Proposed Zephyr Rework

[-LOF-.XinesMC]

Introduction:

Zephyr is a frame which is fine, however her kit has aged quite a bit since launch. That is why I am proposing some changes which will allow Zephyr to become more interactive, and allows for more synergy between abilities in her kit.

 

Passive:
 

Spoiler

• Keeps glide fall
• Being in the air gives you the following buffs:
  • Staying in the air for prolonged periods grants an increasing Ability Range (up to 15% extra).
  • It also grants a flat Air Glide Speed buff (30% Air glide speed buff).
    • Note: This only affects you in the air and synergises with the change shown in her 1.

1st Ability:
 

Spoiler

• Remove ragdoll when dashing through enemies.
  • Instead, shortly stun them (2 seconds. Doesn't scale with Duration)
• HOLDING the ablity will allow you to boost into the air and float (which is currently implemented).
  • However, this will now allow you to move in the air, which synergises with your 30% Air Glide buff your passive offers, therefore increasing the speed at which you're floating.

 

2nd Ability:
 

Spoiler

• Push feature will be removed as is it does not have useful functionality in the game right now.
• Pull will now instead have a mini-vortex (similar to Vauban)
  • This vortex will be casted from the character (like Breach Surge) and will pull enemies towards your place.
    • Note: If you are in the air using your 1, the enemies will be pulled below your current location.

3rd Ability:
 

Spoiler

• Turbulence is fine how it is right now, I would probably make it Recastable.

4th Ability:
 

Spoiler

Tornadoes now share their damage types. Shooting one tornado will have its damage type (and value) shared across all of the active tornadoes.

Synergy Note: Air Burst will still be able to increase tornado size.

 

Tap:

• Tapping the ability will create tornadoes that target enemies, but prioritise staying within your vicinity. Currently, the tornadoes go wherever they please making it unreliable at CC and Damage Dealing.

 

Hold:

• Holding the ability will create Tornadoes on the spot you have selected.
  • Note: If your tornadoes have already been cast they will be replaced with the new ones.

 

 

[BiancaRoughfin]

4 hours ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

Introduction:

Zephyr is a frame which is fine, however her kit has aged quite a bit since launch. That is why I am proposing some changes which will allow Zephyr to become more interactive, and allows for more synergy between abilities in her kit.

Zephyr is already a very interactive frame if you know how to properly use her abilities.

4 hours ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

Passive:

• Keeps glide fall
• Being in the air gives you the following buffs:
  • Staying in the air for prolonged periods grants an increasing Ability Range (up to 15% extra).
  • It also grants a flat Air Glide Speed buff (30% Air glide speed buff).
    • Note: This only affects you in the air and synergises with the change shown in her 1.

I think you ment Slow Fall/Lightness.

She already has increased AirGlide time and her current passive is better as it reduces Energy cost of abilities wile Airborn.

4 hours ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

1st Ability:

• Remove ragdoll when dashing through enemies.
  • Instead, shortly stun them (2 seconds. Doesn't scale with Duration)
• HOLDING the ablity will allow you to boost into the air and float (which is currently implemented).
  • However, this will now allow you to move in the air, which synergises with your 30% Air Glide buff your passive offers, therefore increasing the speed at which you're floating.

Tailwind doesnt Ragdoll enemies, it knocks them down.

I would prefer Charging her 1st ability to fill up a gauge that gave her temporary flight abilities, the more and faster you move, the faster the gauge drains.

4 hours ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

2nd Ability:

• Push feature will be removed as is it does not have useful functionality in the game right now.
• Pull will now instead have a mini-vortex (similar to Vauban)
  • This vortex will be casted from the character (like Breach Surge) and will pull enemies towards your place.
    • Note: If you are in the air using your 1, the enemies will be pulled below your current location.

Her 2nd's ability to Push is not useless, if you know when and how to use it, you can take it to your advantage to remove heavier enemies out of the way or take advantage of pits/tight spots to kill enemies.

