Demolysts

[kapn655321]

I can not beat Disruption, whatsoever, with any of my preferred loadouts.

^{Inb4 I get flamed into the ground, but whatever. This is my feedback.}

[(PSN)Deeceem]

Take a different loadout. Preferably one that's good at beating disruption.

[kapn655321]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Take a different loadout. Preferably one that's good at beating disruption.

Which of these primaries would you use?:

8 forma Dera Vandal with a Riven.
7 forma Flux Rifle with a Riven.
6 forma Hema with a Riven.
6 forma Miter with a Riven.
5 forma Panthera with a Riven.
8 forma Prisma Gorgon with a Riven.

Take your pick.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

Gerade eben schrieb kapn655321:

Which of these primaries would you use?:

8 forma Dera Vandal with a Riven.
7 forma Flux Rifle with a Riven.
6 forma Hema with a Riven.
6 forma Miter with a Riven.
5 forma Panthera with a Riven.
8 forma Prisma Gorgon with a Riven.

Take your pick.

Neither. I'd take a good melee weapon and Magus Lockdown on my operator.

[kapn655321]

Just now, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Neither. I'd take a good melee weapon and Magus Lockdown on my operator.

A good melee like..

4 forma Ack & Brunt with a Riven.
4 forma Shaku with a Riven..
4 forma Kroostra/Kronsh zaw (no riven)
3 forma Prisma Obex
.. a Halikar? Gunsen? Cobra & Crane? Broken Scepter?

Are you getting the problem here? These enemies aren't balanced for a large swath of weapons in game, regardless of damage types, and all exhaustible options.

All of these weapons can cut through enemies of the same level like butter. Demolysts however, I can whoop on for 100m, and they'll still have over 1/3rd of their health left.

[SpicyDinosaur]

Not every weapon you have will get you through every encounter. The game isn't built like that and it's not wrong in being that way. Otherwise most weapons would be fairly similar and utterly boring.

 

I don't think you are ready for disruptions. Look at some guides on youtube, then revisit it.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 12 Minuten schrieb kapn655321:

A good melee like..

4 forma Ack & Brunt with a Riven.
4 forma Shaku with a Riven..
4 forma Kroostra/Kronsh zaw (no riven)
3 forma Prisma Obex
.. a Halikar? Gunsen? Cobra & Crane? Broken Scepter?

Are you getting the problem here? These enemies aren't balanced for a large swath of weapons in game, regardless of damage types, and all exhaustible options.

All of these weapons can cut through enemies of the same level like butter. Demolysts however, I can whoop on for 100m, and they'll still have over 1/3rd of their health left.

Yeah, I wish I could clear everything with an MK1-Braton too. I understood the "issue", but you apparently not so much my responses. Where's your post about Condrixes regarding this or the Profit Taker or Eidolons?

Edited April 17, 2020 by (PS4)Deeceem

[kapn655321]

3 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Not every weapon you have will get you through every encounter. The game isn't built like that and it's not wrong in being that way. Otherwise most weapons would be fairly similar and utterly boring.

 

I don't think you are ready for disruptions. Look at some guides on youtube, then revisit it.

I disagree here.

Is it better for a weapon to have been a waste of development time and a player's forma/catalyst/riven as they are now, or to be similar in DPS to comparable options?

I know how to shoot a thing. You listen for them, get familiar with their spawn points, and hunt them down. I don't need youtube to tell me that.

If I've been on this game for over 5 years, and I'm, "not ready," for a basic starchart mission, but can beat the entire rest of the game with the same weapons.. I don't think that's just operator error.

[kapn655321]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Yeah, I wish I could clear everything with MK1-Braton too. I understood the "issue", but you apparently not so much my responses.

This is a star chart mission, not a set dungeon. Should there be an entrance requirement for Magus Lockdown to be equipped, and some meta loadout, it would be understandable.

