Why can’t the host kick people out of the squad while in the orbiter?

[Godmode_Ash]

1 hour ago, (PS4)GingyGreen said:

And if those people are so "toxic" as you claim, then don't play with them and join another game. Do you really want to play with someone who is supposedly so "toxic"? Because the reverse is even worse. Worst case scenario you have 3 people toxic to 1 player and kick them. Just join a less toxic group. But now the game is stuck in scenarios with it's one toxic jackass screwing over 3 other players and being an inconvenience to them.

 

"Just leave and remake the game" is such a stupid suggestion that doesn't even bandaid the problems with this game. Unless DE decides to implement a filter so that only people fitting certain parameters, like something other than a working non-mote amp for Tridolons, filter out Limbo's or Banshees for hosts who don't want to put up with them, etc. Kicking is the only solution.

 

This isn't even getting to the more egregious cases that tends to happen mid-mission. An idiot who decides to start trolling during the Hydrolyst phase, a troll who took control of the Railjack and start blowing all resources and committing suicide, etc. Unless you're the type who does those things, there aren't a lot of reasons to be opposed to kicking.

You made it sound like this game is some serious business that if you don't kick one person, he could ruining it for everyone. But how would you know that before you start the mission? Isn't this what I have been saying: people like to judge the others, people like to tell the other how to play?

Why are you judging random player? If you have problem with people not playing at their fullest, go to recruitment and make your own group.

Also as I explained, you can't add kick in premade group(recruitment) as it will ruining random game. They are both tight to the same public mode. (unless DE decide to make another separate mode, which someone already suggest in this thread).

I am only average IQ and I can already think of few ways to troll people with kick. You don't think there people who are more devious and annoying than me out there?

 

36 minutes ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

I disagree because people keep bringing up irrelevant points they wouldn’t be bringing up if they got what I was talking about. 

Did you read my post?

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

I provided an example that currently exists in the game and that it doesn’t cause problems. It’s not conclusive proof, but it’s better than any proof from the people who disagree. 

This is NOT serious business. This is a VIDEO GAME. 

Mephane already solved the issue defining an option that clean out pugs keeping friends. 

This problem was already solved without the need of a kick option. You got what you wanted. The rest is implementation and suggest the idea on DE's forum or the next fresh update. 

 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

11 hours ago, Invoky said:

Did you read my post?

Mostly. I didn’t pay much attention after you said no kicking during missions because that wasn’t what the post was about and only one of the 5 scenarios actually had to do with the post. It’s not just you though. I’ve barely paid attention to anyone mentioning vote kicking or mid mission kicking.
 

Anyway, in the relevant scenario you suggested I just reform the squad, which is exactly what I’m trying to not have to do. I don’t want that as the solution and plenty of people have agreed with me to show I’m not the only one thinking that way. 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

10 hours ago, Felsagger said:

This is NOT serious business. This is a VIDEO GAME. 

Then what’s the harm in at least doing a test run for the kicking feature? De could add it and monitor how people react to it and see if it’s something that people like or if it causes problems. They can then decide to keep it or not based on those reactions. 

 

10 hours ago, Felsagger said:

Mephane already solved the issue defining an option that clean out pugs keeping friends. 

This problem was already solved without the need of a kick option. You got what you wanted. The rest is implementation and suggest the idea on DE's forum or the next fresh update. 

That suggestion is literally in my original post. The wording is different, but the basic idea of having squads automatically disbanding and keeping friends after a mission is the same. Personally though, I don’t like having 2 different public matchmakings. It would just increase the time it takes to find a squad. I’d rather it be an option you toggle on and off since you wouldn’t need another matchmaking.  Also acting like mephanes suggestion is an instant fix and the only possible solution seems hard headed and petty because it feels like you’re only wanting his solution because it’s not one of my solutions. 

[Felsagger]

3 hours ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

Then what’s the harm in at least doing a test run for the kicking feature? De could add it and monitor how people react to it and see if it’s something that people like or if it causes problems. They can then decide to keep it or not based on those reactions. 

No. 

Quote

 

That suggestion is literally in my original post. The wording is different, but the basic idea of having squads automatically disbanding and keeping friends after a mission is the same. Personally though, I don’t like having 2 different public matchmakings. It would just increase the time it takes to find a squad. I’d rather it be an option you toggle on and off since you wouldn’t need another matchmaking.

