Heart of Deimos: The Helminth System Feedback Megathread

[quxier]

2 hours ago, thurmack said:

2. Perhaps as an adjunct, could we please have ranks of subsumes? I'd like to keep feeding Nekroses to Helminth to unlock infusion upgrades for that ability. Offhand the upgrades could reduce infusion costs, or maybe even unlock the aforementioned infusion memory.

That would be nice... but on default.

[Proscriptor]

20 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

So, day 1 it was apparent to the community that Bile costs were absolutely insane. 

it can't be "apparent" when it's a matter of ongoing disagreement in the community.

[master_of_destiny]

2 hours ago, Traubenzuckr said:

it can't be "apparent" when it's a matter of ongoing disagreement in the community.

 

Please cite.

 

When I state that the cost was insane, I'm citing that DE has already committed to reviewing it.

I'm citing that it uses a resource that drops in single digit quantities, but needs 1000 of them (fresnels).

I'm also citing that despite having 2-3 good options (argon, thermal sludge, and morphics), the other options are completely nutty by either being a time gated event or in quantities which even after getting to the maximum of their respective content I don't have a supply of.

I'm also citing that day one Bile is a resource which is required for virtually all of the powers.

I'm finalizing that observation with a bile sac not producing Bile, and those subsume costs being high enough that an ability using it basically requires my next subsume not use it at all.  This makes the costs excessive, and effectively prevents any iterative testing.  

 

You're welcome to disagree, and plow huge amounts of resources in.  I'm a veteran of this game, and the score is obvious.  Release for a month, wait until the impatient people have burned through resources, then re-cost so the even more casual players will be good.  Veteran players are silenced because it's possible to iterate.  That's where my money is....and being honest the only debate I've seen is people who hate newbies having access.  That was a function of the MR requirement.   If you're lowering the entry point to that, then having Bile costed as such is silly.

[Althaline]

49 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

I'm also citing that despite having 2-3 good options (argon, thermal sludge, and morphics), the other options are completely nutty by either being a time gated event or in quantities which even after getting to the maximum of their respective content I don't have a supply of.

The 9 resources in Bile can be acquired in 5 places, a total overlap of 4 resources. Railjack missions will give you 3 of the resources you need, but in such low quantities that you may as well not bother (Isos are usable, but Copernics are very inefficient and Fresnels are impossible). Orb Vallis gives you 2 of the resources, but only sometimes (and that "sometimes" hasn't happened yet since the Heart of Deimos update). If you want to be efficient you can farm Morphics and Cryotic at the same time on Pluto, but even then Morphics is the highest-cost rare resource in any category, and Cryotic requires dumb amounts per feed. Argon Crystals are great, if you've got them (you may as well just feed these to Helminth the moment they show up). Somatic Fibers drop from a single node in sets of 1.

In summary, it is impossible to farm effectively for Bile resources as they are almost exclusively the unique drops from certain missions or nodes (and are not costed as such). This is a stark contrast to the other resource categories, and is exacerbated by the constant requirement for large quantities of Bile in every Helminth action.

[(XBOX)EPOSSTYLE]

Dear DE, can u think to balance everything across the board in the future to avoid wasting time with Arbitrary decisions and keep fun in mind!? 

[master_of_destiny]

1 hour ago, Iamabearlulz said:

The 9 resources in Bile can be acquired in 5 places, a total overlap of 4 resources. Railjack missions will give you 3 of the resources you need, but in such low quantities that you may as well not bother (Isos are usable, but Copernics are very inefficient and Fresnels are impossible). Orb Vallis gives you 2 of the resources, but only sometimes (and that "sometimes" hasn't happened yet since the Heart of Deimos update). If you want to be efficient you can farm Morphics and Cryotic at the same time on Pluto, but even then Morphics is the highest-cost rare resource in any category, and Cryotic requires dumb amounts per feed. Argon Crystals are great, if you've got them (you may as well just feed these to Helminth the moment they show up). Somatic Fibers drop from a single node in sets of 1.

