RNG is soooooo not Random

[(PSN)Trip675x]

We all hate RNG and know its broken as heck. 

Devs, please understand it needs a seed. That seed needs to be somewhat random. Timestamp as a factor can help, but you can't multiply by anything or that dominates. 

 

Look at tables that you think you are generating. Equinox is a great example. Look at expected and then look at actual. 

No way random would drop soooooo many night sys and day neuro if it was working as desired. 

Please work on RNG, hire an expert. It's the most broken part of the game. 

[Uhkretor]

12 minutes ago, (PSN)Trip675x said:

Look at expected and then look at actual.

... "Expected" does not represent truth or certainty of anything anywhere...

 

... "actual" does not represent universal truth or universal certainty of anything, anywhere. It only represents the actual circumstance for the person that is affected by "actual"...

 

... I don't know, I feel like RNG is working as intended.

[Flannoit]

RNG sucks no matter what, that's just what it boils down to. But that's how a lot of games get their playtime. The RNG itself is mostly fine, and seeds will not fix the issue in the slightest.

 

[Lutesque]

Well yes.. Warframe's RNG isnt the usual Algorithm Programmers use, you can notice the most when farming warframe components, alot of the time players will get all three parts they need in just three runs, my guess is DE designed it this way, 

1 hour ago, Flannoit said:

RNG sucks no matter what,

+1

 

[quxier]

1 hour ago, Flannoit said:

RNG sucks no matter what, that's just what it boils down to. But that's how a lot of games get their playtime. The RNG itself is mostly fine, and seeds will not fix the issue in the slightest.

I don't know if it's widely used term but I use terms:

- restricted RNG -> RNG that is restricted somehow, e.g. you cannot pick rare/gold drop 3 times in a row

- unrestricted RNG -> you don't restrict RNG - everything can happen

 

WoW do (did?) restricted RNG. Every drop that fails increase your change to drop some rarer stuffs. So you are guaranteed to drop a rare loot after N tries.

 

2 hours ago, (PSN)Trip675x said:

Devs, please understand it needs a seed. That seed needs to be somewhat random. Timestamp as a factor can help, but you can't multiply by anything or that dominates. 

It's doable but I think it's harder to pick right seeds.

And picking only 1 seed would make it not random. You can pick more but that would require more work.

 

Quote

RNG is soooooo not Random

2 hours ago, (PSN)Trip675x said:

No way random would drop soooooo many night sys and day neuro if it was working as desired. 

And that's what is randomness. But you don't want randomness here.

 

[(PSN)Trip675x]

2 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... "Expected" does not represent truth or certainty of anything anywhere...

 

... "actual" does not represent universal truth or universal certainty of anything, anywhere. It only represents the actual circumstance for the person that is affected by "actual"...

 

... I don't know, I feel like RNG is working as intended.

Actual for 1 person is not, however as a developer, they have access to aggregate data that would show they have a bad algorithm. Problem is they think they are smarter than the rng function so they add factors. Whenever you multiply the seed, that becomes the factor because the algorithm is necessarily not random. NOTHING with a computer is actually random. 

 

When results don't match intent, then it's time to look at the math being used for the seeds. 

[Flannoit]

50 minutes ago, (PSN)Trip675x said:

Actual for 1 person is not, however as a developer, they have access to aggregate data that would show they have a bad algorithm. Problem is they think they are smarter than the rng function so they add factors. Whenever you multiply the seed, that becomes the factor because the algorithm is necessarily not random. NOTHING with a computer is actually random. 

 

When results don't match intent, then it's time to look at the math being used for the seeds. 

The "expected" literally is just a guess based on percentage. It doesn't even use a formula, and if it does, perfect accuracy is not intended. The "Expected" rate is literally "you'll probably have it by this time"

[(PSN)Trip675x]

I'm really not looking for trolls to just say "eat your veggies" I'm trying to illustrate a problem with the game for developers to improve it. 

I give up. My friend came over. He won't play the game because it is SOOOOOOOOOO grindy. 

Without any trading mechanic for these crappy drops so people with different rng can balance out, this is just a waste of time and I will grind standing, relics or eidolons for tradable items that I can sell for Plat and buy my stupid last frame on a 75% off. 

Suggestion for mechanic. Steel path, holo key, arbitration item like riven unlock that allows for a trade of any single blueprint. 

