Warding Halo does not always give 90% damage reduction like it should

[Terroriced]

Nezhas 3rd Ability is Warding Halo. When active, it should always give 90% damage reduction, but it doesn't. When an instance of incoming damage is higher than Warding Halo HP, no damage reduction for that hit is being applied, but instead Warding Halo HP is used as if it was extra health / shield and in some cases the damage is even higher due to complex interactions with toxin and IPS, often resulting in Nezha instantly getting killed.

 

 

For a Nezha with 500 HP, 0 shield,  0 armor and 300 points in Warding Halo

a hit with 300 raw damage will do 300 * 0.1 = 30 damage, which Nezha will survive with 470 HP left

a hit with 800 raw damage should do 800 * 0.1 = 80 damage, which Nezha would survive with 420 HP left

but instead a hit with 800 raw damage will do 800 - 300 = 500 damage, which will instantly kill Nezha.

 

 

This is not how the ability is supposed to work. You can read about the devs intentions in the Nezha revisited dev workshop.

Zitat

When the health of the Warding Halo runs out, it will do an AoE heat status effect and give you a short period of invulnerability.

• Why? This gives the player precious time to react, helping survivability while controlling the enemies immediately around you. Your next Warding Halo can be recast during this window to ensure you’re always protected!

 

But because of the incorrect damage calculation formula, the player often dies right before activation of the short period of invulnerability, that is supposed to keep him 'always protected' like the devs intended it to be.

[Jetstar33]

This is a brilliant observation, i knew something was up with it but i couldn't see any changes to him other than his Divine Spears script so they must have knocked something lose.

[AkrasiaXXX]

I finally got killed because of the bug on a Sortie. Then I achieve a 956K Halo on the next cast. CRAZY

[Terroriced]

This bug is unfortunately still in the game after

The New War: Hotfix 31.0.7

[CephalonCarnage]

Agreed - the halo expiry provides invulnerabilty.

However, any remaining damage that caused the halo to expire is applied 100% to the frame, and that could cause death, despite the intention being that invulnerability kicks in.

So, any additional damage that causes the halo to expire should be discarded, and the invulnerability phase applied as currently occurs.

[Terroriced]

The bug is still in the game unchanged in

Veilbreaker: Hotfix 32.0.2

 

It has almost been 4 years, come on devs, do something.

 

[Terroriced]

Please read this comment instead, it has the math fixed and simplified.

Spoiler

Edit: After further testing I found out that I was wrong, because I made the faulty assumption, that Archon Niras Verdilac works like the version playable by Tenno. The following calculations are unfortunately incorrect. I made a new post further down fixing those mistakes and coming to a new conclusion.

 

I have a new version of this bug on video, but this time Warding Halo actually increased the damage dealt to Nezha. That means there are now 3 possible scenarios that can happen.

 

1. Warding Halo works as intended and gives Nezha 90% damage reduction. This is the case when Warding Halo does not get depleted by a hit.

2. Warding Halo is bugged and gives between 90% and 0% damage reduction. This is the case when Warding Halo does get depleted by a hit in most cases.

3. This is new. Warding Halo is bugged and INCREASES the damage that Nezha takes. This has been observed when Warding Halo did get depleted by a hit with combined IPS and toxin damage. Nezha should only have received 10% of the damage, but took 115% instead, oneshotting him.

 

Case 1 vs. Case 3 comparison:

Spoiler

 

Case 1 Example situation: Nezha gets hit by Archon Nira with Verdilacs second hit from its unique block combo (200% damage), dealing IPS + toxin.

 

Expected result:             Warding Halo provides 90% damage reduction.

 

Observed result:           Warding Halos points              5268       -->      3192

                                    Nezhas shields                          100       -->          36

                                    Nezhas health                        1337       -->       1286

 

Calculations:                 Warding Halos lost points allow calculating the raw damage value for that hit (initial damage input before applying any source of damage reduction)

                                    5268 - 3192 = 2076

                                    2076 / 90 * 100 = 2306.7

                                    If Warding Halos points reduced by 2076, this means the raw damage value was 2306.7

                                    This is because Warding Halos points reduce by 90% of raw damage, not 100%. (This reduction is also not affected by crit.)

 

                                    Damage to shields observed allows calculating the raw IPS damage value

                                    100 - 36 = 64

                                    64 * (1 / (1 - (0.9 + (1 - 0.9) * 0.25))) = 853.3

                                    If shields reduced by 64, this means the raw damage to shields value was 853.3

                                    This is because two sources of damage reduction applied multiplicative. Those are 90% from Warding Halo and 25% from Tenno Shields.