In summary, it is impossible to farm effectively for Bile resources as they are almost exclusively the unique drops from certain missions or nodes (and are not costed as such). This is a stark contrast to the other resource categories, and is exacerbated by the constant requirement for large quantities of Bile in every Helminth action.

 

Let me break this down from my perspective.  

Argon Crystal - 3 - Dropped from any void mission, in 1-2 units.  Easy to harvest.

Copernics - 15,000 - Dropped as end of mission rewards in 1,200 quantities.  Railjack, but can be from eximus units in negligible quantities.  Hard to supply at the required volume, and requiring many railjack missions to get enough for a single infusion.

Cryotic - 3,000 - 30 harvests required from a miner that reached 100%.  At about 1:40 each, and with time in-between, this is a minimum of 2 runs totaling over an hour of time for a single infusion.  Not terrible, but at the same time the things cryotic is used in are extremely expensive, or require large quantities (refining open world minerals to usable items).  Not ideal.

Diluted Thermia - 5 -  Time limited event.  Not ideal because it's effectively 5 Exploiter Orb fights that cannot be run.    

Fresnels - 1,000 - 1-2 units per drop.  Maybe 50-60 units in a lucky run.  That's 20+ railjack missions in the veil, and the biggest issue is that this is functionally a game mode where the random groups no longer exist.  Not really an option.

Isos - 400 - Not terrible.  Generally received in 15-30 unit bundles in railjack missions, these are rare, but can be farmed.  The issue again is no pick-up games with random players, so farming is largely dead.

Morphics - 40 - 1-2 units per nodule, and only a few on a mission at best.  The catch is that these things have been around forever.  After years of playing the game it's almost a trash resource.  It's a good thing to sacrifice because not a lot uses them.  If you want to farm them get a Nekros, and run any longer term survival mission on a relevant planet.  This avoids the need for nodule farming, and will rapidly fill your coffers with other resources.

Somatic Fibers - 10 -  One mission on Lua.  Drops rarely from Demolysts.  The issue I have with this is that the mission in question is a farm for Axi relics.  Why is this an issue?  Well, groups run this as a 4-3-2-1-1-1-etc... mission.  As in the number of conduits goes down each time to make sure you get an Axi relic.  This means about 5 demolysts a round, and poor drop chances.  Between that and the drop rates, this is a farm that is not really acceptable.

Thermal Sludge - 50 - Trash resource.  Walk around on Fortuna and you'll find containers littered everywhere.  Easy to obtain resource from an easy to farm circuit.

 

This is why I listed three good sources.  I personally believe the weight towards railjack resources, huge defined time grinds (Cryotic), and the time limited events (thermia) point towards DE wanting people to have to engage with systems which they don't.  The problem of course is the insane pricing, as though they looked at the inventory of the top 1% of players and just divided by 50 or so to get the costing.

What do I mean?  Well, let's look at somatic fibers.  People who spend all day grinding Axi relics for prime parts to sell will accumulate fiber easily, and they're likely to have the focus grind done.  As such, they'll be sitting on useless fibers.  Thermia was a useful and necessary grind for the Exploiter orb, which only required one use per boss fight.  Do it as a group of 4, and you could easily grind out a lot of the resource over an event then grind the boss at your leisure until the ephemera dropped.  Railjack could literally be done without ever building a ship.  During the opening week a few people taxied, and randoms jumped on-board to grind out at least to rank 8 on the intrinsics to improve archwings.  In the course of this, resources were accumulated but never spent on anything.  

DE being transparent in motivations told us this was a resource sink.  Their transparency in actions tells us they desperately want some of these game modes to get a second chance....and the nightwave isn't doing it.  Especially not when it's already capped for some people, as in there are no more rewards or level.  

This is why I said that things were known to be an issue from day one for players.  It's why I think DE has stated they'll eventually look at balance.  Right now though, it seems more likely that they're going to let it sit.  Burn out the grinders, alter it later for the casuals, and out date the outrage by simply stating it's one thing amongst many.

