Hard Mode and Ultra Hard Mode Thoughts and Feedback

[Aurora3500]

I recently heard from the recent dev stream about adding a Hard Mode and Ultra Hard Mode into the game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like in the form it was announced in, beating a regular node in the star chart will unlock the hard mode version to do as an alternate mission if you select that node, then beating the Hard version of that node will unlock the Ultra Hard version.

Hard Mode will take the normal level of the enemy +50 while Ultra Hard is +100 if I understand.

First off, it is a very intriguing and exciting idea. It has the potential to reinvigorate the game overall and give motive to play the Starchart all over again.

My main concern is that it is done right, and avoids becoming a standalone thing similar to Arbitrations, Nightmare Missions, and Kuva Missions. For that I suggest a few ideas on how to implement it.

Instead of being a standalone mission, Hard Mode should be a toggle option on the Starchart menu, turning it from Normal to Hard Mode will cause all Nodes on the Map to become Hard Mode. A player would have to clear all nodes on the starchart to unlock Hard Mode. Then Clear all Hard Mode nodes to unlock Ultra Hard Mode on this toggle option.

What this does is it allows all other special mission types to receive the modifier from Hard Mode. This means Void Fissures, Kuva Siphons, Syndicate missions, Sorties, Invasions, Lich missions all receive the +50 modifier that hard mode gives. I feel this would better connect the game as a whole rather than make Hard Mode another standalone thing similar to Arbitrations/Nightmare missions. Players would have the option of doing Hard Mode fissures, Invasions, and other special mission types. If they want to return it to Normal Mode, they simply have to set the setting on the toggle back to normal mode at any time.

These days, I frequently find myself divided between Void Fissures and Kuva Lich missions. As a MR28 player, they are the main missions I do and give the most incentive for rewards outside of nightwave, and yet I dislike that they have to be done separately. It would feel nice for Hard Mode to also be an option for these mission types especially so I don't have to play Hard Mode separately from Fissures/Liches and other mission types.

The big question many players will have naturally are rewards. While it wouldn't be required for Veteran and Advanced players to get full enjoyment out of the new difficulty setting, I think having a small boost in rewards would be natural for the game mode. I don't think it needs to be anything fancy like Kuva or Riven Slivers on planets like Earth and Mercury. Perhaps just a x1.2 to x1.5 boost to normal mission reward amounts in addition to removing common mods from the mission reward table. Ultra Hard Mode could have the booster a little higher. Perhaps any Relic earned on a Hard Mode node could be exceptional from the start and one received from an Ultra Hard Mode Relic could be Flawless or Radiant.

Those are my thoughts. I am interested in seeing this become an option in the game.

[SpringRocker]

On 2020-05-12 at 9:10 PM, Aurora3500 said:

My main concern is that it is done right, and avoids becoming a standalone thing similar to Arbitrations

Arbitration was the last "hard mode", a challenge mode with no rewards for people that want to play something that's a bit more difficult.

Then people complained until it was dumbed down to what it is now, just another game mode like everything else. "Hard mode" at best will be being able to skip the first hour in a mission. The armor and shield overhaul made enemies even more of pushovers and less threatening. Everything still dies at the press of a button while sitting there.

I hate to be so cynical, but it's more apt to call it a "time skip" rather than a "hard mode".

Edited May 14, 2020 by SpringRocker

[Lightel03]

On 2020-05-13 at 1:10 AM, Aurora3500 said:

Instead of being a standalone mission, Hard Mode should be a toggle option on the Starchart menu, turning it from Normal to Hard Mode will cause all Nodes on the Map to become Hard Mode. A player would have to clear all nodes on the starchart to unlock Hard Mode. Then Clear all Hard Mode nodes to unlock Ultra Hard Mode on this toggle option.

Definitely, would be much more convenient than having to click on the mission and choose the difficulty.

On 2020-05-13 at 1:10 AM, Aurora3500 said:

What this does is it allows all other special mission types to receive the modifier from Hard Mode. This means Void Fissures, Kuva Siphons, Syndicate missions, Sorties, Invasions, Lich missions all receive the +50 modifier that hard mode gives. I feel this would better connect the game as a whole rather than make Hard Mode another standalone thing similar to Arbitrations/Nightmare missions. Players would have the option of doing Hard Mode fissures, Invasions, and other special mission types. If they want to return it to Normal Mode, they simply have to set the setting on the toggle back to normal mode at any time.

These days, I frequently find myself divided between Void Fissures and Kuva Lich missions. As a MR28 player, they are the main missions I do and give the most incentive for rewards outside of nightwave, and yet I dislike that they have to be done separately. It would feel nice for Hard Mode to also be an option for these mission types especially so I don't have to play Hard Mode separately from Fissures/Liches and other mission types.