 

                                    Damage to health observed allows calculating the raw toxin damage value

                                    1337 - 1286 = 51

                                    51 * (1 / (1 - (0.9 + (1 - 0.9) * (555 / (300 + 555))))) = 1453.5

                                    If health reduced by 51, this means the raw toxin damage value was 1453.5

                                    This is because two sources of damage reduction applied multiplicative. Those are 90% from Warding Halo and ~65% from 555 Tenno Armor.

 

                                    1453.5 + 853.3 = 2306.8

                                    Adding raw IPS damage to raw toxin damage results in total raw damage like in the first calculation.

                                    This confirms that all sources of damage reduction, including Warding Halo, were applied as intended.

 

Conclusion:                  Warding Halo provided 90% damage reduction as intended.

 

Case 3 Example situation: Following Case 1, Nezha gets hit by Archon Nira with Verdilacs third hit from its unique block combo (500% damage), dealing IPS + toxin.

 

Expected result:             Warding Halo provides 90% damage reduction.

 

Observed result:           Warding Halos points              3192       -->           0

                                    Nezhas shields                            37       -->           0

                                    Nezhas health                        1289       -->           0

                                    There was 1 Adaptation stack against toxin from the previous hit of Case 1.

                                    Shields had regenerated by 1 and health had regenerated by 3 due to Rejuvenation aura mod after Case 1.

                                    EE.log: Game [Info]: Terroriced was killed by 2,551 / 2,590 damage from a level 150 ArchonNiraAvatarNewPNW1075 using a AiPNWArchonWhipWep

                                    Semlars death log parser explains: <Terroriced> killed by 2,590 damage at 2,551 health

                                    Something is clearly not right with those values. Even the health value looks incorrect.

 

Calculations:                 The first thing I want to do is calculating if Nezha would have died if Warding Halo was not up, thereby not providing the 90% damage reduction.

                                    Only the toxin damage part is relevant for this question since all the IPS damage would just hit the shield gate.

                                    1453.5 / 2 * 5 = 3633.8

                                    If the first hit from Case 1 did have 1453.3 raw toxin damage, the following hit of Case 3 has 3633.8 raw toxin damage.

                                    This is because of the different multipliers of Verdilacs unique block combo (200% for Case 1 and 500% for Case 3).

 

                                    3633.8 * (1 - ((555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (555 / (300 + 555))) * 0.1)) = 1147.5

                                    If only the damage reduction from Tenno Armor and the 10% from Adaptation against toxin apply, Nezha would receive 1147.5 damage and survive.

                                    Since Nezha got oneshot, this confirms, that there is a bug with Warding Halo increasing the damage instead of reducing it by 90%.

 

                                    For comparison, I want to calculate, how much damage Nezha would have received, if Warding Halo worked as intended.

                                    3633.8 / (1 / (1 - (0.9 + (1 - 0.9) * (555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (0.9 + (1 - 0.9) * (555 / (300 + 555)))) * 0.1))) = 114.8

                                    We can either do the full calculation like that or take 10% of the previous result.

 

                                    Now that we know that there is a bug it would be interesting to find out how the game calculated those incorrect values it showed on the EE.log.

                                    It took me quite some time, but I think I was able to find an explanation for where the false 2551 supposed health come from.

                                    2551 = 1581.2 + 1289 - 3192 * 0.1

                                    Ok, this looks a bit more complicated. I will try to explain.

                                    1289 - 3192 * 0.1 is observed health minus 10% of Warding Halos points.

                                    1581.2 is raw damage to shields reduced by Tenno Shields 25% damage reduction.

                                    1581.2 / (1 / (1 - 0.9) / 2 * 5) = 63.248

                                    This calculation allows verifying whether those numbers are coherent with previous observations.

                                    63.248 calculated damage to shields on Case 1 differs from the observed 64.

                                    However, this is within the range of rounding error. Remember, that all observed numbers are rounded and we don't know the exact values.

                                    Observing 100 shields reduced to 36 can also mean it's actually 99.6 shields reduced by 63.248 damage to 36.352, not necessarily 64 damage.

 

                                    Making this small shift means I have to recalculate everything to double check and see, if it still makes sense. It does.