 

The counter to this argument is them going on stream and saying things that get players angry.  The focus on a compression algorithm, while dismissing feedback from players that certain abilities suck, is amazing.  It's like they've decided the outcome is that players are idiots, so they'll break all the toys we like the most.  That way we won't play with them in a way they don't want us to.  I am constantly in awe of this mentality, and befuddled by people who defend it.  Despite that, it's always players in the wrong.  That is until we leave, or start social media events, or literally get more attention to criticism videos than their official media. 

Speaking of media, my particular favorite bit is reusing the non-implemented tennocon railjack features to sell the game recently.  Tennocon 2018 and 2019 mind you, not 2020.  At this point, this is DE.  Peter Molyneux level promises, Molyneux level delivery, Bethesda level bugginess, and EA level response to criticism with knee-jerk nerfs and some of the hottest hot-takes when it comes to outside criticism.  It's a shame that this game cannot have anything nice....but it's Stockholm Syndrome.  Maybe the next thing implemented will matter, or maybe it'll be the final straw.  Lord knows, the recent acquisition of parent companies might make this a pointless debate.

[Beer-The-Reaper]

I think most agree that Bile is currently currently the limiting factor.  Barring magical perfect balancing there will be a limiting factor.  While I would like to see resources added to the Bile pool, and agree that current costs are high, it does not seem to be stopping most experienced players from getting a lot of use out of the system.  If they made tweaks to the resource costs on a regular basis they would not be able to gather statistically significant data.  This is a new system and while the only change we have seen so far is the Marked for Death "nerf" I am sure that changes will come with time.  Feedback is good but my advice is "Don't Panic."

[quxier]

4 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

Argon Crystal - 3 - Dropped from any void mission, in 1-2 units.  Easy to harvest.

Unless RNG hates you and you need 2-3 runs.

4 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

At about 1:40 each

Unless enemies don't spawn.

[master_of_destiny]

5 hours ago, quxier said:

Unless RNG hates you and you need 2-3 runs.

Unless enemies don't spawn.

So here's the counter argument.

I've never had a higher level mission not spawn at least 2 argon crystal formations.  That's level 25+ enemies.  If you're farming levels lower than that have fun.  Besides, with a completion goal of "complete a capture in 90 seconds or less" these missions are literally 10 minutes at most to bomb two entire levels with a Limbo.  If you don't have 3 crystals by then you're doing something wrong.

1:40 is the 100 timer.  I stated that you also have time in-between.  If you're a loner the spawns can be terrible.  That's why you do the infested excavation on Pluto.  There are a lot of random groups, they generally go to round 20.  At that point you've got 5 C, 5 B, and 10 A rewards.  It's also listed as more than an hour to run, hence not being a viable farming method.  I cannot even begin to understand why people want so many qualifiers.

 

Let's add all the qualifiers.  20k nanospores is a joke when you can easily get 5k in a mission.  That is, unless you're farming on the wrong planet.

ETC......

 

 

My point here is that I'm not asking for no grind.  I'm asking for the grind to be reasonable.  That is to say, 3-4 missions, taking 30 minutes or so isn't unreasonable to ask for.  This is why nobody freaked out about nanospores, ferrite, or other resources like that.  At the same time, a railjack mission can run 20-30 minutes if you're farming up titanium and the drops.  This ideal farm is being asked to be repeated multiple times over, requiring hours for a single potential drop.  Likewise with other items.  That's not cool.

I want to be crystal clear, farming and grinding is not inherently bad.  If it was Warframe would not exist.  What is bad is forced participation in hours of grind for no appreciable power, a system which allows us to pay to skip the grind, and a system which may at any point be made void by nerfs which make anything above the power curve absolutely meaningless in their wake.  

 

While I don't care about marked for death, I do care about the example set.  The powers people were interested in were nerfed without any attempt at balance prior to launch.  Once data came in there was a nerf on the one power people found interesting, instead of a mechanical fix to certain issues it was a fix and nerf.  Likewise the development team didn't take the feedback for use, only joked about how none of the replacement powers could be good because if everything was good there'd be no reason to use the Helminth.  Bad look.  The point of the Helminth was to tailor frames to a player, but now it seems to be a resource sink without any plans to provide players power.  That....let me call it as DE never seeming to want to learn.  They don't want to buff powers, but they also cannot provide powers to replace that are good.  It's a paradox...and the response from DE is just to wait.  