It would create a new market and diminish frustration without intense rewrite of algorithms. 

One unlock can be purchased a week, maybe limit inventory capacity, seller or buyer has to put one in trade window before non-tradable item can be added to transaction. 

RNG equinox

I put the result in front for readability.  I'm sure these lines look different on everyone's screens. 

Result Number, description, percent, fraction, whole number

Published drop table. Perfect drop for 30 runs
3 Night Aspect Blueprint (11.28%) 3.38 3
4 Night Chassis Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4
4 Night Neuroptics Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4
4 Night Systems Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4
3 Day Aspect Blueprint (11.28%) 3.38 3
4 Day Chassis Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4
4 Day Neuroptics Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4
4 Day Systems Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4

Result Number, description, percent, whole number

Today's experience. Actual drop for 30 runs. 
0 Night Aspect Blueprint (0%) 0
5 Night Chassis Blueprint (16.66%) 5 
8 Night Neuroptics Blueprint (26.66%) 8
5 Night Systems Blueprint (16.66%) 5
1 Day Aspect Blueprint (3.33%) 1
2 Day Chassis Blueprint (6.66%) 2
6 Day Neuroptics Blueprint (20.0%) 6
3 Day Systems Blueprint (10.0%) 3
 

 

[Uhkretor]

16 hours ago, (PSN)Trip675x said:

My friend came over. He won't play the game because it is SOOOOOOOOOO grindy. 

That's his choice.

 

This isn't either Fortnite or a single player game that you go to the store and buy for $70 or so and pretty much all things are given if you just find all the secrets in the game... Its a multiplayer game (Online, for that matter), where the player makes a choice to either pay for the stuff, grind for the stuff or both (if the player has good enough IQ to actually manage both).

16 hours ago, (PSN)Trip675x said:

I'm really not looking for trolls to just say "eat your veggies" I'm trying to illustrate a problem with the game for developers to improve it.

The problem you're trying to illustrate is only in front of your eyes due to your friend's choice of leaving Warframe.

 

It has nothing to do with RNG itself.

16 hours ago, (PSN)Trip675x said:

Result Number, description, percent, fraction, whole number

Published drop table. Perfect drop for 30 runs
3 Night Aspect Blueprint (11.28%) 3.38 3
4 Night Chassis Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4
4 Night Neuroptics Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4
4 Night Systems Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4
3 Day Aspect Blueprint (11.28%) 3.38 3
4 Day Chassis Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4
4 Day Neuroptics Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4
4 Day Systems Blueprint (12.91%) 3.87 4

Result Number, description, percent, whole number

Today's experience. Actual drop for 30 runs. 
0 Night Aspect Blueprint (0%) 0
5 Night Chassis Blueprint (16.66%) 5 
8 Night Neuroptics Blueprint (26.66%) 8
5 Night Systems Blueprint (16.66%) 5
1 Day Aspect Blueprint (3.33%) 1
2 Day Chassis Blueprint (6.66%) 2
6 Day Neuroptics Blueprint (20.0%) 6
3 Day Systems Blueprint (10.0%) 3

This shows no problem whatsoever with RNG.

The number you're showing here are different for everyone. That's why I said

19 hours ago, Uhkretor said:

... "actual" does not represent universal truth or universal certainty of anything, anywhere. It only represents the actual circumstance for the person that is affected by "actual"...

Does RNG suck? I couldn't say, I still get stuff that exist in the droptables without problems so~ I'm fine with it, by the words of some players, being quite suckity.

... Can it be improved? I'll just leave that evaluation or decision to [DE]...

 

... Now, trying to illustrate a problem that doesn't exist by mathematical probability standards isn't how you're going to prove that there's a problem with it... It just shows that you're jumping the gun due to misunderstanding how mathematical probability actually works.

16 hours ago, (PSN)Trip675x said:

I give up.

Ok. I'll just go back to Plague Star with my clan members.

[ChuckTrek]

If you flip a coin 99 times and get tails each time, what are the chances the 100th coin toss with be tails? 50%

Random is random, a 11.28% of getting the Night Aspect Blueprint means that each time to run it you have a 88.72% chance of not getting it. The chance of not getting that specific piece after 30 runs is still 2.76%. The chance of not getting all 8 pieces after 30 runs is about 8%.