I understand that a player can use a higher DPS loadout that trivializes a specific mission. I see that as a crutch that vastly depreciates the experience I have in game. Why play a game node if I'm not going to enjoy the combat? Because it arbitrarily gates things to a specific subset of weapons? I don't agree with that.

[SpicyDinosaur]

1 minute ago, kapn655321 said:

This is a star chart mission, not a set dungeon. Should there be an entrance requirement for Magus Lockdown to be equipped, and some meta loadout, it would be understandable.

I understand that a player can use a higher DPS loadout that trivializes a specific mission. I see that as a crutch that vastly depreciates the experience I have in game. Why play a game node if I'm not going to enjoy the combat? Because it arbitrarily gates things to a specific subset of weapons? I don't agree with that.

if you hobble yourself on purpose then why are you upset when what you are doing isn't working?

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 5 Minuten schrieb kapn655321:

This is a star chart mission, not a set dungeon. Should there be an entrance requirement for Magus Lockdown to be equipped, and some meta loadout, it would be understandable.

I understand that a player can use a higher DPS loadout that trivializes a specific mission. I see that as a crutch that vastly depreciates the experience I have in game. Why play a game node if I'm not going to enjoy the combat? Because it arbitrarily gates things to a specific subset of weapons? I don't agree with that.

Your first point definitely holds some merit I suppose, especially for newer players who simply might not have the arsenal to deal with it despite running into it on Mars (?) for the first time. Your second point is a you-problem however, which has to do with your unwillingness to adapt within the given requirements.

Edited April 17, 2020 by (PS4)Deeceem

[kapn655321]

Just now, SpicyDinosaur said:

if you hobble yourself on purpose then why are you upset when what you are doing isn't working?

I do not see it as hobbling myself. I don't pick these things because they're bad, I pick them because they feel the best.

I have a reasonable expectation that if they can consume the same means of becoming powerful as all other weapons in game, and don't, then they have been poorly designed, or the content is poorly balanced around them.

If a player can just Saryn + Galatine Prime through everything, and nothing else works.. then why do literal hundreds of inept options, or thousands of inept permutations exist? Why are there options at all, if they're designed to fail? ...And more over.. why cost us valuable resources or irl currency to fail?

[kapn655321]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Your first point definitely holds some merit I suppose, especially for newer players who simply don't have the arsenal to deal with it despite running into it on Mars (?) for the first time. Your second point is a you-problem however, which has to do with your unwillingness to adapt within the given requirements.

Is it adaptation to be required to use a DPS meta for a basic mission, or is that symptomatic of poor balance?

Edited April 17, 2020 by kapn655321

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 4 Minuten schrieb kapn655321:

Is it adaptation to use a DPS meta for a basic mission, or is that symptomatic of poor balance?

Having a weapon equipped that is more suited than others to deal with the challenge ahead of you is common game design. Or do you also ask if modding toxin against corpus is symptomatic for poor balance? There will always be "the best" for a mission as long as there are different stats on your gear.

Edited April 17, 2020 by (PS4)Deeceem

[kapn655321]

Let me try to explain this.. Warframe to me, is my playing my Hydroid, (because he feels like what I want in a game,) with weapons that I enjoy, (for the same reason.)

If I have to stop enjoying my options to cheese something, it's a chore, and not a fun time. I'm here to have fun, and that cannot be had for a surprising amount of combinations I otherwise enjoy in the Entire rest of Warframe, and have for half a decade (barring Railjack.)

To use a cheesy cookie cutter DPS loadout I got from youtube, results in a feel to the game that I do not enjoy, and will not spend my free time playing.

I am not here to optimize a collectathon. I'm here because I love the feel of Warframe.. except when these things come up that are so Drastically off the mark.

[Volkeris]

 

4 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

Let me try to explain this.. Warframe to me, is my playing my Hydroid, (because he feels like what I want in a game,) with weapons that I enjoy, (for the same reason.)