Note above, I say good.  Not great.  It's intentional.  A good power is one with benefits and trade-offs.  A great one is something always useful.  Roar is great in a meta that favors damage above all else.  Ensnare, Larva, and Air Burst are all crowd grouping abilities.  The first has range issues, the second is clearly superior, and the third (post "improvement") is garbage because it sucks enemies in a direction rather than to a point.  Larva got a nerf to range because Ensnare and Larva are the same.  Why in the heck not choose competing powers with different trades?  Larva and Resonator both CC.   This offers one ability to group enemies, and one to simply stop them from attacking while creating a parade of idiots following the shinies.  That's an example of competing CC that made sense....but DE decided instead to nerf.  That speaks volumes about this system being dead on arrival, because it can never offer real power.

[quxier]

24 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

I've never had a higher level mission not spawn at least 2 argon crystal formations.  That's level 25+ enemies.  If you're farming levels lower than that have fun.  Besides, with a completion goal of "complete a capture in 90 seconds or less" these missions are literally 10 minutes at most to bomb two entire levels with a Limbo.  If you don't have 3 crystals by then you're doing something wrong.

Maybe. I run Oxomoco (30-35 level) with Nekros & Smeeta kavat. I try to go to every room and destroy everything.
The same with Hexenon. The last time I have done 35-40 minutes run with the above setup gave me 60ish. ~20 minutes of causally playing (no Nekros etc) = 50. I remember getting 100+ when they introduced this tileset.
It's very RNG. While I'm fine with Argon I'm not fine spending hours to get Hexenon or Cryotic... just for one feed.... and not even up to 100%.

39 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

If you're a loner the spawns can be terrible. 

And that's a bug. I heard people complaining even when they were in a team. Soloing is even worse. Whole spawn is weird. Sometimes you get few enemies, sometimes hundreds.

53 minutes ago, master_of_destiny said:

I want to be crystal clear, farming and grinding is not inherently bad.  If it was Warframe would not exist.  What is bad is forced participation in hours of grind for no appreciable power, a system which allows us to pay to skip the grind, and a system which may at any point be made void by nerfs which make anything above the power curve absolutely meaningless in their wake.  

And for me Calx & Bile is grindy. I don't do open world too much (after I get Helminth) and I hate RJ. So for me it's only Hexennon & Rubedo. While I have tons of Rubedo, Hexennon is hard to grind.

[Proscriptor]

17 hours ago, master_of_destiny said:

When I state that the cost was insane, I'm citing that DE has already committed to reviewing it. ...

the fact that DE has committed to reviewing something doesn't automatically mean it's "insane" 

it might as well be good and they could be reviewing it in order to refine it and make it better

[master_of_destiny]

3 hours ago, Traubenzuckr said:

the fact that DE has committed to reviewing something doesn't automatically mean it's "insane" 

it might as well be good and they could be reviewing it in order to refine it and make it better

?

Cue Princess Bride music, and a quotation about not meaning what you think it means.

 

Now jokes aside, why exactly would you review the Bile costs?  This is specifically what was said, so I'm going to take them at their word.

Put in the most simplistic terms costs are too high or too low.  We can remove too low, because player feedback is not going to cite that.

 

So we know that the Bile costing is too high.  We know there's two variable inputs, a fixed output, and an economy using the fixed output.  Those variables are the quantity of materials, and the the choice of materials.  The fixed output is the amount of the intermediary resource, Bile.  The economy is goofy...as it's got a ranking system to unlock powers but realistically the costs for applying powers also ranks you up.  This is a....unique design decision from DE that I still don't understand, given multiple ranks simply allow you to subsume more frames...but by the time you actually get to their limits you're already past the next tier of subsuming.  That is to say by the time I got 3 subsumed frames I had already unlocked the ability to subsume more so the "reward" for ranking was pointless.

You can alter the output....but DE would then have to change up a lot of things.  That's not going to happen.  This means we either alter the economy or alter the inputs.  Both are a sign of bad systems design.  If you alter the economy you change progression, which means you never did the basic planning.  If you alter the inputs you admit that your entire system was simply designed to be a resource sink and never had the goal of making the game better.  It's utter insanity, hence my point that resource costing is insane.

