Redeemer Prime's status application is weird

[v1ld_wf]

Edit: please ignore this post.  Traumtulpe re-tested and didn't see the problem - and I can't either when I tested again just now.  So, in short: status works on the Redeemer Prime as it should.  Not sure what I did yesterday to not see any status pop up.  All's well and happy to be wrong about this cool weapon.

 

TL;DR:  Please restore Redeemer Prime to being a status-based weapon since the Stropha is already an excellent crit-based weapon, especially for heavy attacks.  As it stands the Redeemer Prime is only usable as a weaker version of the Stropha albeit with better range because something is wonky about how it applies status.

Way too much detail follows, please feel free to skip.

Redeemer Prime (RP hereinafter) got a bump to 30% status in the great shotgun status chance change of '20.  That 30% is for blade attack while per pellet status seems to be close to 3% (close to the 30%/10 pellets).  The wiki says that heavy attacks bump per-pellet chance to 9% per pellet.

If it's 9% per pellet, then a maxed combo Weeping Wounds (WW hereinafter) should bring it to 48.6% per pellet - assuming that WW works per pellet, which is completely unclear.  But on that assumption a full 10 pellet heavy attack shot has somewhere near 95%+ of applying at least 3 statuses to the target (calculated precisely yesterday and don't wish to redo right now, but happy to on request).

Further, the RP has blast in its heavy attack and a forced impact proc per pellet.  With a 48.6% status chance, IPS + one element on the weapon + blast attack + forced impact proc, we would expect to see a lot of statuses applied in a single heavy attack shot: 3-4 of the 5 available (counting the forced impact proc once).   Instead it is very very unusual to see anything more than the forced impact procs on the target.  You will see the odd application of one more status, but it is not common.

The test was in the simulacrum with maxed Weeping Wounds, one elemental combo (viral), focus energy (electricity), and heavy shots taken at max combo counter (12x).  If the per pellet chance is 9% for heavy attacks, this should proc 4-5 statuses per shot easily from the 6 available statuses: forced impact + puncture, slash, blast, viral, electric.

It's difficult to believe that Weeping Wounds isn't working on just this weapon.  So some other possibilities are:

• RP's Weeping Wounds calculation is being applied to the blade's status chance and has no effect on the per-pellet status chance.  (My personal favorite theory.)
• RP's per-pellet heavy attack status chance is significantly lower than 9%.
• Weeping Wounds doesn't work on the gunblade heavy attack. 

The effect of all this is that it seems best to play the Redeemer Prime as a pure crit, heavy attack weapon. 

Thing is, that's a niche filled extremely well by the Stropha (a very fun weapon and balanced for very short range - more like this please!).   So having the Redeemer Prime be a slightly longer range version of the Stropha doesn't make sense.  Can we please have the Redeemer Prime apply more per-shot status please?  Else it becomes a pure blade weapon or a pure crit weapon.

[Traumtulpe]

Redeemer shots do not deal any Impact, Slash, or Puncture damage.

[KitMeHarder]

34 minutes ago, v1ld_wf said:

As it stands the Redeemer Prime is only usable as a weaker version of the Stropha

• Redeemer's heavy attacks have more base damage
• It has much better range
• Can headshot
• Has faster follow-up shots
• And it still has 90% status chance compared to the Stropha's 14%

The Stropha is great for mobbing, but the Redeemer is still the bossing crit king.

[v1ld_wf]

4 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

Redeemer shots do not deal any Impact, Slash, or Puncture damage.

Good point!  So then the active damage types are: Blast + elementals on weapon (viral, electric in my case).   They don't show up on the target except very very rarely, where they should be very common if it's 9% per pellet + WW.  

Confusing that Impact is a foced proc but not an applied damage - thanks for clarifying.

[v1ld_wf]

4 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

• Redeemer's heavy attacks have more base damage
• It has better range
• Can headshot
• Has faster follow-up shots
• And it still has 90% status chance compared to the Stropha's 14%

The Stropha is great for mobbing, but the Redeemer is still the bossing crit king.

Valid points - other than the status, which seems useless on RP at present for shots (not for blade!).  It's a good crit weapon for sure.  Question is, do we need it and Stropha to be so similar other than for wider spread on Stropha vs longer range on RP?  It's somewhat disappointing to be running the same build on both mostly - I like melee efficiency so that's what I run on both.

[Traumtulpe]

6 minutes ago, v1ld_wf said:

They don't show up on the target except very very rarely, where they should be very common if it's 9% per pellet + WW.

I just tested it for you, with only Weeping Wounds I got 4-6 Blast procs per heavy attack.

[KitMeHarder]

14 minutes ago, v1ld_wf said:

Question is, do we need it and Stropha to be so similar other than for wider spread on Stropha vs longer range on RP?  It's somewhat disappointing to be running the same build on both mostly

The fact the Redeemer can headshot makes it do massively more damage to a single target compared to the Stropha. And the fact I don't have to be within 10m of the enemy to do good damage it a big factor in a lot of the bosses where you need that damage. So yes.

And you run the same build on almost any "efficient" weapon, but DE made it even more-so after they reworked melee. There was much more build diversity before, and now there are only 3 types of melee builds, and you mod each the same way within each type.

• No combo
• Combo
• Heavy attack/forced slash proc heavy attack 

 

[v1ld_wf]

11 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

I just tested it for you, with only Weeping Wounds I got 4-6 Blast procs per heavy attack.

And you're absolutely right!  I just tested again with Bullet Dance, North Wind, Fever Strike, Weeping Wounds, True Punishment, and Focus Energy and it's applying 4 statuses at max combo like a champ right now.  So I obviously screwed up something when testing yesterday.

Thanks for independently verifying.  I'll amend the first post to say ignore this.

Cheers.

[v1ld_wf]

4 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

The fact the Redeemer can headshot makes it do massively more damage to a single target compared to the Stropha. And the fact I don't have to be within 10m of the enemy to do good damage it a big factor in a lot of the bosses where you need that damage. So yes.

And you run the same build on almost any "efficient" weapon, but DE made it even more-so after they reworked melee. There was much more build diversity before, and now there are only 3 types of melee builds, and you mod each the same way within each type.

• No combo
• Combo
• Heavy attack/forced slash proc heavy attack 

 

So my base assumption seems to be wrong as I retested and confirmed that it works as Traumtulpe said.   Your points are good - and further, it looks like RP is very viable on the status side too.  So ignore my post, I'll build for more combo/status.

Still not sure what I was doing differently yesterday - oh well, happy to be wrong here.