Jump to content

Heart of Deimos: The Helminth System Feedback Megathread


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Frendh said:

The game has definitly been getting easier and easier. 99.99% of the farmable things have remained unchanged or are easier to get now than they were in the past.

When they introduced the Octavia the grind started to get bigger or it requires luck (rng). Some of them requires resources from this one place so you need to do all of that stuffs (open worlds frames). Some grind might be "okeish". For example Gara's grind was not only grinding one thing over and over. As fair remember only the Wisp was in old style.
Check what it was before the Octavia (for most frames):
- most frame you have to be the boss few times
- some bosses requires you additional resources to challenge a boss (Kella or Ambulas)

I refarmed most of frames and I have just needed argon or something rarer from time to time. However it wasn't hard to get.
There were few exception like Nidus, Ivara or Ash (I haven't refarmed it yet so I don't remember).

So yeah. It's getting grindy, at least for frames.

 

1 hour ago, Frendh said:

Helminth system is not grindy in the sense of cost vs reward. You do not have to get the helminth. Game is really easy without the helminth. If you get the helminth, less than 5 of the abilities are needed. Which is less than 10 hours of farming, disregarding build times for warframes. Probably less than 5 hours if you are a veteran. 

First, you probably could be game with less than 10% of the game but it doesn't mean that you don't want to use another 90%.
However at least half of frames are easy to refarm and another 1/4 are farmable but require some effort (not huge for Helminth user). I got 10 or so frames to farm (most of them I've just bought) which require huge RNG (e.g Harrow) or some rank (e.g. Garuda). Given time to finish the quest and resources needed to subsume frames, Helminth system is indeed not "very grindy".
Secondly, in order to have 5 subsumed abilities you need 4th rank. Still, not huge investment, but someone might need farm few resources.

2 hours ago, Frendh said:

It would be extremely boring if all things in the game were equally easy to farm and attain.

Sure, some stuffs could be harder to beat. It could be bad for some players that are weaker, however that's player's thing.

On the other thing RNG is bad... you can raise your skill to "the infinity and beyond" but still get nothing.
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

There should be an option to replace different abilities on separate configurations.

For example, I'd like to put Roar on Volt in Config A and Config C by replacing Electric Shield and Discharge respectively.

This would increase possible build variety because I don't use Shield during normal missions or Discharge during Eidolon hunts.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-10-26 at 7:07 AM, Frendh said:

The game has definitly been getting easier and easier. 99.99% of the farmable things have remained unchanged or are easier to get now than they were in the past. The only thing that I can recall that has become harder to farm is Protea with the increase from 75 kills to 150 for a full squad. If you mean the game is getting more grindy because they add more things to farm, then yes you are correct.

Adding new items on both sides of the spectrum is not making the game more grindy. The sides being "really easy to get" and the other "really grindy to get". And they have been covering most part of the spectrum. I would claim, disregarding events, right now the most grindy things to get are the platinum arcanes that drop from the hydrolyst.

Helminth system is not grindy in the sense of cost vs reward. You do not have to get the helminth. Game is really easy without the helminth. If you get the helminth, less than 5 of the abilities are needed. Which is less than 10 hours of farming, disregarding build times for warframes. Probably less than 5 hours if you are a veteran. 

I am convinced  I would go from 0 resources to completing the Helminth and unlocking all abilities faster than farming a rank 5 platinum hydrolyst arcane from drops.

Players have for many many years been asking for a decent resource sink for their surplus resources. Helminth system is way more than decent. I thought the helminth costs were fine from the beginning. 

It would be extremely boring if all things in the game were equally easy to farm and attain.

I was more meaning really grindy to get yeah. If you want examples, the older frames required you to kill a fairly simple boss, even who back then was challenging but not a grind. Then bosses got updated to require longer fights for things to get. Then they required token grind to fight the boss. then they stopped needing bosses and instead needed to be rng drops from things like manics. Then from rng for endless wave c's. Then singular game modes for all 4 pieces with low % drop chances. Over time the game has gotten more and more grindy to get things. People haven't been asking for things to get harder to get. People have been asking for more places to use the things they have already gotten.  Simply using your overpowered things for grind you could easily have completed with less than half that power doesn't quite make things fun if you have to do it over and over

The big resource sink for helminth though, me for example enjoy playing spy missions, captures and the like. Rarely places to get big drops of resources and yet as a "play it your way" game it feels like the only way to have really gotten the resource stacks expected to have accumulated to a point where helminth isnt an issue would have required me to play not my way, but whatever other way people who have gotten all the things played. Much the same way that its almost required for a loot frame in some missions purely to get enough resource to continue the mission does not make for a play it your way either.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2020-10-28 at 9:08 AM, LuckyCharm said:

I was more meaning really grindy to get yeah. 