 

 

You're welcome to disagree.  Let me put this into perspective from where I sit.  Veteran player.  Veteran by definition of time played, not some magical definition of skill or the like.  I've got about 14k morphics, 1,400k salvage, 1,400k ferrite, 2,200k nanospores, etc....  My point here is that any resource introduced in the last 2 years is actually what I'm citing as the largest problems.  That covers disruptions, railjack, thermia, and some other things.  When I look at Bile there's an abundance of these things.  It's either insanely poor design that all of this stuff was grouped together, insane pricing brought about by focusing on the player base with unreasonable amounts of resources to create the economy, or a complete flop of costing designs for applying powers.  Pick your poison.

What I'm seeing, and what has been shared with us, is that Deimos was a mess.  Many things completed at the 11th hour, many things put in as place holders, and many things which needed another 2-3 iterative passes before they were ready.  You're welcome to argue...but then you'd have to explain the developer streams stating the above.  You'd also have to explain how the helminth (the point of this thread) could be released with so many buggy powers, have so few new powers added into the game, and rely on almost half of the ranks for an artificial lock on subsuming as their "reward" without even actually meaning anything.  Being clear, day one I fed the helminth until it reached rank 1.  I subsumed a frame.  I then applied a couple of powers, tested, was underwhelmed, and haven't really applied any since.  Despite this, I have a wall of flowers, about a dozen more frames to go, and the only permanent changes I've made are to Zephyr (Air Burst is so bad that anything short of Decoy is better).  

All of the above implies this was tacked on, because the Deimos content was not done.  It isn't anywhere near done now.  The stuff is all stretched to force grind, and the regular practice of DE waiting until the devoted players are done before fixing the economy is in full effect.  Let me make my bets now.  14 days from today will be a Tuesday, October 6th.  We will likely get some token pricing balance that week.  Why do I suggest this?  At that point there will be no more to subsume.  The community will be bouyed simply by iterative testing with powers....and that's not going to last.  When the only remaining content is simply to have new meta builds DE will decrease pricing to sane grind levels.  At which point we'll already be done burying this DOA mess.  It'll chill with Frame Fighter, and be completely irrelevant except for the day a new frame is released...where there'll be a new section about in reviews about the subsumed power and which frames could benefit from it....until there's a new meta for the ability and DE wields the nerf hammer to make it completely worthless.

 

I don't like saying this, but it's bad economy topped with uninteresting powers and no appreciable benefits to use.  Exactly no logical reason exists to support the system, because every promise it made is already broken.  It's not for more experienced players.  It's not a way to tailor the frames to your style of play.  It's not about anything but eating up resources...and the rewards for feeding it more are for it to require more.  As such, it's effectively time gated and material gated. 

If the resource creation wasn't done by percentage, this would be better.  Plow resources in, get 2k Bile, then spend 80 for an infusion, and iterate quickly on powers that mattered would provide something fun with a cost for veteran players.  The gate wouldn't be about 24 hours, it'd be about how much you can spend.  That would reward us.  Unfortunately it's about time gating everything, powers that cannot be better than good, and resource costings which effectively deter anything but minimal spend to prevent enormous waste.  That's just an insane system. 

It's even funnier when you look at the returns.  10%-50%-100%.  If I feed the Helminth 9 argon crystals I don't get 90%, I get 48%.  I could also feed it sentient resources....and get 60% for the same feed (assuming I rank up and unlock the "reward" of spending more).  Not exactly shaking out to be a system designed to reward, more like another grind festival...on top of the grin to get the segment, after the 24 hour build wait, after the first time that an open world effectively required more standing than you could earn to rank up levels in because it requires sacrificing stuff that can only be earned by expending standing.  

 

 

I'm sorry for the digression.  Putting this into a single paragraph, Helminth is a system too mired in grind and non-rewarding of every level to be viable.  This insanity of economy is best exemplified in Bile.  That's why the costing is insane, and why DE agreed to review it.  They already denied the possibility of reviewing bad powers, despite the Helminth highlighting exactly which can be replaced on frames without any need of a second thought.  Despite that absolute dismissal, they agreed to review Bile.  That implies a level of issue which is insane....especially when none of this even hit the public test servers.  Unsurprisingly, the result is a mess.