                                    raw damage to shield on Case 1     63.352 * (1 / (1 - (0.9 + (1 - 0.9) * 0.25))) = 844.7                        853.3       -->        844.7

                                    raw damage to health on Case 1    2306.7 - 844.7 = 1462                                                                1453.5      -->        1462

                                    damage to health on Case 1          1462 / (1 / (1 - (0.9 + (1 - 0.9) * (555 / (300 + 555))))) = 51.3          51         -->        51.3

                                    raw toxin damage on Case 3          1462 / 2 * 5 = 3655                                                                     3633.8      -->       3655

                                    damage w/o WH       3655 * (1 - ((555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (555 / (300 + 555))) * 0.1)) = 1154.2     1147.5      -->      1154.2

                                    expected toxin damage for WH      1154.2 * 0.1 = 115.4                                                                     114.8       -->       115.4

                                    This was just to make sure the reasoning is still correct and the answer is yes.

 

                                    Next up I want to show what I believe is how the game calculates the false damage value of 2590 it shows in the EE.log

                                    1581.2 + 1154.2 - (3655 - 3192) * (1 - ((555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (555 / (300 + 555))) * 0.1)) = 2589.2

                                    This is close enough for rounding error. But what is actually being done here?

                                    1581.2 again is raw damage to shields reduced by Tenno Shields 25% damage reduction.

                                    1154.2 is the toxin damage if Warding Halo did not apply any damage reduction (damage w/o WH ), but Tenno Armor and Adaptation did.

                                    (3655 - 3192) * (1 - ((555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (555 / (300 + 555))) * 0.1)) The first part here is raw toxin damage minus Warding Halos points.

                                    The second part is the damage reduction from Tenno Armor and Adaptation applied to it but not the damage reduction from Warding Halo.

                                    That's absolutly not how the game should calculate damage.

 

                                    So how much damage to health did get applied?

                                    1154.2 - (3655 - 3192) * (1 - ((555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (555 / (300 + 555))) * 0.1)) = 1008

                                    That's not enough to kill Nezha, but remember that the health value from the EE.log was already missing 3192*0.1 health. 

                                    That had apparently been inflicted in an earlier calculation step for the same hit. So the total damage to health is 1327.2

                                    Compared to the 1154.2 (non lethal) damage Nezha would have taken without Warding Halo, this is 1327.2 / 11.542 = 15% more.

 

Conclusion:                  Warding Halo did not provide its 90% damage reduction at all, and instead increased the damage dealt to Nezha to 115%.

                                   Compared to the intended 90% damage reduction Nezha received 11.5 times the damage.

 

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

I had this same thing happen to me when fighting Nira.  I thought it was weird I was instantly downed when I had the halo up.  Now I see it's a bug.

[Grand-Dozer]

Is this bug actually still in the game? I noticed this odd behavior with Warding Halo inside Steel Path Mot.

[Terroriced]

vor 15 Stunden schrieb Grand-Dozer:

Is this bug actually still in the game? I noticed this odd behavior with Warding Halo inside Steel Path Mot.

Yes, this bug is still in the game. I just tested it again for you (game version 32.0.12)

 

I also made a small edit on my first post, since the numbers were a little bit different than what I had written in August 2021.

For a hit with only IPS damage, that depletes Warding Halo ('Case 2'), the bugged damage is

(raw damage minus Warding Halos points) reduced by damage reduction from Tenno Armor added by 10% of Warding Halos points

when it should be

raw damage reduced by damage reduction from Tenno Armor and Warding Halos 90% damage reduction.

 

[Mazifet]

I encountered it while fighting boreal solo, one second I was at 350 health, the next 0.

[Terroriced]

Spoiler

I was wrong about the Archon Nira special bug variant, because I made a false assumption. Most of those calculations I made in October 2022 are incorrect, including the conclusion that there is a bug that increases damage taken by Nezha beyond 100%. There is still a bug, but the numbers are different, which means Nezha is more vulnerable against Nira than with the common bug variant, but not more vulnerable than without Warding Halo.

The wrong assumption I made, that makes my calculations invalid, is that Archon Niras Verdilac shares the same properties as the playable version described on the warframe wiki.

I did some extensive testing and here are the results.

(Changes to my build: I removed Adaptaion, Rejuvenation, arcanes, companions and I also made sure Nira was the only enemy around)

 

While the playable version of Verdilac has a unique three strike combo, coming with a 400%, a 200% and a 500% damage multiplier, Archon Niras Verdilac does not follow this pattern.

Instead the combo comes with a 100%, another 100% and a 450% damage multiplier.

 

Another difference is the damage composition. The playable version has 50% IPS and 50% toxin damage, but Niras version is very different.