Mephane worded it without the kick feature. It covers the solution you proposed without the intention to cause toxicity. Since the system is automatic there are no consequences because everybody understands that is an algorithm that keeps friends tied while pugs are cleaned out in a certain selection. 

Quote

 

 Also acting like mephanes suggestion is an instant fix and the only possible solution seems hard headed and petty because it feels like you’re only wanting his solution because it’s not one of my solutions. 

Because it is a solution without any kick option for players. It got supported by many readers in this thread and the adequate agreement among players in here. 

The community provided a fair solution that is better than yours. Such solution encompasses a consensus. 

 

So sorry BRUH, but you have to let it go and move on....

 

Your problem is solved. 

 

[Godmode_Ash]

4 hours ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

Mostly. I didn’t pay much attention after you said no kicking during missions because that wasn’t what the post was about and only one of the 5 scenarios actually had to do with the post. It’s not just you though. I’ve barely paid attention to anyone mentioning vote kicking or mid mission kicking.
 

Anyway, in the relevant scenario you suggested I just reform the squad, which is exactly what I’m trying to not have to do. I don’t want that as the solution and plenty of people have agreed with me to show I’m not the only one thinking that way. 

You assumed I didn't understand you like many people above. That's why I had to make a list so you could see the relation between scenario 2 and 5. Anyway it all comes down to these two:

1) kicking can be abuse in public mode.

2) kicking can't be implement without player abusing unless public mode has separate mode within.

 

At this point I am not even sure why we still arguing, really tire of this thread.

[Felsagger]

7 minutes ago, Invoky said:

 

At this point I am not even sure why we still arguing, really tire of this thread.

 

yup

The solution was given, a clean one and the options where presented formally. As you said. At this point there is no need to continue developing the subject since the problem was solved in a precise and exact manner. 

 

 

[Godmode_Ash]

17 hours ago, (PS4)Yggranya said:

They simply don't want anyone having the ability to kick, because they know it would be used against them for good reason. You could ask what they do to have a reason to fear that, but i doubt they will tell you.

My guess is, they do everything in their power to make sure nobody else can take part in the mission, and they know people would actually like to play the game. They will counter with the usual "people thank me when i make it boring for everyone!" but that is just BS. As always, arguing with these... people is pointless.

Your post makes no sense. You are thinking we are arguing against kick because we are trolls - we don't want to get kick for ruining missions.

For the sake of argument, lets assuming you are right and the kick feature is added to the game. So what are you going to do if we start trolling you by abusing kicks pre-mission? What if there are more people like us? Wouldn't that just make the game worse?

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

On 2020-09-25 at 2:39 PM, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

If people don’t like the host kicking, then how about an option to toggle keeping friends in the squad and randoms would load out of missions in their own squad if toggled on while you’re the host. That’s the only other thing I can think of off the top of my head to avoid lingering randoms.

There’s what I said. 

 

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

No. 

Quote

 

That suggestion is literally in my original post. The wording is different, but the basic idea of having squads automatically disbanding and keeping friends after a mission is the same. Personally though, I don’t like having 2 different public matchmakings. It would just increase the time it takes to find a squad. I’d rather it be an option you toggle on and off since you wouldn’t need another matchmaking.

Expand  

Mephane worded it without the kick feature. It covers the solution you proposed without the intention to cause toxicity. Since the system is automatic there are no consequences because everybody understands that is an algorithm that keeps friends tied while pugs are cleaned out in a certain selection. 

Quote

 

 Also acting like mephanes suggestion is an instant fix and the only possible solution seems hard headed and petty because it feels like you’re only wanting his solution because it’s not one of my solutions. 

Because it is a solution without any kick option for players. It got supported by many readers in this thread and the adequate agreement among players in here. 

The community provided a fair solution that is better than yours. Such solution encompasses a consensus. 

Basically you’re only disagreeing with me because you saw the word kick and didn’t read anything else I wrote. I don’t see why you’re expecting me to take anything you say seriously at this point. 
 

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

So sorry BRUH, but you have to let it go and move on..

That’s the kind of thing people say when they can’t make their point, but don’t want to admit they’re wrong. 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

39 minutes ago, Invoky said:

1) kicking can be abuse in public mode.

2) kicking can't be implement without player abusing unless public mode has separate mode within.

1) I gave an example showing that it’s not likely to get abused in this game. 
 

2) there’s already separate modes. If you don’t want to deal with people kicking you out of the squad in the orbiter, then go friends only or solo. 
 

42 minutes ago, Invoky said:

At this point I am not even sure why we still arguing, really tire of this thread.