4 hours ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

3rd Ability:

Turbulence is fine how it is right now, I would probably make it Recastable.

Unnecessary, i prefer she could cast Turbulence wile walking/running. I usually jump and airglide in the direction i was moving when i have to use this skill.

4 hours ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

4th Ability:

Tornadoes now share their damage types. Shooting one tornado will have its damage type (and value) shared across all of the active tornadoes.

Synergy Note: Air Burst will still be able to increase tornado size.

 

Tap:

• Tapping the ability will create tornadoes that target enemies, but prioritise staying within your vicinity. Currently, the tornadoes go wherever they please making it unreliable at CC and Damage Dealing.

 

Hold:

• Holding the ability will create Tornadoes on the spot you have selected.
  • Note: If your tornadoes have already been cast they will be replaced with the new ones.

 

Not very useful as each one could have a different element proced onto them and apply them together when they stack in a group of enemies.

Tornados already Target enemies, they slowly seek them out and pick them up, once the target enemy is pickup they move to the next carrying the ones they already have.

Tornados are already casted where you are aiming and casting them again already replaces currently active ones so the Hold function you proposed would bring no changes.

I would prefer the Press remain as is but the Hold function casted a single Large tornado at the targeted location that sucks enemies.

Just curious but whats your Zephyr usage %?

[-LOF-.XinesMC]

5 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Zephyr is already a very interactive frame if you know how to properly use her abilities.

I never said she wasn't interactive but as of right now none of her abilities synergise with one another, she is buggy and really boring to play.

5 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I think you ment Slow Fall/Lightness.

She already has increased AirGlide time and her current passive is better as it reduces Energy cost of abilities wile Airborn.

I am certain you ignored everything I put here. Yes, I know zephyrs current passive, and I know how she works. But I am saying to increase the speed in which she moves in the air, as well as ability range would could synergise nicely with her range oriented kit. Please re-read my section. 🤦‍♂️

5 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Tailwind doesnt Ragdoll enemies, it knocks them down.

I would prefer Charging her 1st ability to fill up a gauge that gave her temporary flight abilities, the more and faster you move, the faster the gauge drains.

Tailwind does ragdoll enemies if you have tried it, even if it just only knocks them down, it's tedious and useless as of rn. Adding some type of stun which has a guaranteed duration makes this a bit more reliable

Charging the 1 to allow flight doesn't make much sense to me, as Zephyr's gameplay is not similar to say, Titania. I'd say Zephyrs charge needs to be a hover [Which with her passive would allow her to move at a decent speed], therefore making Zephyr a frame which should be in the air, casing abilities constantly.

5 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Her 2nd's ability to Push is not useless, if you know when and how to use it, you can take it to your advantage to remove heavier enemies out of the way or take advantage of pits/tight spots to kill enemies.

Push is not useless, no, but it's not useful either. Heavier targets are easily dealt with by weapons, especially in casual, and if you're doing endurance, your melee makes quick work of them. Warframe is a game where pushing enemies away from you isn't ideal and it's better to pull them in as a CC, which would allow for the same effect. Push is just a bit, boring and useless to me. I prefer my vortex idea.

 

5 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Unnecessary, i prefer she could cast Turbulence wile walking/running. I usually jump and airglide in the direction i was moving when i have to use this skill.

I do the same, thats why I said "Maybe" could be recastable. It's a debatable thing which could easily be agreed/disagreed.

 

5 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Not very useful as each one could have a different element proced onto them and apply them together when they stack in a group of enemies.

Tornados already Target enemies, they slowly seek them out and pick them up, once the target enemy is pickup they move to the next carrying the ones they already have.

Tornados are already casted where you are aiming and casting them again already replaces currently active ones so the Hold function you proposed would bring no changes.

As of right now weapons do a better job at damage dealing with the tornados. And the tornados are unreliable CC. This makes them a bad ability to use overall and one I instantly replaced with Helminth.