If I have to stop enjoying my options to cheese something, it's a chore, and not a fun time. I'm here to have fun, and that cannot be had for a surprising amount of combinations I otherwise enjoy in the Entire rest of Warframe, and have for half a decade (barring Railjack.)

To use a cheesy cookie cutter DPS loadout I got from youtube, results in a feel to the game that I do not enjoy, and will not spend my free time playing.

I am not here to optimize a collectathon. I'm here because I love the feel of Warframe.. except when these things come up that are so Drastically off the mark.

Just don't play disruption

[kapn655321]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

Having a weapon equipped that is more suited than others to deal with the challenge ahead of you is common game design.

I was using fire and corrosive against armored units, with all of the damage mods I could fit, and pushing beyond that with Rivens.

I don't have the method wrong. There is an arbitrarily steep amount of EHP which antiquates many seemingly viable options from being useful. There is no reason for it, other than to give superiority to an already over-inflated meta crowd, at the cost of anyone valuing build diversity. It's a jarring difference from all other enemies in game. ..In nodes where the enemy level is something I know for Absolute certain I could destroy with Poor elemental alignment on these weapons in Fractions of the time, this particular unit cannot be beaten with correct elemental alignment, 100% armor stripping, status stacking, heavy attacks, multiple entire clips, abilities, and a deep understanding of mechanics from over 5000 hours of in game experience.

Somethin's real wrong.

[(PSN)Deeceem]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb kapn655321:

I have a reasonable expectation that if they can consume the same means of becoming powerful as all other weapons in game, and don't, then they have been poorly designed, or the content is poorly balanced around them.

 

If that's your expectation then there's no discussion to be had on my end. Despite enjoying it.

If your expectation is for every weapon of the, how many, 400 (?), to be able to perform powerful on every starchart mission it's unrealistic, not reasonable. There would be no sense of gear progression through the entire starchart other than through outside means like catalysts, mods and forma if that was the case. Every single weapon you'd craft wouldn't matter for the entire starchart duration.

Anyways, I'm outtie.

Edited April 17, 2020 by (PS4)Deeceem

[kapn655321]

1 minute ago, Volkeris said:

 

Just don't play disruption

I'd like to be able to. I've been all up in this game's star chart for Ages, and I'd like to continue doing so, surely.

It's an excellent game mode in premise. The reward structure is fantastic, the modifiers are interesting, the enemies are unique, the audio cue is a nice touch..

..and they just happen to have the health of something lvl ~150, in nodes meant for lvl 30-50. Wtf and why?

It's an endless mission. Folks can scale up that deep if they want to. I'm ok with the unit having more health than traditional units, by all means. There's a tipping point however, that makes it so players of Many in game options Can Not interface without subjugating their personal style for cheese.

[kapn655321]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Deeceem said:

If that's your expectation then there's no discussion to be had on my end. Despite enjoying it.

If your expectation is for every weapon of the, how many, 400 (?), to be able to perform powerful on every starchart mission it's unrealistic, not reasonable. There would be no sense of gear progression through the entire starchart other than through outside means like catalysts, mods and forma if that was the case. Every single weapon you'd craft wouldn't matter for the entire starchart duration.

Anyways, I'm outtie.

Take care.

Each weapon you craft is learning more about the combat systems, and finding what suits you best. There are upgraded version (like the Prisma Gorgon,) which a player should have the expectation that they're not a booby trap to eat their forma.

Guns are due for a rework, as was enemy health systems. I feel these enemies were overlooked in the enemy health, and those weapons are overdue for an adjustment.

There are better weapons, and that is fine. People will chase optimization if that's their thing. Anything inoptimal does not need to be pointless to work toward in order to make others more appreciable.. being marginally less effective is enough to encourage that playerbase to progress. Marginally. Aside from that, wanting to try new weapons for the sake of experimentation, and mastery rank are also compelling factors. We don't need weapons to be utter failures at the end of 8 forma, a catalyst, and a Riven mod, in order to give purpose to DPS metas.

