to accomplish the same thing as a group of players can in the same amount of time. If solo players are allowed to equip all four keys to achieve a 100% success rate in opening the vaults, that means they'll take on 4 times the burden. That does not seem like the same amount of accomplishment like playing in a group. That sounds much more difficult, and a fairer tradeoff than the system we have right now. The current system essentially punishes solo players by only allowing them a chance the right vault would appear. 

 

Dude, equip Loki and you can run through a whole stage without being touched.

Hek, just equip shade and run though the stage without shooting and you are fine.

 

These dont hinder folks that much if you actual prepare for them.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[HailCreation]

There comes a point in time where people have to crawl out from under their rock and socialize. I know, I know, it's terrifying. 

Give me a break. 

 

The vast majority of the time people don't bother talking to each other anyway. 

[EirikAura]

Dude, equip Loki and you can run through a whole stage without being touched.

Hek, just equip shade and run though the stage without shooting and you are fine.

 

These dont hinder folks that much if you actual prepare for them.

Where's the fun in that? I just want an equal opportunity to gain from the game when it forces me to solo. Encourage co-op, sure. Don't nerf us because the network system this game uses means we CAN'T co-op reliably.

[EirikAura]

Give me a break. 

 

The vast majority of the time people don't bother talking to each other anyway. 

Quote for true...

[Mak_Gohae]

Where's the fun in that? I just want an equal opportunity to gain from the game when it forces me to solo. Encourage co-op, sure. Don't nerf us because the network system this game uses means we CAN'T co-op reliably.

 

Pretty sure you are not being nerfed because of a connection.

Mainly co-op games always have solo players have a harder hill to climb.

If you are there because connections issues it sucks but they are not going to balance the whole game around that.

[merryfistmas]

I don't like the idea of solo players doing everything solo and gets everything solo

 

>in a coop game<

Why do you care? It doesn't effect you at all.

[escape123]

Lol that would actually be a very cool concept<br />if you carry all 4 keys, u get all 4 penalties

[Xylia]

Pretty sure you are not being nerfed because of a connection.

Mainly co-op games always have solo players have a harder hill to climb.

If you are there because connections issues it sucks but they are not going to balance the whole game around that.

 

The problem is, allowing a Solo Player to carry 2-4 keys himself IS giving him a "harder hill to climb". -75% Shields, -75% Health, -75% Damage is a pretty stiff debuff, along with -50% speed if you even take along the hobbled key too.

 

It isn't like Solo Players would be given a free pass; it'd just make it so they didn't have to check the mission, find the wrong door, abort, try again until it gives them the right door. It would just save a little Time.

[Darkseal]

+1... I like running with my fellow dojo members and all, it's tons-o-fun! But, if I only have 20 minutes to want to try to get some gaming in I'd REALLY like the ability to hunt down a rare mod using the dragon keys. It's take 20 minutes sometimes to just get 4 people together that want to do the same thing you want, get the right keys equipped, and hit the PLAY NOW button.

[Loswaith]

I personally agree, its not like these missions actually require co-operation or team work in any sence of the matter.  You still dont have to work togeather to actually reach the goal.  Its false co-operation, sure you need 4 players (to get in a vault 100% of the time) but thats the only part you actually need to work togeather at all.

 

As it stands its like saying a carpenter, plumber, plasterer and painter work co-operativly to build a house.  They really dont, each has thier own aspect to do for one goal of building the house, but they dont do the work togeather (outside of their small teams) anymore than you need to work togeather in warframe.

 

Let one person carry all the keys (personally I think it would be better for teamwork if only one person could carry any keys), even in groups, the players now need to actually work togeather to see that that one person actually gets to the vault in one piece.  Kinda like an escort mission but the person your escorting is controlled by a player (so not completly stupid).  If you want to restrict it further, reduce respawns per key carried (so no respanes for the person carrying all keys).

 

Sure you dont have to have one person carry all the keys, which will actually make it easier, but kinda makes it less reason to work as a team too.

 

As it stands its likely that, 3 players run off to find the vault leaving the slowed one to solo anyway, because they simply cant keep up.

 

Keep in mind:

 - There are more spawns per player while solo than in a 4 person group

 - groups are automatically disbanded at the end of key missions

 - invites dont always work unless someone is on your friends or clan lists

 - players with good systems have hosting issues or issues when 4 people are in a group

 - players dont want to be the slow one, and likely not the reduced shields/damage one either

 - players will race ahead, just in case their key does work, then just wait for others if it doesnt (this already happens on locked doors).

Edited October 11, 2013 by Loswaith

[bobafetthotmail]

I'm ready to bet that if they made a decent (decent!) player matching system that manages to take over from the total and utter rubbish the current chat with FRIGGIN TERMINAL COMMANDS is, they could get more people to play multiplayer without these kindergarden tricks.

[Talinoth]

It sounds like a really good idea.

- It still gives you an incentive to find a team (spreading out the debuffs instead of you having ALL of them at once), and

- Completing an Orokin mission can be hard enough already solo, but with those debuffs, it would be TERRIFYINGLY hard.