Tornados definitely target enemies, but it's extreme slow, and the pickup radius, and mechanic as a whole is buggy.

No one puts a different element on each tornado due to the fact Electricity/Heat/Toxin are always preferred, therefore being used on them all, making one tornado apply to them all would allow for a bit less tedious gameplay.

"Tornados are already casted where you are aiming and casting them again already replaces currently active ones so the Hold function you proposed would bring no changes."

You are right in this, I'm saying HOLDING tornados will force them to STAY not move AT ALL, in the location you put. Meaning you could put it in a choke point for damage, or a defence target for easy CC...

 

5 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I would prefer the Press remain as is but the Hold function casted a single Large tornado at the targeted location that sucks enemies.

This one could very well do, but all it is, is my hold feature but replace multiple tornados with one...

 

5 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

Just curious but whats your Zephyr usage %?

Why does this have anything to do with why I play Zephyr and think she needs a change? I have about 100-120hours with her. No not alot, however, she's kinda stale right now and not amazing at anything, and barely a jack of all traits

[lnfine]

I have 2 problems with Zephyr.

1) Pull is too anemic, especially for a hold-to-cast ability. The end result of casting pull should be affected enemies actually ending up where you want to pull them, not enemies gently falling into a general direction of the pull. Either like Void Singularity or like Larva (only without persistence).

2) Tornadoes have pet AI.

[-LOF-.XinesMC]

Just now, lnfine said:

I have 2 problems with Zephyr.

1) Pull is too anemic, especially for a hold-to-cast ability. The end result of casting pull should be affected enemies actually ending up where you want to pull them, not enemies gently falling into a general direction of the pull. Either like Void Singularity or like Larva (only without persistence).

2) Tornadoes have pet AI.

I just want Zephyr to be interactive, fun and powerful.. Pull is bad, the 1 has no synergy, the passive is eh ok I guess, the 4 is horrendous

[BiancaRoughfin]

7 hours ago, -LOF-.XinesMC said:

Why does this have anything to do with why I play Zephyr and think she needs a change? I have about 100-120hours with her. No not alot, however, she's kinda stale right now and not amazing at anything, and barely a jack of all traits

I main her since 02/05/2014 when she came out, i use her for all mission types, i often carry teams and get irritated when people keep saying she is bad or show up on the forums proposing changes that change her from a Mobility/Support frame to a Damage dealer.
When her 1st rework was about to come out and i knew they would merge her 2 into her 1 i knew they would have to add some new skill to fill in that gap. Airburst was one of the skills i proposed for utility despite the majority of players not knowing what that actually is, other people just wanted to turn her into a Slash Nuke.
Thats why i ask, i like knowing the people proposing changes to her actually play her to know how to use her. My view of FUN doesnt always coincide with other peoples.

[-LOF-.XinesMC]

2 hours ago, BiancaRoughfin said:

I main her since 02/05/2014 when she came out, i use her for all mission types, i often carry teams and get irritated when people keep saying she is bad or show up on the forums proposing changes that change her from a Mobility/Support frame to a Damage dealer.

Well this is definitely not me. I am asking for Zephyr to have an entire buff, which will have a playstyle based around Mobility, DPS and Defence. Zephyr rn and probs ever will not be a support

[Birdframe_Prime]

You irritated the Bianca... you shouldn't-a did that...

That said, I'm more against you than for you.

Your ideas appear to have a general desire to improve the frame, but lack the actual reading to back them up. There's been hundreds of threads on the forums over time, and posting anything Zephyr related is bound to get either me or Bianca in on the thing in very short order. Over the years, the ideas for Zephyr have spread, multiplied, been iterated on, polarised discussions over and over...

So.

You're coming into something that's been so long in discussion that you're going to get reactions from people who don't have time for them.

One thing you've not done, quite a key mistake, is look at what Zephyr does, in mechanical depth, and how those things are relevant to the game itself. If you had, you would see that what Zephyr needs the most is consistency. Reliability.

