The Illusion Of Choice

[Manelag]

Choice,

such a big and normally meaningful word, but this event really flushes this down the toilet.

But let me explain, this event gives us a pseudo 'choice' of two sides by which we are once again bribed by with Battle Pay rewards,

The carrot on the stick just keeps on going and if that's not good enough for you here is this, you have to go with what the masses want - what you and your friends maybe want is meaningless. Personal Choice is removed.

 

Say you support Corpus because you want the Corpus Hand Cannon or the Vandal Prova, well guess what your Choice is utterly meaningless.

Why? Well let's start with the Battle Pay being in favor of the Grineer, call it RNG, Rigging or whatever, currently it's in the Grineer's favor and i'm okay with that.

But what i am not okay with is that i can't still work towards atleast getting my Corpus Hand Cannon BP, at least that would be cool.

People don't want to have their choices dictated by, that's why we love choice because we can choose what we want, not what the biggest party wants.

 

Don't get me wrong this is how Democracy works and i am in favor of this.

But your personal time that you invest doesn't seem to matter one bit in this event, no matter how much Corpus Missions you play in the end you get the Grineer Rewards? Why? Because that's how this event seems to work.

 

I personally don't want my Reward be dictated by other people, i want to determine MY reward, they can determine THEIR reward, that in my opinion would be perfect.

But we aren't getting this.

So i'm gonna suck it up, keep playing my Corpus Mission and just hope for the best.

 

So that's it, not really hating on DE just expressing my feelings about this Choice thing.

Overall the Event is Fun, but poorly executed like most other Events with mass Confusion and of course Protest.

Anyway, have fun out there guys.

 

 

TL;DR - We want personal choice, not choice dictated by the masses.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Manelag

[NIL0S]

Well yeah, the illusion of choice, if there is one, is a rather poor one. Zero agency given to the individual player (except maybe for the faction badge reward), it's all one colossal grind, and if you stick to one faction alone, worse for you.

[-DM-Nexriot]

rigged event is rigged. corpus its not an option, the grineer are snowballing, the people is scared about loose the weapon+slot+tater. The work on DE hq its done, "choose a side" its been a fake since the start of the event, its like choose what do you like but in the other side they have shiny taters, and in your side have 100k credits youre free to choose,sure "free"

[Phoenix86]

this event is for the masses.

[Manelag]

Well yeah, the illusion of choice, if there is one, is a rather poor one. Zero agency given to the individual player (except maybe for the faction badge reward), it's all one colossal grind, and if you stick to one faction alone, worse for you.

 

Then again we have to ask, is there any way to make a Event not that colossal Grind? I don't think there is one at the moment with the Modes Provided and people seems to enjoy the grindy-ness.

 

this event is for the masses.

 

Pretty much.

[BadAimbot]

It's not about winning or losing. It's about standing up for what you believe in. I believe in the Detron. I will give up all my rewards for the Detron, for if I do not, who else will? The Detron is the real winning side, regardless of whether they're victorious or not. You have to be willing to do what's right, not what's going to win.

[Manelag]

It's not about winning or losing. It's about standing up for what you believe in. I believe in the Detron. I will give up all my rewards for the Detron, for if I do not, who else will? The Detron is the real winning side, regardless of whether they're victorious or not. You have to be willing to do what's right, not what's going to win.

 

A little poetic but i like it, stand tall there my Corpus Brother in Arms.

[tigrex]

It's not about winning or losing. It's about standing up for what you believe in. I believe in the Detron. I will give up all my rewards for the Detron, for if I do not, who else will? The Detron is the real winning side, regardless of whether they're victorious or not. You have to be willing to do what's right, not what's going to win.

Sadly most believe in "better loot" 

[Sophista]

 that's why we love choice because we can choose what we want, not what the biggest party wants.

 

Don't get me wrong this is how Democracy works and i am in favor of this.

Youre wrong. bigger party wins in democracy.

You can choose whatever you want, but that does not mean every1 will want that.

[Manelag]

Youre wrong. bigger party wins in democracy.

You can choose whatever you want, but that does not mean every1 will want that.