Most of the content is as easy as it was when it was introduced. Jackal has been updated and is more difficult. Ash was moved from some boss to manics. Excalibur replaced on pluto and moved somewhere else. Vauban was moved from alerts to nightwave shop. Vor got a make over. There are a few more things I cannot recall.

When one adds new content to old content, one generally steps up the game. You either make it harder, slower or different. Because progress. You have already cleared all the easy content and you are geared up. Then you move on to more challenging and/or grindy content. Grindy because it is a farming game. Then DE _thankfully_ adds different content for you to use all your accumulated items on/for. Adding 50 more Sergeants to cover all the new warframes is bad game developement. I do not want to see that.

On 2020-10-28 at 9:08 AM, LuckyCharm said:

The big resource sink for helminth though, me for example enjoy playing spy missions, captures and the like. Rarely places to get big drops of resources and yet as a "play it your way" game it feels like the only way to have really gotten the resource stacks expected to have accumulated to a point where helminth isnt an issue would have required me to play not my way, but whatever other way people who have gotten all the things played. Much the same way that its almost required for a loot frame in some missions purely to get enough resource to continue the mission does not make for a play it your way either.

One of the main foundations of Warframe is "Kill stuff, get stuff.". It is not okay for people to get the same amounts of resources for doing a 60 second capture as me when I am killing things for 5 minutes during a survival. If you want stuff, then put in the time. You can do a 5 minute capture where 4 minutes consists of killing stuff. Which then will give you comparable amounts of resources.

Anyone who wants to "catch 'em all" better get used to farming resources.  Vast majority of crafting needs resources.  One "subsuming item" costs maybe ~10 times more than the average item.  And subsuming all warframes does not, from my perspective, cost much resources.  According to me there are two camps. Either you are in the "catch 'em all" camp, then you better be used to farming resources or it is time to find a new game. If you are in the "I want to power up" camp, then getting 3 subsumed warframes is plenty. 5 and I think I cover all areas I can imagine. For me I am going to guess less than 20 hours of resource farming if you start at 0 resources. Which is painful for a non-farmer player. But doable.

I am repeating myself but everything should not be as easy, nor as fast and not even as fun to get as everything else. There should be a spectrum.  I consider the Helminth to be an extra exclusive "item" and should have a cost to reflect that. It is not only very different from all other things you can farm but also a straight up buff. No side grading unless you intentionally prefer that over upgrading.

I am still of the opinion that farming platinum arcanes on the plains of eidolons is much more time consuming _and_ it has a player skill requirement. Speculation.

Edited by Frendh
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Idk if this thread is even being kept up with atm, but I had some suggestions to give about some of the subsumed abilities. It seems like something that was never taken into account when picking these were their versatility (how many frames can use an ability effectively, and how much of an impact it can make in battle) and accessibility (how hard it is to get the warframe and subsume it) some examples of these not being taken into account.

1. rhino's roar- by far the most versatile you can easily attach this to anything with a power/duration build which most frames already use. Very accessible too you can easily get this frame in under an hour making it ideal for subsuming. Also want to mention this is rhinos best ability and scales further than any other he has.

2. mesa's shooting gallery- Why, why is this a subsumed ability. It has NO versatility anything that can use this ability would be better off with roar. The jamming does nothing and it only buffs one person while roar can do an entire team. This also is significantly harder to get than roar it would take days unless you buy alad v cords. So again why is this even a thing its out scaled by something way easier to get. Also this is mesas worst ability

3. Saryn's molt- Ok sayrn is hard because all of her abilities are based on spores and spores is too good to be a subsumed ability without heavy nerfs. But this ability has no use at all. resonator can distract enemies better, on both the damage wouldnt scale enough to matter, and the speed buff molt gives isnt really that big of a deal. Also this is saryns worst ability. 

4. vauban tesla nervos- again no versality damage drops off quickly, and it can do CC but when you got other subsumed abilities that can CC groups of enemies together rather than giving shock status or knocking them down. Again this is one of vaubans worst abilities if not these worst. 

 

Conclusion: 

Why would the majority of players use anything but roar. Rhino takes barely any grinding to get, you get his best ability that scales really well. While with frames that take significantly more grinding to get we get their worst abilities that dont scale at all??? Seriously what are you guys doing over there not trying to be rude but how do you guys not see an issue with giving us an ability that scales super well thats also easily accessed, and giving use abilities with almost non-existent use that can take lots of grinding to get?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...