Jetting hundreds of yards over your target, ramming into scenery, momentum never letting you fall, and absolutely no functional reason to ever, ever use Hover in its current form, plus the incredibly bad scaling and usage of Dive Bomb, make her 1 an incredibly unreliable tool for mobility.

The fact that Airburst ragdolls, at all, is unreliable, and you've noted that with an idea to improve it, but not a very well thought-out version.

Turbulence is not fine as-is, and has several holes in its performance that need to be patched up, such as particles, thrown melee and negative range issues. Even something as simple as a non-timer-based way to tell when it's ending.

And Tornado... yeah, consistency is needed. Such as not keeping that ridiculous non-function of making Tornado taller when you cast 2 at it. If there's something to happen between 2 and 4, why not have the funnels, if active, path quickly to where Airburst impacts, capturing enemies reliably. Maybe taking enemies affected by Airburst and holding them for an actual duration instead of the way they can fall out when the funnel changes direction.

There's so much that can be explored with the mechanics Zephyr has, and you've kind of... not explored them at all.

I mean... some of the ideas have the beginnings of potential...

But you'll need to do a second, maybe third draft of this.

[Robolaser]

Zephyr is quite a versatile frame. She can protect herself, objectives and teammates from gunfire, has great mobility, decent crowd control... and yes, she can even deal ridiculous damage too. Also i like that various builds are totally viable with 2-3 slots left for QoL mods and augments. She's unique and overall well balanced imo.

There is still room for improvement though.

 

1st ability:

- please instantly remove all momentum from Tail Wind's air dash when we hit an obstacle frontally. It's currently annoying (and looks silly) to keep pushing against a wall for a second or two. That would also make transition to wall latch/dash easier. Allow us to automatically transition to wall latch/dash if we hold RMB/jump key before impact.

- conversely, give (further?) reduced friction at low angles, so that we can keep momentum after landing or hitting something from the side. I'd like smooth transition to sprinting instead of current "landing->full stop->sprint". Allow us to hold sprint key before landing.

- shorten or remove the delay before we can interrupt air dash with another air dash.

- increase "Hover Jump" duration a bit, and make it scale with ability duration (height would then scale with charge only). Or allow us to recast it. And/or, reset it's duration after using air dash maybe? Like "hover->air dash->hover->air dash->etc".  Hover jump is way too short currently imo, and the lack of combos with air dash is a bit frustrating.

- as suggested by OP, allow horizontal movement while airborne after "hover jump", BUT at very slow speed. That would be enough for small adjustements, without making her another Titania.

 

2nd:

- Airburst is currently ok imo, in the context of Zephyr's kit. Though i rarely use it to push enemies, it's always nice to have options.  As a subsumed ability however, it's not that great admitedly.

- i don't think it should keep pulling like a vortex either (as suggested by OP), unless maybe for an extremely short duration like 2 sec.

 

3rd:

- just perfect, no need to change anything. Allowing to recast it (as suggested by OP and others before) would make her permanently invulnerable to ranged weapons, which sounds boring to me. I like the short burst of adrenaline when Turbulence ends at the worst possible moment :D. Rolling Guard and shield gating already give more than enough additional safety.

 

4th:

- please allow the tornadoes to be infused with Void damage/status from weapons via subsumed Xata's Whisper! It currently doesn't work at all, that was very disappointing :(

- after casting, i'd like to be able to direct ALL tornadoes to a designated point, instead of just the closest one currently. Maybe with slightly higher movement speed.

- i think being able to cast stationary tornado(es), as suggested by OP, would be too powerful/convenient and would just make it another generic, guaranteed CC. I like how they can be a bit unpredictable, and move on their own. Optionally, the augment makes their spawn locations much more predictable thanks to the halved range, while still retaining some CC capability (especially with electric procs for example) on top of giving potentially crazy damage boosts.