 

What i meant by that is that we can choice what we want, regardless of what the bigger party wants.

Example. I can still choose to drink Soda even though the bigger party wants to drink Lemonade.

 

Thats why i paragraphed those 2 Statements, they aren't in direct context to each other, hope this makes it a littler clearer.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Manelag

[Dab117]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but... Aren't there enough threads dedicated solely to whining about this event?

 

The first operation was the Grineer foothold in to the Mars node cluster. If the Corpus had won that match, the event would be over. Done with. Additionally, the first one was over extremely fast, meaning that it was meant to be an introduction to the game type. It's a week long event, yet people have done nothing but whine during the first 24 hours.

 

I believe the Corpus will get backed in to a corner, then start offering awesome rewards. The Grineer, meanwhile, will get arrogant and tone down the quality of their stuff. Then, the corpus will go on the offensive. Perhaps the war will spread to Sedna, since both Mars and Sedna were mentioned in the messages leading up to the event. Who knows what they have planned, but I sure as hell know that it's not going to be a one sided Corpus Barbecue the entire event. (Get it? Barbecue. Napalms. hah.)

 

DE put more than 5 seconds of thought in to this and players inability to do the same is just sad. Warframe is a video game. It's supposed to be fun. If you're not enjoying it, then why not play something else for a bit?

[Bibliothekar]

Say you support Corpus because you want the Corpus Hand Cannon or the Vandal Prova, well guess what your Choice is utterly meaningless.

Why? [...]

But what i am not okay with is that i can't still work towards atleast getting my Corpus Hand Cannon BP, at least that would be cool.

People don't want to have their choices dictated by, that's why we love choice because we can choose what we want, not what the biggest party wants.

Yes, that's where they really messed up the overall rewards. I'm fighting for Corpus because

a) they are the easier long-term enemies (remember, we'll have to fight whoever wins this war afterwards, whenever we're doing one of those missions)

b) I really like the design of the Dentron.

But I probably won't get it and instead a BP of that stupid Grineer gun. Blergh ...

[Zhoyzu]

It's not about winning or losing. It's about standing up for what you believe in. I believe in the Detron. I will give up all my rewards for the Detron, for if I do not, who else will? The Detron is the real winning side, regardless of whether they're victorious or not. You have to be willing to do what's right, not what's going to win.

you believe in a reward which is a meaningless standpoint. if anything it paints you shallow.

 

The idea would be to not show rewards or have the battle pay rigging so that the event would actually have been fun and interesting. That would have created a stronger illusion of choice even if the rewards were handed out the same way. hiding the rewards would have promoted a more personal choice aspect based upon ones own morals and thought processes.

 

Instead we are left with a terrible event that was rigged from the start which in turn completely rendered the whole event pointless and a waste of time.

 

At this point im curious if the community will even actually finish the event because of such a poor execution on DE's part. From what i've been seeing and reading most people are just going to get their run count and quit because the rigged event has become droll and unbearable after the 100 runs.

[Manelag]

Who knows what they have planned, but I sure as hell know that it's not going to be a one sided Corpus Barbecue the entire event. (Get it? Barbecue. Napalms. hah.)

 

DE put more than 5 seconds of thought in to this and players inability to do the same is just sad. Warframe is a video game. It's supposed to be fun. If you're not enjoying it, then why not play something else for a bit?

 

Hah! I see what you did there. You Clever Fox, you.

But no i'm not really whining in the sense of "Oh my god i have to play 100 missions to get stuff, grinding, omg rewards, etc."

I'm rather just expressing myself about the choice in here, because i am rather sensitive to things of that nature.

Also, not sure if you noticed but i stated that i have fun with this event, even if its grindy like previous ones.

 

But thank you for this rather constructive response that doesn't include swears or calling the OP a $&*#^%.

[Dreed]

Game is for masses not for personal choice... simple and painfull.. get group, get clan, get alliance and go... conquer the solar system... nothin less nothing more.

 

Situation where not many Players what support Grineer make big and great def on one of the map.. why ppl support corpus so much:

1. Orokin Cata. - for weapon

2. Preffer 100k credits than 3 mutagens :/

etc.