No one is forcing you to come back to it. 

[Godmode_Ash]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

1) I gave an example showing that it’s not likely to get abused in this game. 
 

2) there’s already separate modes. If you don’t want to deal with people kicking you out of the squad in the orbiter, then go friends only or solo. 
 

No one is forcing you to come back to it. 

How do you give examples that it will not get abuse? Abusing is a possibility. Even if you give one example that it won't be abuse, there could be 10 examples showing people could abuse it. The problem is adding kicks opens up that "possibility."

Also I am not worry about getting kick. I have no life, I play this game too much so I excel at it. I am mainly arguing by logic and try to think for those casual players.

[Felsagger]

1 hour ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

Basically you’re only disagreeing with me because you saw the word kick and didn’t read anything else I wrote. I don’t see why you’re expecting me to take anything you say seriously at this point. 

 

Its very simple. We don't want kick or vote kick in this game. It survived for seven years without it. We don't need it. The option was provided. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

That’s the kind of thing people say when they can’t make their point, but don’t want to admit they’re wrong. 

Mephane already provided a fair solution for what you submitted. We already agreed with it. 

Simple. 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

2 hours ago, Invoky said:

How do you give examples that it will not get abuse? Abusing is a possibility. Even if you give one example that it won't be abuse, there could be 10 examples showing people could abuse it. The problem is adding kicks opens up that "possibility."

Also I am not worry about getting kick. I have no life, I play this game too much so I excel at it. I am mainly arguing by logic and try to think for those casual players.

The example is host disbanding and reforming with his friends doesn’t get abused even though it’s basically kicking with extra steps. Also I think casual players would prefer the kick option to avoid lingering randoms without having to disband the squad. 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

Its very simple. We don't want kick or vote kick in this game. It survived for seven years without it. We don't need it. The option was provided. 

You don’t want it. Plenty of people on this thread did want it. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Felsagger said:

Mephane already provided a fair solution for what you submitted. We already agreed with it. 

Simple. 

Mephane had the same solution I provided so if his solution is fair, then my solution is fair and there’s no reason for you to oppose it. 

[SpicyDinosaur]

People are complaining and saying "then we should get rid of region chat" While I don't care about this issue and have no dog in the hunt regarding host kicking or not...

 

YES, please DE, REMOVE REGION. It is a toxic cesspool. There's no reason to have it now that we have the Q&A channel for newbies. Scrap it, throw it in the trash, it's a sewer.

[Felsagger]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

You don’t want it. Plenty of people on this thread did want it. 

The community opposed it in many threads. Do your search. 

5 minutes ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

Mephane had the same solution I provided so if his solution is fair, then my solution is fair and there’s no reason for you to oppose it. 

You forced my hand. 

 

[Godmode_Ash]

2 hours ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

The example is host disbanding and reforming with his friends doesn’t get abused even though it’s basically kicking with extra steps. Also I think casual players would prefer the kick option to avoid lingering randoms without having to disband the squad. 

Do you actually try to read the opposing idea anymore? Or are you just in denial? You basically just randomly quote something then type something.

I literally just told you any example wouldn't matter because the feature adds the possibility of being abuse. Then you just repeat the exactly same thing again like a voice recorder.

The example you give is a host made a premade group in public mode. He can decide who he wants in his group. It seem fair because his group his rule. However that is still under public mode. If we give public mode "removing" option. What if the group composition is 4 random and the host decide to be a jerk/troll? Wouldn't that just open up the possibility of abusing?

Because there is no separate mode whether you premade your own group or just randoms, they are both under public mode.

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

The community opposed it in many threads. Do your search. 

I have searched and I’m the first person to suggest letting the host kick people in the orbiter. Every other post I’ve found about kicking has been about vote kicking. Unless the other people who suggest host kicking deleted their post, then the community hasn’t opposed my idea.

2 hours ago, Felsagger said:

You forced my hand. 

 

Avoiding the subject is also what people do when they don’t want to admit they’re wrong. 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

15 minutes ago, Invoky said:

Do you actually try to read the opposing idea anymore? Or are you just in denial? You basically just randomly quote something then type something.

I literally just told you any example wouldn't matter because the feature adds the possibility of being abuse. Then you just repeat the exactly same thing again like a voice recorder.

I admit it opens the possibility of abuse and I gave that example to show it’s not likely to be abused. If I’m repeating myself, then it’s because people don’t pay attention to what I’m saying. 

