Melee Sliding, Why Are You So Ignored?

[taiiat]

i know the melee chains are coming, among other things to melee. this is soley about sliding.

 

currently, there is no difference between standing in one spot and swinging a sword, walking and swinging a sword, and sliding and swinging a sword.

 

yet, Warframe has a lot of different weapon damages based on certain attack moves already! clearly we're being enticed into different variety, but not all of it.

starting a Charge Attack, and immediately sliding, allows you to complete a Charge Attack while sliding. but, it's exactly the same as a normal Charge Attack.

 

if just about every other possible exotic melee attack does something differently and / or does more damage, why don't these slide attacks?

any increased damage would surely entice Tenno to take advantage of this combat tactic more often. 

if a weapon normally does 100dmg on a Charge Attack, increase it to like 110, or 120 if you perform a sliding maneuver. 

 

this is not exploitable, as once sliding, pressing the melee button performs a Spin Dash, and holding the melee button will generally do nothing, but can start a Charge Attack, however starting that Charge Attack always stops the slide.

so you must start charging First, then slide.

 

 

all in all, sliding is an exotic maneuver, yet unlike all the rest (Spin Dashes, Ground Slams, Wall Attacks, etc), Slide swings are not rewarded in any way, with Utility or damage benefits. nothing at all.

it makes sense that it would, because of all the rest changing the way the melee operates, generally increasing the damage, and in the case of Ground Smashes, trading some damage for AoE knockdown / stagger.

[sambarpowder]

starting a Charge Attack, and immediately sliding, allows you to complete a Charge Attack while sliding. but, it's exactly the same as a normal Charge Attack.

if just about every other possible exotic melee attack does something differently and / or does more damage, why don't these slide attacks? -They don't need damage, they provide the utility of allowing you to start a charge attack at one end of a room and finish it at the other.

all in all, sliding is an exotic maneuver - Sliding is a bread-and-butter simple and vital move in warframe

 

Sliding is something every player learns to do in order to move fast, and adding a damage bonus to something that is deemed almost necessary is rather silly. People use slide attacks regardless of the damage or secondary effects inflicted, and for good reason. It's primarily a movement utility move that acts as a gap closer and in some cases as a way to extend your jumps.

 

While a utility effect on slide attack could be worth exploring on a separate weapon, I believe the base mechanic doesn't require any change.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Crossflip

[KnaveSkye]

Sliding is something every player learns to do in order to move fast, and adding a damage bonus to something that is deemed almost necessary is rather silly. People use slide attacks regardless of the damage or secondary effects inflicted, and for good reason. It's primarily a movement utility move that acts as a gap closer and in some cases as a way to extend your jumps.

 

While a utility effect on slide attack could be worth exploring on a separate weapon, I believe the base mechanic doesn't require any change.

I think you misunderstood the OP. He is not referring to what is currently known as a slide attack, where the character generally spins with the weapon. He is referring to when you start a charged attack and then start a slide, where the charge attack will finish while sliding. I don't know that it should be rewarded...in fact I think it should just be removed...the idea behind a charge attack is winding up to put more power into it...you would not likely be able to apply that power in a slide maneuver. 

[sambarpowder]

I've already referred to that in the quote. Being able to charge up my weapon and bridge the gap between me and my target at the same time is enough of a reward/utility/whatever.

 

The rest of my post simply addresses why slide attacks don't need extra icing.

[PrismBlack]

It would be very interesting if they say added a knockback or stun/stagger to the slide swing depending on certain factors like

 

- Speed of players slide

- Size/weight of Weapon

- Size/weight of Target

 

This would make the slide swing very interesting imo. Also to me doing that would seem to add realistic physics to the attack *GASP Realism in a game? LOL ;p*
 

[Nagisawa]

Basic Melee sliding is waaaaay too complicated.  Finger gymnastics anyone?  W+Shift+Ctrl+e (Charged or not) is stupidly designed.

[USIncorp]

Basic Melee sliding is waaaaay too complicated.  Finger gymnastics anyone?  W+Shift+Ctrl+e (Charged or not) is stupidly designed.

Welcome to PC gaming

[Nagisawa]

Welcome to PC gaming

Maybe someone should tell developers that PC gaming is the future, and to make it too complicated for even the 'hardcore' to do it, then they'll lose customers.

[taiiat]

you would not likely be able to apply that power in a slide maneuver. 

the idea would be to swing said melee as hard as possible plus the velocity of the slide.

it's certainly not reasonable for the average human, but in a living suit of armor that could for one, take over stabilizing your balance among other things, seems far more plausible.

 

 

The rest of my post simply addresses why slide attacks don't need extra icing.