 

and thats it... not many players in not many guild keep fighting on one side.. they just want to get proper and "better" reward at single mission.

 

 

More welcome will be when DEV team will block changing side... u can choose at 1st mission and thats it.. u can chenge it only on other mission but ur will loose all scoore what u get supporting difrent faction ! maybe this will do something will ppl what changing side all the time ;/

[Zhoyzu]

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but... Aren't there enough threads dedicated solely to whining about this event?

 

The first operation was the Grineer foothold in to the Mars node cluster. If the Corpus had won that match, the event would be over. Done with. Additionally, the first one was over extremely fast, meaning that it was meant to be an introduction to the game type. It's a week long event, yet people have done nothing but whine during the first 24 hours.

 

I believe the Corpus will get backed in to a corner, then start offering awesome rewards. The Grineer, meanwhile, will get arrogant and tone down the quality of their stuff. Then, the corpus will go on the offensive. Perhaps the war will spread to Sedna, since both Mars and Sedna were mentioned in the messages leading up to the event. Who knows what they have planned, but I sure as hell know that it's not going to be a one sided Corpus Barbecue the entire event. (Get it? Barbecue. Napalms. hah.)

 

DE put more than 5 seconds of thought in to this and players inability to do the same is just sad. Warframe is a video game. It's supposed to be fun. If you're not enjoying it, then why not play something else for a bit?

you havent been around very long and its apparent in your choice of words and opinion of the event. Several times they have stated week long event. guess what the community finished almost 4 days ahead of schedule. If DE had put more then % seconds of thought they would have realized that battle pay was possibly the worst thing they could have done.

 

The event is essentially rigged because the masses are incapable of making a choice based on the spirit of the event. this REMOVES the entire aspect of fun as the shortsightedness of the masses are only after the battle pay rewards. The system is broken and we have to deal with it until wednesday.

 

And don't go around saying people are whining. in a few months or sooner you'll hop on the bandwagon as well because DE is a good team but they learn just a bit to slow and they struggle with grasping the scope of their actions with a player base of this size. They are improving and progressing in leaps and bounds which is fantastic but with the events usually they skip an important aspect or idea and it almost completely ruins the events.

[ZombieX13]

I used to play Command and Conquer Red Alert 2 online and they had a similar event called World Domination but it worked better than this for a couple reasons:

 

1. No Battlepay incentive tainting the balance. You fought for the side you liked the best. It was ideological.

2. It was PVP - it demanded victory, not simply a higher number of players. You cannot possibly fail these event missions so it comes down to Moon Clans deciding which side will win.

3. The goal reward a secret. Not knowing what you're getting for Christmas keeps the anticipation up.

 

DE ruined Christmas and the Moons are making individuals irrelevant.

[bejuizb]

^ Nuff said. I tried to stick with the corpus, but 20 minutes per mission drained a lot of fun and time for me. Having to wade through a dozen Napalms at once with a Loki has to be the crappiest way to support a faction ever. The rewards seem to be part of a plan. I'm thinking along the lines of:

The Grineer advance deep into Mars, with a few Corpus nodes still active. Then the corpus flank the Grineer and keep their attention until the Zanuka project reaches completion.

/discuss

[ZombieX13]

^ Nuff said. I tried to stick with the corpus, but 20 minutes per mission drained a lot of fun and time for me. Having to wade through a dozen Napalms at once with a Loki has to be the crappiest way to support a faction ever. The rewards seem to be part of a plan. I'm thinking along the lines of:

The Grineer advance deep into Mars, with a few Corpus nodes still active. Then the corpus flank the Grineer and keep their attention until the Zanuka project reaches completion.

/discuss

I like pizza. I like to see the monkeys at the zoo.

[Archon357]

Youre wrong. bigger party wins in democracy.

You can choose whatever you want, but that does not mean every1 will want that.

Yesh, the bigger party wins. Therefore, "democracy" can easily be defined as "6 idiots telling the 5 smart people what to do". And there's always more idiots around.