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

From my limited use of it so far and seeing hte power list all I can say I would want right now is Helminth ability augments. Maybe put them the Deimos syndicate Loid's one over in the back. I can see a lot of use coming from these and can entice people maybe away from putting roar on everything or whatever is the current meta. To toss on a few ideas here.

 

Empower Augments

1. Thirst for Power - Empower now grants 10% ability strength but grows by 2% every second (cap of 200%?) Having Empower active now drains 1 Energy per second

alt idea in a similar vein

Empower can now be stacked 3 times and costs double per stack. (so 25, 50, 100 energy to stack to 150% power strength)

2. Empowered Body - Gain 100 armor and heal 2 hp per second while Empower is active (to use it as mroe of a body buff instead of a power buff) Empower now has a 10 second cooldown between casts.

 

Infested Mobility

1. Infested Force - Bullet jumps 6 meter knockdown and 200 impact damage while infested Mobility is active. Gain 10% damage reduction while sprinting and doing parkour

 

MAster's Summons.

1. Beast Master - Companion's get precept cooldowns reset and gain +30% damage and 10% damage reduction for 30 seconds.

 

Rebuild Shields

1. Shield Syphon - Now converts current shields to health, after casting Shields take 2 seconds longer to recharge.

 

Perspicacity 

1. Overcharge - Hacking opens all containers in 30 meters and disables robotic enemies for 8 seconds.

 

Energized Munitions

1. Energized Melee - melee weapons gain 2 combo for each strike.

 

These are just sample ideas I thought up over time.

 

Marked For Death -

Fueled by Death - Enemies killed within 3 seconds of being struck by mark for death's explosion have a 30% chance to drop a health orb and 15% chance to drop an energy orb.

 

Expedite Suffering

1. Prolonged Suffering - Doubles bleed and toxic stacks on an enemies and doubles the duration.

[(XBOX)CryingCross4970]

Greatly appreciated the ability to remove cyst earlier than it use to, this system adds a great amount of flexibility to modding and replacing what people would consider useless abilities biggest gripe is the material consumption but still a wip, hopefully some of the abilities will be streamlined to feel a bit more fluid with other frames, for example umbra with valkyr's warcry was really hoping it would keep the umbra howl but pretty funny to hear the sudden pitch change 

[Proscriptor]

24 minutes for 4500 cryotic with booster

i also got a bunch of prime loot

now tell me again how cryotic costs are "insane", how you need to farm more than 1h for 3k cryotic etc.

 

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Traubenzuckr said:

with booster

Not everyone can afford one... duh. You don't expect such things just for a one feed, right? You are not that .... kind of person.

1 hour ago, Traubenzuckr said:

now tell me again how cryotic costs are "insane", how you need to farm more than 1h for 3k cryotic etc.

Your next reply will that you get full squad of Smeeta with resource boosters. Or you are lucky. I could post post you a SS with ~600 cryotic If I had one.

[Proscriptor]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

Not everyone can afford one...

if you can't get a booster to accomplish important goals such as farming the specific resources you need, you are not a very experienced player

[quxier]

17 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

if you can't get a booster to accomplish important goals such as farming the specific resources you need, you are not a very experienced player

I need freaking booster because drops are low.... you know, I might be too old but I used to play games not farming resources for hours for simple things. I guess times changes. Kids those days might be ok with such grind/farm because they are taught that way.
And it's MR 8 requirement so they shouldn't expect this kind of grind. Think what MR 24 would require? 20k cryotic to get one of the 20 weapon parts?
 

