3rd Party Programs ban policy

[Tyreaus]

13 minutes ago, Pasc96 said:

It sure is easy to remember to turn everything off, but I know I am prone to slip. I will just forget it once as this is pretty much a habit and all it takes is one mistake and this freaks me out. All I am asking from DE is some leniency after the flag because judging by support's input on the matter there is no leniency whatsoever. Am I being absurd?

Are you being absurd? Kind of. If you have a habit of slipping up, how many mistakes should be allowed? 2? 5? 12? 32? The line of reasoning you present here works with any number. At a certain point, you run into the issue Tsukinoki and I mentioned: you start letting people run through a list of cheat softwares until they find one (or some setting) that works.

[Hobie-wan]

On 2020-09-28 at 9:32 AM, johnno23 said:

My problem is that I can find zero information that states mapping a difficult key combo that I am unable to perform to a mouse button is permitted.

As @Tyreaus noted, I think you'd be fine with the mouse software that comes with the mouse. But if you wanted to be really sure, you could create another account (with a different email) to test with. As long at that test account never trades/interacts with your real one, it's not a problem. Unless you need to test something that's going to take hours to get (stances or whatever), you could get some peace of mind there.

17 hours ago, Pasc96 said:

The best solution is to give the players the chance to at least appeal the ban. For something really stupid you can lose hours upon hours of commitment.

You had your chance 'oops', it was your 2 week trade ban.

If you insist on playing with cheat stuff and are using it in instances where you're not affecting other players in those other games, make more effort to make sure you don't have them running when you don't mean to. Bring up a config screen or something for that program so it's sitting there staring you in the face when you exit that other game so you remember to close it immediately. Create a different user on your PC that has only shortcuts for the cheat program and that other game handy and a background that says "Remember you're in cheat mode" or something and log off that user completely and go back to your regular for Warframe and normal operations. Use an older completely different PC that's only used for cheat tinkering.

Otherwise, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[IamLoco]

On 2020-09-28 at 8:50 AM, Pasc96 said:

but I like cheating and breaking limits in games

Isn´t that statement enough?

[IamLoco]

8 hours ago, Pasc96 said:

It sure is easy to remember to turn everything off, but I know I am prone to slip. I will just forget it once as this is pretty much a habit and all it takes is one mistake and this freaks me out. All I am asking from DE is some leniency after the flag because judging by support's input on the matter there is no leniency whatsoever. Am I being absurd?

Yes, you sound completely absurd!

Let me summarize:

- You are deliberately using cheat software while running Warframe, yet you complain you got paranoid for getting a warning - due to that cheat software

- You run other games while playing Warframe on Steel Path (leeching XP in parties?)

- You don´t even get the idea that you might just shut down other games and cheat software while playing Warframe

Why do you even post? Isn´t the answer crystal clear? 

[johnno23]

Thank you for the info on the mouse software. It does seem to be a little more clear after having read some more threads and reading the replies made here.

I think for myself in my situation it is maybe a simple case of working out what keyboard convolutions I am having difficulty with working out the correct input for the mouse I will use and sending the information direct to DE via a support ticket. After all a logitech mouse is what I will use as I use a logitech keyboard and the software is specifically for the mouse buttons.

I imagine it is easy enough for DE to say yay or nay via a support ticket if I offer the precise details of what I wish to do. My only real concern was would that mouse software be regarded as a third party software and get flagged as possible cheating.

[Martyriel]

Not sure if this does any good, but I have been in a similar situation.

Played a game in the morning (Pathfinder Kingmaker, edited my gold with CE), well and forgot to close CE after I ended my Kingmaker session. Later in the evening some friends asked for a round of Warframe. The next day I had a ban till 203X. Contacted the support and got unbanned immediately and got, in a sense, my first "strike". The second strike would be the end of my account.

I got the same answer in my conversation like what a mod on the forum wrote "As an aside, running any sort of third party program that can access and edit active memory (such as Squalr, MemEditor, Cheat Engine or other applications that allow accessing and overwriting active memory in use by other programs) can trigger the anti-cheat system. Even if the application is running in the background and you're not using it on Warframe, simply having it running can trigger the anti-cheat."

Not arguing with the ban itself, they have it in their EULA/TOS or what it is called, but with the severity. Sure, the first offense has near to no consequences, but the second is harsh, e.g. permaban. I would rather favor a shorter ban, like a few weeks or even months without the perma ban of ones account (e.g. you could get more timed bans, but wouldn'T loose your acount).