The big question many players will have naturally are rewards. While it wouldn't be required for Veteran and Advanced players to get full enjoyment out of the new difficulty setting, I think having a small boost in rewards would be natural for the game mode. I don't think it needs to be anything fancy like Kuva or Riven Slivers on planets like Earth and Mercury. Perhaps just a x1.2 to x1.5 boost to normal mission reward amounts in addition to removing common mods from the mission reward table. Ultra Hard Mode could have the booster a little higher. Perhaps any Relic earned on a Hard Mode node could be exceptional from the start and one received from an Ultra Hard Mode Relic could be Flawless or Radiant.

Those are my thoughts. I am interested in seeing this become an option in the game.

This is a very nice idea, allowing players to cut the grind by going through a couple difficult missions rather than many regular ones.

I just think it`s unnecessary to do this for void fissures. From kuva siphons we get extra kuva, from nodes we get extra resources, from syndicate missions we get extra standing, but the only payout from going to hard mode on a void fissure is that every relic is at least exceptional-radiant, which isn`t really worth the difficulty increase nor the further separation of the playerbase.

[Aurora3500]

On 2020-05-14 at 2:08 AM, SpringRocker said:

Arbitration was the last "hard mode", a challenge mode with no rewards for people that want to play something that's a bit more difficult.

Then people complained until it was dumbed down to what it is now, just another game mode like everything else. "Hard mode" at best will be being able to skip the first hour in a mission. The armor and shield overhaul made enemies even more of pushovers and less threatening. Everything still dies at the press of a button while sitting there.

I hate to be so cynical, but it's more apt to call it a "time skip" rather than a "hard mode".

That is true. It was supposed to be the "hard mode" originally. I enjoyed how it was a 1 life challenge when it 1st came out. The Arbitration Drones are the only other thing to really spice up the mode. It became less interesting when the ability to revive other players came into play. If Hard Mode happens, I would hope it doesn't become like Arbitrations or Nightmare Missions

Naturally it would also be nice if Hard Mode did more than just increase enemy levels, if it effected missions somehow. Spy missions as an example could require all 3 vaults to be hacked to win the mission similar to sorties. With how DE is effected by the outbreak and not having access to the more advanced tools of their studio, I'm not sure how much they are able to make advanced tweaks to missions with this new mode. At the very least, it is still better to get missions with higher leveled enemies rather than nothing.

If the recent devstream from home is any indication, it actually looks like it increased levels by +60 instead of 50 and it looks like the missions might have a MR requirement based on the symbol. Which could mean Ultra HardMode will increase levels by +120. It sounds like they're still thinking about it. Not sure if that means they'll have more conditions than just the levels.

On 2020-05-14 at 7:07 AM, Lightel03 said:

Definitely, would be much more convenient than having to click on the mission and choose the difficulty.

This is a very nice idea, allowing players to cut the grind by going through a couple difficult missions rather than many regular ones.

I just think it`s unnecessary to do this for void fissures. From kuva siphons we get extra kuva, from nodes we get extra resources, from syndicate missions we get extra standing, but the only payout from going to hard mode on a void fissure is that every relic is at least exceptional-radiant, which isn`t really worth the difficulty increase nor the further separation of the playerbase.

I can see not needing hard mode as much from Kuva floods/Lich misisons considering that those missions by default give lvl 50-100+ enemies anyway It still feels like an inconvenience if Hard Mode/Ultra Hard Mode can't be done together with Void Fissures though. It is possible it could divide the player base further which wouldn't be good. It will be nice if there is incentive to continue doing the missions beyond just completing them once. If there isn't a way to connect them to the other types of missions like invasions/fissures, it feels like it might just be a "one and done" type of thing.

[UUDDLRLRBA_START]

Instead of new rewards, maybe Hard mode / Ultra Hard mode should be resource multipliers - you play a standard mission and collect the crap you collect.

Next, you have the option of putting those earned rewards in a betting pool for Hard / UH mode. If you clear the Hard / UH mode, you multiply the items you bet, but if you fail, you lose those items (or get perma-docked, unlike when a lich steals your crap).

It would make this mode a game-wide version of the Index, but interesting (and exploitable).

[Rhino-netlost]

There are already Infested mission nodes that grant meager resource multipliers like x1.3 or whatever. Nobody plays them. (Partially because Infested have insanely low drop rates and low affinity gain in the first place.)

So, it's not technically about more loot: It's about better loot. Removing common drops is definitely the way to go with Hard Mode. We don't want 40 Endo and 5000 Credit cache drops when we're hoping and praying for the right Lith relic containing the last part we need. We don't need any more Redirection and Steel Fiber mods.

Actually, it would greatly benefit new players if they removed the dud drops from mission rewards, too. But I doubt DE will actually go back and rework stuff from the past while they're busy creating new content. And they're always busy with new content.

[BlackCat500]

You could make it a x50000 resource drops booster and I still wouldn't feel it. Resource boosters just don't add anything in the endgame aside from void traces (if it even affected them at all). I am still convinced this is absolutely not the way to go. Hard mode and ultra hard mode are most likely going to be a gimmick, which is fine temporarily I guess.