- So it hardly gives solo players an "advantage" at all. Just more flexibility.

 

The solo player would complete the level much more slowly, and would encounter much more difficulty. The team of 4, would naturally steamroll right to the end and loot the vault easily.

 

It'd be great if we had that flexibility. Bring on holding multiple keys at once! Because honestly, the online component here is kind of bad, and I usually don't need backup at all. The exceptions to this are

- Assassination alerts (level 55+ Jackal is SCARY)

- Mandatory defense missions (I run Loki - my utility is through the roof, my dps is not, so I can't even make it to Wave 5 without the cryopod dying)

- Mandatory Grineer survival missions (there's just something about those guys...)

- Some boss fights, especially if I've only just unlocked them. I needed backup with Vay Hek the first time because I couldn't kill his shields quickly enough.

 

Otherwise, I would prefer to not have to work with other people, despite the fact that I actually like interacting with them.

 

This is because co-op, quite frankly, is a pain in the &amp;#&#33;.

 

Peer-to-peer connection sounds like a great thing on paper, and a perfect idea for a perfect world, but having the quality of your gameplay depend so closely on the quality of another player's hardware and connection is, quite simply, absolutely &#036;&amp;*&amp;*#(%&amp; because oftentimes other players don't have good connections (it gets worse because I play in the Oceanic region - Australian internet is incredibly bad), I feel bad because my own hardware and connection isn't great either and I'm probably ruining someone elses' experience when I host, and in either of these scenarios, it makes for a crappy game where Grineer Lancers or Corrupted Heavy Gunners are teleporting around and instagibbing people.

 

I like working with other people, I really do. And admittedly, more than 50% of the time, it's still a bit laggy, but otherwise fine. But the first emotion on my mind when I team up with people shouldn't be fear, you know? It should be relief that I can actually get through this frigging defense mission with some dignity intact. (I HATE defense missions, lol)

 

Another thing that grinds my gears here a bit, is that, like putting together a normal Void mission, such as a T3 Mobile Defense or something, you've got to actively go scouting for party members. And manually invite them. And this can take ages. And again, I'm assailed by the fear that it's all going to be a laggy slugfest, it takes ages to setup... it's painful.

 

...

 

Anyway, my point is, we should be able to solo the content and get guaranteed rewards if we want to. I think I and many other people are also willing to put up with the difficulty spike in exchange for phat l00tz and the sanctuary from the lagfest that is Online.

[Mainabi]

Why do you care? It doesn't effect you at all.

if there's too much cry about solo play although solo play is just an option not focussed on, they might rethink it and don't care about fixing the netcode etc since the solo play will suffice, also they might focus on making solo content making it super easy on solo and won't add anything to coop or make the experience in coop better, so yes it will affect me

[Talinoth]

if there's too much cry about solo play although solo play is just an option not focussed on, they might rethink it and don't care about fixing the netcode etc since the solo play will suffice, also they might focus on making solo content making it super easy on solo and won't add anything to coop or make the experience in coop better, so yes it will affect me

 

Aside from having to do some very specific missions, or assassination alerts that are far above my level, I am quite fine with the difficulty of solo play, tyvm. The challenge is nice.

 

All people are asking is to have the option of taking 3-4 keys at once. It makes things far less annoying for the guy with 4 keys when he gets to the end - but of course, getting to the end will be MUCH harder, MORE than 4x harder than having buddies of your own skill level assist you.

 

All this means, is making this content reasonably soloable without having to pray to the RNG god every time to give you a vault that just happens to match your one and only key.

 

I honestly don't think you'd be threatened by this. At all. The matter of DE fixing their netcode is quite frankly a matter that is (while connected to this one, because it's what mainly stops us from wanting to team up with people in the first place) is also separate. It's something they'll tackle in a different time and place, if they're going to.

[Mainabi]

Aside from having to do some very specific missions, or assassination alerts that are far above my level, I am quite fine with the difficulty of solo play, tyvm. The challenge is nice.

 

All people are asking is to have the option of taking 3-4 keys at once. It makes things far less annoying for the guy with 4 keys when he gets to the end - but of course, getting to the end will be MUCH harder, MORE than 4x harder than having buddies of your own skill level assist you.

 

All this means, is making this content reasonably soloable without having to pray to the RNG god every time to give you a vault that just happens to match your one and only key.

 

I honestly don't think you'd be threatened by this. At all. The matter of DE fixing their netcode is quite frankly a matter that is (while connected to this one, because it's what mainly stops us from wanting to team up with people in the first place) is also separate. It's something they'll tackle in a different time and place, if they're going to.

the problem is just you can bypass that "challenge" too easily, and I'm pretty sure most people aren't even using the keys as challenge just simply to farm the mods. but nonetheless they shouldn't focus on soloplay at all they should make coop coop worthy if they make promos etc about coop, right now coop isn't rly anything worthy in the game which is rly sad