Why? Because I tend to look out for such things and it still happened to me, after ~3 years and a thousand something somethings hours in Warframe. Could happen again 3 or more years down the line, and then bye bye account for good. Havent played Warframe since then, that was about half a year ago.

At one time the launcher would warn you, if you had CE running, DE removed this warning... never got an answer why they did it.

Well, of course you could say to simply not use CE, fair point. But I use it a LOT to speed up games, like playing Grim Dawn at 1.5 times the normal speed or Star Renegades at 2 times the normal speed. So I made a decision to not play Warframe anymore till 1) DE changes the handling of the consequnces of CE detection [e.g. running CE without using it on Warframe] or 2) I have a second rig specifically for Warframe and Warframe only.

Ah, and as a tidbit. The support knows that I didn't cheat in Warframe with CE, the support itself told me so and that that was the reason they unbanned me. So DE seems to be well aware of how far the tempering with CE goes.

And on a sidenote, I play WoW from time to time, so I contacted their support too, to get an answer how they handle such situations (their EULA/TOS is quite similar). Well, they are not a fan of CE, but as long as it is only running and not doing something to WoW, it should be fine. I was even told by the GM that, if I should ever get a ban in WoW, because CE was still running, I should contact them, because that should not happen and that they would unban me (Their words, not mine. They took a bit of time to answer me, but the answer came from a "specialized GM", at least that what he wrote me).

 

@ DE  please overthink your stance on your rection to the detection of running any sort of third party program that can access and/or edit active memory

 

[deothor]

On 2020-09-28 at 9:11 AM, KIREEK said:

The issue is that you would know exactly what triggers it and DE doesn't want you to make a list of what works and what doesn't, they simply wait for you to slip.

In all honesty those proffesional cheater/hackers that make 3rd party programs can "easily" sidestep the issue of having multiple accounts and see which one doesnt get banned.

All this crap does is mostly punishing folks that were victim of using wrong program in a wrong time.

[Hobie-wan]

4 hours ago, deothor said:

All this crap does is mostly punishing folks that were victim of using wrong program in a wrong time.

Obviously this is nowhere as severe as parachuting out of an airplane or owning a gun in a household with small children, but pay attention when you're doing something risky. If they chose to download and use some cheat program, they aren't a 'victim'.

For every person that wasn't planning on cheating in WF and only uses it to tinker in single player stuff, there will be many more that fully intend to screw others over and make themselves look better than they are so they can gloat and claim it was a mistake. Those kinds of people aren't sorry, they're sorry they got caught.

[Martyriel]

I understand your reasoning, but I'd like to add something to it. The DE Support told me, that they are fully capable to determine if CE was used on/against Warframe e.g. if it was simply running or used to edit or trying to edit something in Warframe (therefore only my "first strike"). And that this wasn't specifically for trying to cheat or something like that, but for using (e.g. having running/active) a software with the capability to edit memory (e.g. such as Squalr, MemEditor, Cheat Engine or other applications that allow accessing and overwriting active memory in use by other programs).

I'm not arguing against the ban itself, I'm arguing against DEs handling of it. Of course they can ban me for 15 years, if they want, that's their option and stated in the EULA (not explicitly 15 years, but that they can take pretty much any action they like, like a permaban). But I think the proportionality is off, because the first warning doesn't expire and the second strike locks your account (well till 2035), even when they know that no tempering or attempt at tempering took place (the support told me, that if tampering or attempts at it had taken place, the ban wouldn't have been lifted). It's because of having open a programm with the capability to alter memory. Again, they can do that, but I still think 15 years for that is too much, a few weeks or even months for every violation would suffice (always on the assumption that the player didn't cheat or tried to cheat, but had such a programm simply running).

As for me, I'm not sorry I got caught, I have to admit, I don't even feel caught (from my view I didn't cheat, I violated the EULA, if that makes sense), more annoyed about the consequences down the line, e.g. what could happen, if Warframe would detect CE or other memory editing software because a) I forgot to close it again or b) because there is no list of forbidden memory editing software and there is a lot of software out there to do such things and not all of it has the lable "cheat" on it, so I could get banned for some other software, where I'm not even aware of it's capabilities. Hence, I'm not playing Warframe anymore till 1) DE changes the handling of the consequnces of CE detection [e.g. running CE without using it on Warframe] or 2) I have a second rig specifically for Warframe and Warframe only.

So I would really like DE to change their view on the length of the ban and maybe to bring back the launcher warning... that DE removed, for whatever reason...