[Godmode_Ash]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

I admit it opens the possibility of abuse and I gave that example to show it’s not likely to be abused. If I’m repeating myself, then it’s because people don’t pay attention to what I’m saying. 

You can't trust people, especially the people online. I have played online game over a decade, I know how "creative" people can be.

I haven't really follow your comment with the other dude. But I have been saying the same thing since page 2. This topic should have been concluded long ago.

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

30 minutes ago, Invoky said:

The example you give is a host made a premade group in public mode. He can decide who he wants in his group. It seem fair because his group his rule. However that is still under public mode. If we give public mode "removing" option. What if the group composition is 4 random and the host decide to be a jerk/troll? Wouldn't that just open up the possibility of abusing?

Because there is no separate mode whether you premade your own group or just randoms, they are both under public mode.

What exactly is the difference between that and the host disbanding the squad? If the host is going to kick everyone just for the sake of kicking people, then they’re most likely going to disband since that can be done in one button press. No one can also explain why this will suddenly become toxic just because people don’t have to disband the squad to get rid of people they don’t want. I also don’t see it making much difference because whether someone gets kicked by the host or the host disbands, then that person will just go back into the mission. There’s usually enough people doing missions for people to avoid running into a troll kicking people who join. 
 

 

7 minutes ago, Invoky said:

You can't trust people, especially the people online. I have played online game over a decade, I know how "creative" people can be.

I know how creative people can be too and that’s why I tried to come up with a way that would limit the amount of options people have to troll. 

[Godmode_Ash]

1 hour ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

What exactly is the difference between that and the host disbanding the squad? If the host is going to kick everyone just for the sake of kicking people, then they’re most likely going to disband since that can be done in one button press. No one can also explain why this will suddenly become toxic just because people don’t have to disband the squad to get rid of people they don’t want. I also don’t see it making much difference because whether someone gets kicked by the host or the host disbands, then that person will just go back into the mission. There’s usually enough people doing missions for people to avoid running into a troll kicking people who join. 
 

 

I know how creative people can be too and that’s why I tried to come up with a way that would limit the amount of options people have to troll. 

I agree that a host can be toxic and abusive as well. I have seem some host getting upset for players rushing too fast. So they disband and cause the mitgaion, some people ending up lost reward and got reset back to the obiter.

The hosting issue will always be there because this is a peer to peer game. The difference between host disband and adding kick is that one is already exist-it can't be remove.

I really do wish there is a way we can resolve the whole peer to peer problems but I highly doubt.

 

[(PSN)SouthSideSwanga]

1 hour ago, Invoky said:

I agree that a host can be toxic and abusive as well. I have seem some host getting upset for players rushing too fast. So they disband and cause the mitgaion, some people ending up lost reward and got reset back to the obiter.

The hosting issue will always be there because this is a peer to peer game. The difference between host disband and adding kick is that one is already exist-it can't be remove.

I really do wish there is a way we can resolve the whole peer to peer problems but I highly doubt.

 

I gave an alternative to the kicking option that would resolve this without giving the host kicking privileges, but people just wanted to focus on the word kick. I’ll probably have to make a new post without the word kick so people can read everything else I write.

[Felsagger]

10 hours ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

Avoiding the subject is also what people do when they don’t want to admit they’re wrong. 

The problem here is that you don't know when to shut up and move on. You don't know the meaning of the word no. You don't know when to stop. You are the exact reason why I would kick someone out of the squad. 

Now take that as a real reason why I do not want kicking in the orbiter or anywhere in the game. I want a community with modals and civic behavior. I want a community that deal the problems in a civilized way instead of a band of hooligan hoodlums without education. There are ways to solve the problems, Mephane provided one similar to yours but it is automatic and better suited for the game. 

If a kick is implemented that will fragment the community even more. We don't want that environment. Other communities have that luxury because they are numerous. Developers have the luxury to lose and gain clients all the time. In here the game lives up to updates otherwise the game is dead dead dead. 

Learn the meaning of the word enough. Learn the fact that not everybody is going to think like you. Learn the fact that people have a different mindset than yours. Welcome to the real world where people think by themselves. 

 

 

I will tenaciously oppose the idea of kicking in this game. Period. 

 

 

[Felsagger]

8 hours ago, (PS4)SouthSideSwanga said:

I gave an alternative to the kicking option that would resolve this without giving the host kicking privileges, but people just wanted to focus on the word kick. I’ll probably have to make a new post without the word kick so people can read everything else I write.

 

 

Finally he understood.