Napalm Heavies. C'mon! Fix Them Already!

[Xylia]

DE removed them and then brought them back because troollool.

 

I was actually enjoying fighting Grineer until Arcadia came along.

 

Did one mission and I was like "uh, this sucks."

[KingFolstag]

I do think the fact that sometimes you catch fire even when your behind a closed door quite annoying. I usually use nyx to control them to turn them against there allies after which i kill him.

[WondahBoah]

This is one of the reasons why people won't support the Corpus -- they'd rather fight Moas and Crewmen that die in a few shots (Face it, Elite Crewmen and Techs are the only things Corpus has that are actually any dangerous and none of them involve any impossible-to-avoid AoE) than to fight overpowered crap that will kill you in seconds if you get CC'd/Stunned/Staggered by the million Grineer mobs that can do so.

 

How many CCs does Grineer have?

 

1). Shield Lancers who throw you into other mobs.

2). All Heavies have Radial Blast.

3). Rollers and their constant stagger.

4). Scorpions.

 

How many CCs do the Corpus have?

 

1). Shockwave MOA (these die in a couple shots from.... anything, really and they take 3 seconds to stomp, giving you plenty of time to kill it AND you can jump over the slowly-spreading shockwave)

 

2). Railgun MOA (these can shoot through Snowglobes and walls, sure.... but they hit a pinhole target and they have lousy accuracy if you're moving. Oh, and they die easy too).

 

.......and that's it.

 

How many AoEs do the Grineer have?

 

1). NAPALMS! My God these are simply ridiculous.

2). Scorch (you can run around one full speed and it will track you the whole time, there is no way to avoid its fire if you're in range, no matter how fast you move)

3). Eviscerators (you can try to take cover, you can try to move, you can even run behind him while he's shooting, and he will actually shoot through himself to hit you while you're behind him, and those stupid discs always seem to home in on you even if they miss you and bounce off a wall, they seem to always bounce in the right direction to hit you again).'

4). It is worth mentioning Radial Blast.....again.......because it is UNAVOIDABLE no matter what you do, other than staying at range (which is not always possible).

 

What AoE do the Corpus have?

 

1). Shockwave Moas (since I mentioned Radial Blast again, I'll mention this again to be fair)

 

And..........that's it.

 

Other discrepancies:

 

1). Corpus have lousy accuracy at range, very little of any of their shots ever hit you whatsoever if you merely take a few steps in either direction once they shoot. Meanwhile, Grineer can hit you while you are running at full speed with at least half of their shots from their Hinds/Grakatas, despite both weapons having horrible accuracy during the middle of their firing patterns.

 

2). There's a RIDICULOUS survivability discrepancy between the Grineer and Corpus heavies -- Elite Crewmen and even Techs are nowhere near as sturdy as Gunners and Napalms. Gunners don't do as much damage as Elite Crewmen or Techs, but yet, Crewmen and Techs don't have Radial Blast, either. Techs can throw out Shield Bots, but any AoE takes care of those as they are basically flying pieces of cardboard and are about as sturdy as such.

[Revel72]

Mag? Weak? What?

 

Against Infestation she is pretty Ok but everything what has shields are extremely annoying to deal with especially Eviscators. Two shots and you are about 10% health left.

 

Was there some complain about Elite Crewman? I guess that player who cried about them is W+M1 champion. Because seriously they are easy to win.

[TwiceDead]

Loki invis + Radial Disarm equals...?

"Useless Grineer with their batons prancing around us all." 

 

Of course when you can no longer invis OR radial disarm, you're kinda #*($%%@ unless you stay at sniping distance(which I usually do)... 

[Yefrign]

I do have to agree that the AOE is $&*&*#(%&ly huge. I can understand a big AOE but it SHOULD be affected by cover, walls (snow globe) etc. not when you are in the next room and you still cop the damage. 

[Talos101]

Don't know if this is said yet, but one thing that can be implemented is that you could reduce the time you are on fire by rolling down on the floor several times! just like on real life. This could be cool.

[Aggh]

Xylia,

 

If the grineer were that overpowered why still ppl (like me) choose to fight against them?

TBH i find a Fusion MOA more terrifying than a Napalm.