On the first two hits the ratio is approximately 51 toxin to 30 IPS damage (~63% toxin).

On the 3rd strike the ratio is approximately 228 toxin to 91 IPS damage (~71.5% toxin).

 

Learning this from observation makes calculating the values from the EE.log and understanding this bug version much easier than the craziness from my previous investigation attempt.

Remember that the standard bug version was (raw_damage - Warding_Halos_points) reduced by other sources of damage reduction but not Warding Halo

This version is not that different:

Am 2.10.2022 um 13:53 schrieb Terroriced:

Observed result:           Warding Halos points              3192       -->           0

                                    Nezhas shields                            37       -->           0

                                    Nezhas health                        1289       -->           0

 

228 / 319 * (9091.5 - 3192) * (1 -  ((555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (555 / (300 + 555))) * 0.1)) = 1331.5

228 / 319 means calculating the toxin component only (the 71.5% toxin from earlier) (228 / ( 228 + 91))

(9091.5 - 3192) is (raw_damage - Warding_Halos_points) like in the standard bug version.

(1 -  ((555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (555 / (300 + 555))) * 0.1)) is the damage reduction from Tenno Armor and Adaptaion applied to it, but not Warding Halo.

Since Nezha did only have 1289 health, the 1331.5 toxin damage oneshot him.

 

9091.5 raw_damage can be calculated like this:

If Nezha receives 319 observed damage to health on the 3rd combo hit when shields are down and Warding Halo is active (and is also not getting depleted by that hit), combined IPS+toxin would deal 10 times that much damage without Warding Halo.

319 * 10 = 3190

3190 / (1 - 555 / (555 + 300)) = 9091.5

raw_damage before the 555 Tenno Armor apply is calculated like this.

 

Next up IPS damage to shields needs to be determined

(1 - 228 / 319) * (9091.5 - 3192) * (1 - 0.25) = 1262.2

(1 - 228 / 319) means calculating the IPS component only (the 100% combined damage - 71.5% toxin from earlier)

(9091.5 - 3192) again is (raw_damage - Warding_Halos_points) like in the standard bug version.

(1 - 0.25) is the damage reduction from Tenno Shields applied to it, but not Warding Halo and for some unknown reason also not the damage reduction from Adaptation.

1262.2 + 1289 = 2551.2

Adding IPS damage against shields to observed health gives the health value from the EE.log

1262.2 + 1331.5 = 2593.7

Adding IPS damage against shields to toxin damage against health approximately gives the damage value from the EE.log (2590 damage, close enough for rounding error).

 

If Nezha didnt have Warding Halo active, he would have taken

228 / 319 * 9091.5 * (1 - ((555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (555 / (300 + 555))) * 0.1)) = 2052 toxin damage and get oneshot.

 

If the standard bug version applied, Nezha would have taken

(228 / 319 * 9091.5 - 3192) * (1 - ((555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (555 / (300 + 555))) * 0.1)) = 1044 toxin damage and would have survived.

 

If Warding Halo would work as intended with no bugs, Nezha would have taken

228 / 319 * 9091.5 / (1 / (1 - (0.9 + (1 - 0.9) * (555 / (300 + 555)) + (1 - (0.9 + (1 - 0.9) * (555 / (300 + 555)))) * 0.1))) = 205.2 toxin damage and would have easily survived.

(228 * 0.9 = 205.2 easier formula)

 

But since Nezha got oneshot by 1331.5 toxin damage this is a different bug compared to the standard version.

What happens is that a hit with combined IPS + toxin, that depletes Warding Halo, kinda works as if a part of the IPS would bypass the shield gate.

 

Here is an example:

Imagine a Nezha with 4000 points in Warding Halo and some shields for the shield gate (and no Armor to make the example easier).

A hit with 5000 toxin damage should be reduced by 90%, making Nezha take 500 toxin damage.

A hit with 5000 toxin damage according to the standard bug version will be reduced to 5000 - 4000 = 1000 toxin damage.

 

If we add 5000 additional IPS damage to the same hit one could expect that to be irrelevant since it would just crash into the shield gate and the toxin damage remains unchanged.

However, what happens is that now the game calculates 10000 - 4000 = 6000 combined damage (50% of that is toxin) --> 3000 toxin damage

The game has just tripled the toxin damage that Nezha takes compared to the standard bug variant, even though the toxin damage value was not changed.

 

Im sorry for messing up calculations last time. Thank you for reading!