Edited April 17, 2020 by kapn655321

[Volkeris]

7 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

I'd like to be able to. I've been all up in this game's star chart for Ages, and I'd like to continue doing so, surely.

It's an excellent game mode in premise. The reward structure is fantastic, the modifiers are interesting, the enemies are unique, the audio cue is a nice touch..

..and they just happen to have the health of something lvl ~150, in nodes meant for lvl 30-50. Wtf and why?

It's an endless mission. Folks can scale up that deep if they want to. I'm ok with the unit having more health than traditional units, by all means. There's a tipping point however, that makes it so players of Many in game options Can Not interface without subjugating their personal style for cheese.

Is it cheese though to employ a harder hitting weapon like a sniper or an Opticor?

[kapn655321]

7 minutes ago, Volkeris said:

Is it cheese though to employ a harder hitting weapon like a sniper or an Opticor?

Those weapons arbitrarily sit in a bracket of higher dps. ..they also sacrifice a significant amount of comfort in order to do it.

To answer your question, no.

Is it ok that none of these rifles work, because Rubico Prime is a thing? Do we just accept that this one gun was made for the whole game, and nothing else should be? That's kind of the point here.. What are the point of these rifles existing in Warframe, if they're not made to work in Warframe?

Edited April 17, 2020 by kapn655321

[OmegaVoid]

Are you talking Sortie/Kuva Flood levels? I'm not seeing the Star Chart level Demo units as mad hard to kill.

On 2020-04-17 at 5:23 AM, kapn655321 said:

I can not beat Disruption, whatsoever, with any of my preferred loadouts.

Define "beat", 'cos it's an endless mode. You hit Rotation C at Round 3, so I guess if you're killing Demos in Round 4 that should be enough?

On 2020-04-17 at 5:35 AM, kapn655321 said:

Which of these primaries would you use?:

8 forma Dera Vandal with a Riven.
7 forma Flux Rifle with a Riven.
6 forma Hema with a Riven.
6 forma Miter with a Riven.
5 forma Panthera with a Riven.
8 forma Prisma Gorgon with a Riven.

I liek my Prisma Gorgon.

Prisma Gorgon vs lvl.45 Demolisher Bailiff

Kill time seems okay, despite my.... relaxed approach to aiming in that clip. 🤪

Is it cheating that I used Arcane Acceleration? I know that's something not everybody has. I don't have a Riven, though, so maybe that evens out?

Dera Vandal does okay too. No Arcanes in this clip 'cos none of 'em trigger off Status, only crit... which DV just doesn't do much.

Dera Vandal vs lvl.41 Demolyst Satyr

Showing the Satyr 'cos it has Robotic health; being a Viral build, it perfoms slightly better on the Flesh Health of Heqet/Machinist, of course.

The Primed mods aren't everyday items, but still -- no Riven.

I wasn't too confident of how my Miter would do, but it wasn't as bad as I'd feared, despite... well...

Harsh, but fair. 😣

Miter vs lvl.35 Demolisher Anti Moa

It might have done better with Fast Hands swapped out. 🤔 I mean, the mag size is large enough, even when I miss more shots than I land. 😆

And yes, I had a bit of help from my little floating buddy, but Sentinel weapons aren't monster DPS.

Sortie/Kuva Flood might be a different matter -- I don't recall doing a Disruption at those levels at all and there isn't one up at the moment (selectable mission levels when? 🥺 ), but if you just want to grab your Hydroid and hop into a Star Chart Disruption for fun, these weapons are good 'til Round 4 at least.

Provided I can find the damn Demo before it's within 6ft of the Conduit that is! 😠

[kapn655321]

4 minutes ago, OmegaVoid said:

🥺these weapons are good 'til Round 4 at least.
 

Some Excellent work putting this together! Very impressive, and glad to see your results. I've indeed had different results. When I say can't beat em', I mean straight up losing on Rotation A. I've tried Dera, Exergis, Stradavar P, etc.. and have had no luck whatsoever.