Napalm dont have unavoidable attacks like you state. Hell, i even dodge it with a backflip in some situations.

 

I just like the enemies that forces you to change your aggressive nature into a cover-seeking defense/tactical playstyle.

Groups of 5 napalms are harder to deal with than anything corpus can throw.  Saw plenty of that early on.  I just abused mag and nova to the fullest without any real problem, but not everyone else has those options. 

 

It meant that corpus pugs were a lot less effective on top of the fact that they were already having to compete vs grineer pugs+the biggest clans in the games stacking on to grineer.  Nevermind that it also meant that loyalty missions took less time because of how much easier the corpus were to deal with for most players.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Aggh

[Helljack84]

W+M1 champion

You obviously don't understand how Mag's abilities work.

 

OT: Please remove the ridiculous aoe range from napalms

Edited October 27, 2013 by Helljack84

[KrashOmnis]

I was actually enjoying fighting Grineer until Arcadia came along.

Did one mission and I was like "uh, this sucks."

Pretty much this. I did 5 missions to qualify for battle pay and went back to whatever else I was doing.

I actually appreciate the challenge, but that doesn't mitigate the simple fact: The Grineer Napalm is not properly balanced. I mean to emphasize "properly" because a few things that have already been expressed in this thread but I will go ahead and list to make sure my point makes sense.

Please remember that this is all based on my experience with Napalms in the Gradivus Delimma event, and some posts that I've read in this thread.

1. Their [Napalm's] projectile does not behave in such a way that it can be dealt with in a way that makes sense for the level that they start appearing.

-The projectile is not stopped by certain shields, the most of common of which is Frost's Snow Globe.

-Even with a shield, this projectile can often be difficult to see, so for it to go through a shield is an incredible jump up in difficulty.

-This makes Napalms seem like the most powerful enemy you could possibly encounter in say Arcadia (at the time of this post).

-The disparity between the Napalm and the next unit down in terms of power seems very great.

-Examples: Eviscerator has high damage, but does not pierce shields. Heavy Gunner, can knock down and heavy damage, but cannot penetrate the shield. Bombard is more or less the same.

Conclusion: The Napalm projectile is meant to behave uniquely from other units projectiles.

Counter-Point: This doesn't make gameplay sense as the difference, while a very simple change (they go through a shield, others don't), inordinately changes the way a player must deal with a Napalm as opposed to the way that deal with a Bombard, Eviscerator, Heavy gunner, etc.

2. Their [Naplam's] projectile's area of effect upon explosion is so large as to hit me even if I attempt to dodge it.

-Effectively, if a Napalm gets a shot off, no matter how good the host's connection, I will be on fire.

Conclusion: Lag? I'm not sure if this is intended, and I can't really think of a reason that is different enough to not reiterate what I said in number 1.

3. More than two Napalms at a time pretty much deep fries anyone who isn't in a Rhino.

-This could be that people are standing in the fire. Pretty common problem in any online game.

-Their projectile is strong in a single dose. So when there are three, usually I find myself needing to dispatch them and then triage revive the rest of my group.

-Along the same thought, not only does the explosion cause immediate damage, but it puts a DoT on you. If my thinking is correct, being hit by another projectile adds on top of that DoT. (two questions I can't answer: Do subsequent explosions add another seperate DoT with it's own time like WoW, or does it add time and damage to the same DoT?)

-Any time in this whole event that I've seen three Napalms simultaneously, at least 2-3 people died.

-I've never actually seen 4 Napalms at once, but that might been because I killed one, only to have my iron skin char broiled off by the shots of the other three, then we wiped.

Conclusion: Napalm is meant to be the most dangerous enemy unit.

Counter-Point: Disparity again. They are far and away the most dangerous and are of first priority on my mental kill-on-sight list.

My suggestions:

1. Tune down the Napalm's projectile in two ways: Slightly reduced area of effect on explosion, and rescind their ability to ignore things like Snow Globe.

OR

2. Increase the minimum level at which Grineer Napalm's appear.

OR

3. Let them only spawn two at the most at any one time.

I enjoy toast that is made from bread. I do not enjoy toast that is made from Tenno.

Those are my thoughts. Feel free to pick them apart and nail your responses to my metaphorical Wittenberg Church door. That's a Protestant Reformation joke.

