Revenant QoL; make it so Mesmer Skin no longer gimps Danse Macabre's effectiveness.

[TheGodofWiFi]

31 minutes ago, nslay said:

Vex Armor is not an example of reflected/returned enemy damage scaling better. Vex Armor directly increases your output damage and armor as a function of damage to your health and shields... not enemies doing useful quantities of damage that could efficiently kill other enemies.

Do you actually know what Danse Macabre is? Its not enemies directly doing damage to other enemies through a Shield of Shadows style mechanic, its enemies damaging you which in turn increases your damage output on Danse.

So yes Vex Armour is a good example as it is the same concept of enemies increasing your damage output by shooting/hitting you. Danse does not directly reflect the enemies damage back at them, it adds the damage they do to the damage Danse does. Nothing to do with enemies directly damaging each other like they do when Enthralled.

31 minutes ago, nslay said:

show that enemy damage really isn’t all that great by itself.

I agree that trying to using enemies to damage other enemies is pointless as their damage is not great, but as I just said that doesn’t matter as Danse does not redirect the enemies damage to you onto other enemies like how Shield of Shadows does.

It increases your fourth ability Danse’s damage output with scaling damage and since Danse has adaptive damage as well, it makes it even more hard hitting.

[nslay]

2 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Do you actually know what Danse Macabre is? Its not enemies directly doing damage to other enemies through a Shield of Shadows style mechanic, its enemies damaging you which in turn increases your damage output on Danse.

So yes Vex Armour is a good example as it is the same concept of enemies increasing your damage output by shooting/hitting you. Danse does not directly reflect the enemies damage back at them, it adds the damage they do to the damage Danse does. Nothing to do with enemies directly damaging each other like they do when Enthralled.

Danse Macabre absorbs the damage done by the enemies and deals that damage back out through Danse Macabre. This is not the same as a percentage increase in base damage as a function of damage to your health and shields like Vex Armor... instead, this Danse Macabre synergy is using damage from enemies against the enemies.

Quote

While active, all damage received by Revenant is stored into a total damage pool, then gradually transferred to each energy beam as additional damage per second.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Danse_Macabre

But Resonator/Mallet are almost a perfect match! Because they do roughly that... only they work a lot better than Danse Macabre.

Here's Mallet

Quote

The Mallet is an invulnerable hovering orb that continuously plays percussive music, attracting enemies in sight to attack it while absorbing all enemy damage hitting its energy mass. Damage absorbed is accumulated and stored briefly before diminishing over time. Stored damage is converted into Blast damage, multiplied by 1x / 1.5x / 2x / 2.5x, and rhythmically dealt to all enemies within a radius of 5 / 6 / 8 / 10 meters from the Mallet.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Mallet

Now when you combine Mallet with Resonator... Resonator attracts all the hostile attention from enemies. And they're all now attacking the very thing that will collect their damage and deal it back out to them.

Anyway, these are directly comparable abilities... they both store up enemy damage and deal the enemy damage back to enemies. Vex Armor is only superficially similar in that you take damage and get a buff. But that buff is a direct increase in your damage %... enemy damage just needs to be enough to strip away your shields and hit your health and that's it. You do the damage yourself. You don't return the enemy damage to enemies.

[TheGodofWiFi]

41 minutes ago, nslay said:

Danse Macabre absorbs the damage done by the enemies and deals that damage back out through Danse Macabre.

Exactly. So its not a Shield of Shadows type of deal as the enemy damage increases Danse’s damage.

41 minutes ago, nslay said:

This is not the same as a percentage increase in base damage as a function of damage to your health and shields like Vex Armor

I never said it was...

I said it was similar in the concept of using enemy damage to boost your damage. I didn’t say they did it the exact same way.

Why are you even arguing about this? You’re splitting hairs.

41 minutes ago, nslay said:

Anyway, these are directly comparable abilities... they both store up enemy damage and deal the enemy damage back to enemies. Vex Armor is only superficially similar

Yes I know that functionally Mallet is more similar to Danse than Vex Armour, but I was never arguing direct functionality. I said they all share the theme of using enemy damage as a way to boost YOUR damage output against them either by directly giving you a % boost or by directly affecting the damage numbers with their damage numbers. 

Seriously, you really are arguing over split hairs here, when I never even said Vex Armour and Danse function the same way.

Let it go, its really not a big deal and its not the main topic of discussion anyway.

[nslay]

As an alternative way to exploiting this synergy... we could follow Octavia's theme and use our Thralls the way Resonator works

Change Danse Macabre to have this Enthrall synergy instead:

• Thralls are immune to Danse Macabre (Thralls currently leave pillars that explode and leave overshield pickups)

Then change the synergy to:

• While active, all damage received by Revenant and Thralls is stored into a total damage pool, then gradually transferred to each energy beam as additional damage per second.

 

Though, that eliminates overshield pickups as a potential build focus (not that anyone has come up with one yet). Then you will inevitably get complaints that team members can kill the Thralls. One neat way to use Enthrall is to pacify dangerous enemies that everyone can gun down together... making Thralls invulnerable to team mates removes this usage.

Your invulnerability idea seems less intrusive.

 

Out of curiosity, have you tried building Revenant for 4's synergy? Basically it would be a Revenant that does NOT use Mesmer Skin and uses survivability mods like Adaptation instead. Then you could directly exploit Danse Macabre's synergy as well as find good use for the cheaper Reave (heals Revenant) ... and maybe Enthrall to a lesser extent (overshield pickups). I'd like to try this kind of build, but I don't have Adaptation yet!

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

...Damage that triggers mesmer skin already rolls into the calculation for Danse.  Are you suggesting that because skin stuns enemies he's not doing as much damage as he could be?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

On 2020-10-03 at 9:58 PM, (XB1)Knight Raime said:

...Damage that triggers mesmer skin already rolls into the calculation for Danse.  Are you suggesting that because skin stuns enemies he's not doing as much damage as he could be?

It’s what I’ve been saying for years.

[Kaiune]

With out the stun you only get so many charges of MS any way. Also testing with invulnerability on is not really a test more than a look what i could do if the game allowed for cheats. You take away MS on revenant you would die fairly quick or the whole way you build him would need to change. ATM most players probably have very little in the way of survivability mods outside of rolling guard as you have MS and over shields if you play him to his design.  

You may want to look into making a helminth build with defy or just playing wuknong if thats the gameplay loop your looking for.