Tenno clearly don't think this maneuver is worth it, the majority of Tenno i've ever mentioned such a maneuver ingame to, hasn't even known you can do this. 

but, a small bonus would probably entice Tenno to experimenting with this maneuver.

 

 

Maybe someone should tell developers that PC gaming is the future, and to make it too complicated for even the 'hardcore' to do it, then they'll lose customers.

while i can understand the problem, i personally feel it is not particularly difficult to execute things like slide attacks and jumping spindashes. 

these combinations never require more than two buttons pressed at any given time(3 for extreme occasions), so i press them in two sets of two. not too hard ;)

is that the same for everything? i'm sure it's not. Daniel Floyd considers Spin Dashes to be very difficult, while the majority of Warframe players don't agree with that. and that's okay, he's a different person.

 

i suggest starting your melee Charge, and instantly pressing forward & sprint, and roll your sprint finger down onto crouch immediately after. only took three fingers ;) two if you press melee and roll onto forwards simultaneously.

[r3dzer0]

should be rewarded since spin dash does charge attack damage if i remember correctly

[-Kittens-]

Slide attacking doesn't work particularly well.

 

It has a built in delay, and then when you add rampant input lag on top of that, it's only useful to rushers as a slide ender.

 

No point in enhancing something that never worked right to begin with.

Edited October 21, 2013 by -Kittens-

[taiiat]

It has a built in delay, and then when you add rampant input lag on top of that, it's onlu useful to rushers as a slide ender.

o.0 i can do it just fine. '100%' of the time. unless i press the buttons wrong.

 

start melee Charge, then sprint and slide at the same time. i find it very reliable. i suggest editing your driver settings and running Warframe at a framerate of 58 or 62 if you're having input lag at 60. there is some Mouse Acceleration in the menus, but other than that i don't think i've ever had input lag in Warframe.

should be rewarded since spin dash does charge attack damage if i remember correctly

it doesn't deal Charge Damage, but it does deal a considerably higher amount of damage than a quick strike does, and isn't that far off a Charge Attack.

[Jownzy]

i didn't read all the other comments just the main thread comment but i would saying wall attacks are more ignored than slide striking. I always use the slide feature with my melee

[-Kittens-]

It has nothing to do with my video settings.

 

I have to two Titans and a 580 running phx and vsync is off for warframe. The game has had mechanic/script based input lag since cb2, and it's only gotten worse, and is heavily compounded if you're the host.

Edited October 21, 2013 by -Kittens-

[Eidolon_Slayer]

Here's a tip. Charge attack then slide spin attack immediately for a cool combo.

[sewens]

I LOVE this idea.

 

There need to be more ways to chain melee with locomotion (moving) and different ways to use melee rather than killing or stealth attacks (tripping, disabling, stunning, knockup/knockdown). Some might argue that sliding and slide charges are already difficult enough but the purpose of a game is difficulty and reward. Players who want to do these things because they look cool will learn on their own.

[Llyssa]

I thought sliding always multiplies the damage by 150%?

[taiiat]

I have to two Titans and a 580 running phx and vsync is off for warframe. The game has had mechanic/script based input lag since cb2, and it's only gotten worse, and is heavily compounded if you're the host.

it's extremely unlikely this is a hardware issue, i already just assumed you were getting a perfect framerate anyways.

i still don't think i've noticed anything. one thing does come to mind though, every once in a while i'll do key combinations completely correctly and all of the actions won't execute, but that's usually related to surfaces having many faces to them, such as some spots in the Grineer Galleons where i'll do a Jumping Spindash combination, and find myself instead, just running off a cliff into the abyss. because my character hadn't actually jumped. 

 

perhaps happenings like that are part of the issue.

 

by the by, two titans and a PhysX 580 is such a waste, and you know it. you'd be getting the same framerate with two 580's, or two 6/770/80's :p

 

edit:

I thought sliding always multiplies the damage by 150%?

if it did, Galatine would one shot like... f*ckin' anything with one swing, lol. i'm pretty sure it's the same as if you were standing still.

 

There need to be more ways to chain melee with locomotion (moving) and different ways to use melee rather than killing

yes, that's the idea. Digital Extremes keeps telling us this is a fast-paced game, but we're missing many of those features that encourage Tenno to keep the pace up and execute exotic movements as a norm. 

 

this certainly isn't some generic First Person Shooter where the only place melee exists is a press button, model whips across screen for half a second and if it hits anything they die :p Warframe is much more complex than that. and Tenno should be rewarded for using the complexness that is there on purpose.

Edited October 21, 2013 by taiiat

[Cabadath5]

Please don't.....

 

People are already flying around with mid air slides and melee weapons as it is and in my opinion it's silly.

 

If anything some sort of charging attack (sprint plus charged melee) would be better and a LOT less ridiculous.....just....no more sliding, please........