Edited October 28, 2013 by KrashOmnis

[StanicEnemy]

Agreed

[Unagi604]

The shots are slow enough.  Just do a sideways tactical roll to save yourself and feel like a bad &#! at the same time :)

[Kolos1001]

Stay mobile. Don't stand in the fire. Many frames have abilities to neutralize the napalm threat. Be aware of your surroundings.

 

Excalibur- blind

nyx-everything

Loki-disarm

mag-shield polarize

trinity-link/blessing

Rhino-stomp

nekros-terrify

Nova-Mol prime(Slows their fire rate)

Vauban-vortex

 

Unless you are running teams of 4 banshees I don't think they pose too much trouble unless they are lvl 100+ and then they SHOULD be challenging.

[TwiceDead]

Stay mobile. Don't stand in the fire. Many frames have abilities to neutralize the napalm threat. Be aware of your surroundings.

 

Excalibur- blind

nyx-everything

Loki-disarm

mag-shield polarize

trinity-link/blessing

Rhino-stomp

nekros-terrify

Nova-Mol prime(Slows their fire rate)

Vauban-vortex

 

Unless you are running teams of 4 banshees I don't think they pose too much trouble unless they are lvl 100+ and then they SHOULD be challenging.

 

This is actually surprisingly true... Except the part where they might be challenging at level 100+(jk).

[Madotsuki]

We call them the Fire Nation in the Lone Rangers clan chat XD

 

But seriously, Napalms are OP as hell. Two things need to be nerfed on them:

1. Their explosive range needs to be heavily decreased, and the bug where they hit you through walls and cover needs to be fixed.

2. Their fire rate needs a massive nerf.

Once that's done the Napalms should be a lot more acceptable. I mean, I really don't mind them doing massive damage on direct hit or creating fire hazards that are genuinely dangerous, but the explosive radius and fire rate are just rediculously frustrating.

 

Meanwhile, Scorches need to either have their damage nerfed, or they need to have a delay before firing.

A possible change: Scorches should require 1-2 seconds to warm up their Ignis before firing, during which they made a very identifiable ignition sound. Also they walk MUCH slower when firing. This should reduce the whole "silent ambush" thing they have going on that keeps insta-gibbing players and sentinels before they get a chance to react.

 

Eviscerators also need to be changed. Again, i don't mind their damage too much, but their FIRE RATE is stupidly high.

A possible change: Upgrade them to Elite (Heavy) status, thus reducing their spawn rate significantly, but giving them more health/shields. Give them two firing modes. A Normal mode where they fire at half their current fire rate, with same damage, blades will NOT bounce; and a Charged mode where the Eviscerator charges up their Miter for 2 seconds (unique warning sound) before firing a salvo of 6 blades at approx. 1.5x fire rate as current, but halved damage, blades bounce.

 

Make enemies strike both fear AND anticipation into the player, not just anger and frustrate them.

[Corpse_of_KTS]

nerfing enemies is top 2 worst things that could happen to this game. (legitimate bug fixes aside)

 

oh, if you leeroy jenkins your way into a room full of enemies they ruin you? GOOD. Maybe it should teach you that you can't do that and need to use even the slightest bit of brain power to fight them.

 

IMO every enemy should be buffed to napalm/scorch/elite crewman status. 

 

Even then it won't mean a thing because all I have to do is pick Nova/Rhino with a Soma and run around the map pressing 4 to win. GG warframe

Edited October 28, 2013 by Corpse_of_KTS

[fatpig84]

what ?

 

Mag is the best performer in this event period.

 

Mag

1) Slap coil

2) Slap stretch

3) Slap Blind rage + focus.

4) Fleeting Expertise + Streamline

5) Then put an Ignis on her.

6) Redirection

 

Seriously Mag is the ONLY character my Ignis cannot out kill (mainly because I have no blind range and expertise + a potato mag >.>).

Things that are rag dolled still takes immense damage from ignis and she is doing 600+ damage per pull at a 50m+ range AOE.

Edited October 28, 2013 by fatpig84

[Deaths.Reap3r]

Thats why Nyx is my babe :3

[Freelancer27]

I think this idea is slowly moving towards Warframe ideas other than Napalms right now... I think.