 

DE put more than 5 seconds of thought in to this and players inability to do the same is just sad. Warframe is a video game. It's supposed to be fun. If you're not enjoying it, then why not play something else for a bit?

The fact that the loser gets the lesser version of the winners prize shows that either they didn't put that much thought into it or just want to rub in the "loss" that you personally, as an individual player, had absolutely no sway over and is in almost no way your fault in the first place.

 

 

In the end, the idea of "choice" in this event is second to none. Your choice doesn't matter. It's the moon clans that matter. Especially the ones competing for the stupid trophies.

Also, I bet that even the choices of those clans won't matter after a while when DE decides to mix things up and throws in some other random bullS#&$ to herd us around even more and smack in our faces the fact we have no agency whatsoever in any regard. The resulting "story" might actually turn out to be good (which I highly doubt), but it will always ring hollow knowing that they decided what will happen even before we were given the... "choice".

 

And furthermore, the entire "dilemma" is based on some very, very shoddy writing that locks you into a binary choice. The fact that you can choose means that you have autonomy - as it says "The Lotus is your guide but not your conscience". So what exactly prevents me from gathering up fellow Tenno I trust and using this idiotic "war" as a distraction to, yknow, actually rescue the cryopods myself.

BullS#&$.

 

While it might arguably be the best event so far, it's just really, really stupid.

[Starmachine24]

im just going to say that im going with the events spirit. I just saw a catalyst yesterday that was on the corpus side of the battle but i still sticked with the grineer for thats whom i fight for.

 

Besides i think its more fun if you just play the event on the side you choose from the start like me and my friends did, we choose grineer even before the rewards was shown.

 

LONG LIVE THE TENNO AND GRINEER NAPALMS (when napalms are allies and not enemies xD)

[Vorigan]

Already accepting the loss, but still fighting for the Corpus. I'm planning on going for 0 wins for Grineer's side.

I like Corpus, I like their rewards, I stick to my decisions, I support them.

 

Can't blame people going 50-50 and waiting to see the outcome in order to pick a side or those who fight only for the Battle Pay; it's what DE made them do anyway.

[xFrostKnightx]

Already accepting the loss, but still fighting for the Corpus. I'm planning on going for 0 wins for Grineer's side.

I like Corpus, I like their rewards, I stick to my decisions, I support them.

 

Can't blame people going 50-50 and waiting to see the outcome in order to pick a side or those who fight only for the Battle Pay; it's what DE made them do anyway.

0 win's for grineer as well, Can't wait for when the Grineer are done wiping their boots with corpus then then say " Well back to stopping the tenno the only force that can stop us *turns about and takes tenno in pods for themselfs*" All the supporters will be like, Da Fuq? B-but!

[Wiegraf]

What I don't get is the logic behind the losing side getting the winning side's gear. Sure, there could be reverse engineering involved but I would figured it would have gone more along those lines :

 

IF you are part of the winning side, you get your side's weapon directly to your inventory, made and potato'ed.

IF you are part of the losing side, you get your side's blueprints for both weapons.

 

Logic being : even if you lose, you'd at least get the losing faction's weapon, albeit with the need that you have to craft them whereas the winners get their own faction weapons already made and powered up. Pretty much means that if the Grinner won, the Grineer supporters would have gotten the Machete and the sidearm free while the Corpus supporters would have gotten the Prova and handcannong blueprints and vice versa.

 

However, since the victory decides which set people will get, it means that once the event comes close to an end or that enough nodes are captured, the losing side will just not bother to fight anymore which WILL make it a landslide victory, not accounting on faction choice. If they had gone instead with giving out the completed weapons of the victors' faction and the blueprints of the losers' faction instead, then everyone would keep fighting to the end just to make sure THEIR choice would come without need to craft their weapons.

[Vorigan]

0 win's for grineer as well, Can't wait for when the Grineer are done wiping their boots with corpus then then say " Well back to stopping the tenno the only force that can stop us *turns about and takes tenno in pods for themselfs*" All the supporters will be like, Da Fuq? B-but!

 

Yes and since they said they will be keeping the weapons of the losing side for future purposes, I think DE want Grineer to win this one in order to make us prepare for the next event of some sort.