 

 

 

UNLESS they add some cool spark effects when sliding.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Cabadath5

[taiiat]

People are already flying around with mid air slides and melee weapons as it is and in my opinion it's silly.

 

UNLESS they add some cool spark effects when sliding.

i fail to see the problem with that, in a fast-paced, non-motion locked game. if you want everyone to be motion locked, play the thousands of other games out there, they have plenty of motion lock. Warframe is doing something different, and you want to say it shouldn't? that's ridiculous.

 

there... already is?

[Cabadath5]

i fail to see the problem with that, in a fast-paced, non-motion locked game. if you want everyone to be motion locked, play the thousands of other games out there, they have plenty of motion lock. Warframe is doing something different, and you want to say it shouldn't? that's ridiculous.

 

there... already is?

You misunderstood what I wanted to say.

I don't want this game to be turned into ME 3-F2P edition.What I would really like is more accent on:

-parkouring in order to reach better firing positions or to reach certain areas faster;

-actually having to parry if you want to charge head on into melee;

-dodging attacks;

 

and less on:

 

-running past every enemy because they are shooting nerf guns at you and because you can sprint indefinitely thanks to sliding;

-silly stuff such as mid air kicking an entire horde of enemies (cuz y'know, those grineer soldiers weight only as much as a paper towel);

-turning into a helicopter with fast attacking melee weapons+slide attacks;

-jumping as if shot out of a cannon when ending a wall-run.

[VoltekkaNL]

Basic Melee sliding is waaaaay too complicated.  Finger gymnastics anyone?  W+Shift+Ctrl+e (Charged or not) is stupidly designed.

 

I think some one underestimates the power of rebinding the keys to suit their style.

[taiiat]

You misunderstood what I wanted to say.

I don't want this game to be turned into ME 3-F2P edition.What I would really like is more accent on:

-parkouring in order to reach better firing positions or to reach certain areas faster;

-actually having to parry if you want to charge head on into melee;

-dodging attacks;

 

and less on:

 

-running past every enemy because they are shooting nerf guns at you and because you can sprint indefinitely thanks to sliding;

-silly stuff such as mid air kicking an entire horde of enemies (cuz y'know, those grineer soldiers weight only as much as a paper towel);

-turning into a helicopter with fast attacking melee weapons+slide attacks;

-jumping as if shot out of a cannon when ending a wall-run.

ME3 is very motion locked though @.@ i don't want Warframe to be it either. there's certainly some things we can learn from ME3 but... it's a totally different game. it's designed around extremely slow pacing, and being just a full on badass shooting people in the face and throwing all kinds of space opera magic powers around corners and having a ball ruining everyone's day. 

but, there's still things here and there Warframe can learn from ME3, because they share a few of the same features.

 

- honestly, i dislike that i run out of Stamina sometimes at all. because i use those exotic maneuvers in combat a lot to change position and get advantages.

- i suppose i can agree that kicking over an entire group of enemies seems a might bit silly, but i can live with it.

- don't you touch my helicopter moves now, i actually use those as part of my combat techniques. the fact that other people can abuse them to ruin a mission doesn't change their tactical awesomeness in combat. there's so many different ways i use Spindashes in combat.

- while i can somewhat agree wall vaulting is kind've silly, it's very useful to keep velocity up in longer parkour segments, as well as crossing distances.

and honestly, this one seems justified since these living suits of armor surely augment the normal muscular system.

 

 

i totally agree with Parries and Dodging. i will not back down from a challenge presented to us if using melee would require these factors, as well as if utilizing gunfire to effective extent also did. 

 

I think some one underestimates the power of rebinding the keys to suit their style.

expecting people to even know a control customization or options menu exists is a long stretch :/

my own Clannies will complain about a control being on button X or not knowing how to do action Y in a game, and i always have the same answer. customize your damn controls, video and audio settings BEFORE you play the friggin game. 

Edited October 22, 2013 by taiiat

[RayTheReaper]

Basic Melee sliding is waaaaay too complicated.  Finger gymnastics anyone?  W+Shift+Ctrl+e (Charged or not) is stupidly designed.

that's why a lot of people who switch from console to pc (like me) use a console controller, everything is a lot easier. the only thing im having trouble with is melee, I have to turn both joysticks and press the button to get a simple melee attack. if anything the DE need to make it a little easier to use with game controllers, they would pull in more console players.

[RayTheReaper]

okay im seeing a lot of people whining about the physics of the game, guys are a race of highly specialized and elite aliens wearing the most advanced armors in the known universe. why does it seem impossible that we can kick over hordes of enemies like "wet toilet paper". honestly I like it. considering the amount of enemies we go through.