[Proscriptor]

if i can farm 4.5k cryotic in 24 min with a pub mid/low-MR squad while using 0 braincells, everyone can do it

the only required things are:

- knowing how to play excavation

- booster (3 day = 40p)

as a "punishment" for this torturously slow farm that lasts hours (because 24 minutes = hours) i also get a bunch of prime loot

obviously this is "insane", "needs fixing", and "has an additional zero"

[quxier]

14 minutes ago, Traubenzuckr said:

if i can farm 4.5k cryotic in 24 min with a pub mid/low-MR squad while using 0 braincells, everyone can do it

the only required things are:

- knowing how to play excavation

- booster (3 day = 40p)

as a "punishment" for this torturously slow farm that lasts hours (because 24 minutes = hours) i also get a bunch of prime loot

obviously this is "insane", "needs fixing", and "has an additional zero"

Then multiply time by freaking 4, for solo players. Or even more if the enemies are bugged and don't spawn.
Understand that not everyone is like you spending 40p and farming for hours or have enough real money to buy it whenever you want.

Obviously, MR 8 will have 40p for boosters...
 

[Proscriptor]

i don't respect solo players

if you want to have success you need to be social

that's a lesson that warframe teaches us

and very experienced players know this lesson

[LapuLapo]

I'm sure other people have brought this up before, but I'd really like to be able to overwrite two separate frame abilities with the same helminth ability across two configs.
I don't particularly care how the system is changed to facilitate this, ideally it would just be an option as soon as I infuse ("What ability do you want to overwrite on A, What ability do you want to overwrite on config B" etc.) but if I'm forced to infuse multiple times, so be it.

Example:
I want to try out Marked for Death on a warframe. I'm really not sure which ability I want to swap out for it because they're all arguable. Right now, i'd need three copies of the frame to experiment with three possible swaps. Because right now, as soon as an ability is infused, I can't infuse that ability again unless I remove the first infusion from the frame. Even if it's only in one config, even if there are other uninfused configs.

Ideally, this would change so that I could (let's say I'm using Ash) replace Shuriken with M4D on config A, replace Smoke Screen with M4D on config B, and replace Teleport with M4D on config C, all as part of paying the first infuse cost. We're already allowed to do multiple configs in one go, why not let us vary the ability that gets replaced?

What would make this even better is, after I've experimented with those options, I could go back to Helminth and remove one or two of the infusions to free up space for future infusions on my config slots. To continue with Ash, let's say I end up preferring Config B where i've infused M4D over Smoke Screen: It would be great if I could simply turn off the infusion on the A and C configs rather than needing to remove all infusions entirely and have to redo it for B alone.

Hope this makes sense, and I hope that this functionality is considered.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, Traubenzuckr said:

i don't respect solo players

if you want to have success you need to be social

that's a lesson that warframe teaches us

and very experienced players know this lesson

Not sure if trolling or just stupid. Well... without "solo players" I won't talk with you across the globe... but sure, skip this add. Goodnight.

[kazenioware]

I tried.

I really did.

I have at this point 209 Scint, 273 casings, 95 engines, 99 pods, At least a dozen of each weapon part.

But no golden Necramech Trusters, Seismic Wave nor Streamline. Not a single one of them.                                           And some of the time i even had mod drop chance boosters on me.

At this point i'll give up on them, And since the vaults is the only mission to obtain them, it killed the mood to go there one more time. You increased that even more for future players by placing the other Necramods at Loid.

How so? You get the the more common mods at Loids, and the the real rare, which you probably do not get, those afford way more grinding. On that path you would get the more common mods anyway. So there is nothing, absolutely nothing between you and those 0.201% drop chance mods. Even if you are good and only after those mods, you get one chance every 8-10 minutes, depending on the tier. There is nothing else to get from this mission. No skin, no color, no variation, no surprise, no motivation.

After awhile you feel empty doing this.

This sucks.

[Borg1611]

I'm curious if there was any change to argon crystal drop chances in the void in any of the hotfixes since Deimos came out. 

When it first came out I felt like it was easily getting multiples almost every capture I did when I would go get some for the helminth and now I don't really. I'm not sure if the steel path booster is meant to apply to breaking crates and what not but it doesn't seem like there's any difference between normal and steel path when hunting for them. I thought the booster was effectively just a normal resource drop chance booster so I would think breaking crates to farm crystals in steel path would be more effective than in normal mode but if it does apply it isn't noticeable.