Thunderbolt Should Max Out At 100%

[MJ12]

Thunderbolt, after its changes, no longer scales with +Rifle Damage. It does benefit from elemental damage, but its damage is fairly low (250).

 

It also forces you to stand off at a 10m radius to use it. The Ogris has an explosion with equal AoE, that has approximately the same fire rate as spamming arrows all over the place, that deals twice as much damage, gain more damage with mods, and is more easily aimed. Also, the Ogris has an extra mod slot free, given that it doesn't need TBolt.

 

So now, I ask, why exactly can't Thunderbolt be increased to a 25% chance per level of explosion, maxing out at 100%? It wouldn't make bows OP or anything, it'd just make them more entertaining. It'd make a explosion-bow a semi-viable weapon, a ghetto Ogris of sorts, and it'd definitely allow you to actually build around Thunderbolt instead of its current situation of being unreliable yet extremely dangerous-so you have to maneuver like it'll proc with every shot, but you also don't have it proc with every shot, thus getting the worst of both worlds.

 

Please buff Thunderbolt to have a 100% explosion chance at max level. It'd be fun and not imbalanced.

[leonvision]

it never did scale with rifle damage...

 

i agree it should be increased, but not to 100%, it might be abit much. with multishot, that's 500 damage in a pretty sizable aoe, everyshot. and since they made the arrow damage applied before the explosion, i dont think it needs 100%.

[MJ12]

it never did scale with rifle damage...

 

i agree it should be increased, but not to 100%, it might be abit much. with multishot, that's 500 damage in a pretty sizable aoe, everyshot. and since they made the arrow damage applied before the explosion, i dont think it needs 100%.

 

When it was introduced, it was boosted by +Damage mods. This was hilarious, because it meant you could easily commit suicide with the Paris (like you can with the Ogris) by nicking yourself with the blast radius.

 

And so with multishot... it'll deal the same AoE damage as an Ogris? That's the point. Even at 100%, even if you made it scale with rifle mods, maxing it out means you have... a worse Ogris. Because the Ogris can accept the same mods, with the exception of Multishot, and become far more powerful because its blast damage does scale with rifle damage mods and is 100% higher without mods.

 

That's not "a bit much". Literally a 100% Thunderbolt is "use 9 mod points to make this weapon a crappier Ogris".

Edited November 10, 2013 by MJ12

[leonvision]

When it was introduced, it was boosted by +Damage mods. This was hilarious, because it meant you could easily commit suicide with the Paris (like you can with the Ogris) by nicking yourself with the blast radius.

 

And so with multishot... it'll deal the same AoE damage as an Ogris? That's the point. Even at 100%, even if you made it scale with rifle mods, maxing it out means you have... a worse Ogris. Because the Ogris can accept the same mods, with the exception of Multishot, and become far more powerful because its blast damage does scale with rifle damage mods and is 100% higher without mods.

 

That's not "a bit much". Literally a 100% Thunderbolt is "use 9 mod points to make this weapon a crappier Ogris".

 

you keep forgetting the arrow itself already dealt large amount of damage to a single target before the aoe.

[Noxraconis]

IMO It is "Bow"

[CubedOobleck]

Thunderbolt - it is possibly the most inconsistent mod in the game and doesn’t work as one would expect with damage mods and elementals; the explosion radius is almost twice as large as the Ogris’; I sincerely hope this mod can retire with the introduction of the blast elemental effect.

My full opinion here

Edited November 10, 2013 by CubedOobleck

[Aggh]

When it was introduced, it was boosted by +Damage mods. This was hilarious, because it meant you could easily commit suicide with the Paris (like you can with the Ogris) by nicking yourself with the blast radius.

 

And so with multishot... it'll deal the same AoE damage as an Ogris? That's the point. Even at 100%, even if you made it scale with rifle mods, maxing it out means you have... a worse Ogris. Because the Ogris can accept the same mods, with the exception of Multishot, and become far more powerful because its blast damage does scale with rifle damage mods and is 100% higher without mods.

 

That's not "a bit much". Literally a 100% Thunderbolt is "use 9 mod points to make this weapon a crappier Ogris".

No, it never scaled with damage mods, ever.  It was (and iirc still is) affected by elemental mods though.  There's no reason it shouldn't be affected by +damage mods.  It'd just be a more random ogris with less damage potential since you have to slot thunderbolt.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Aggh

[Bibliothekar]

But ... why would I want my bow to be a reskinned Ogris? I'd rather prefer to chose which arrows shall explode and which not - like Hawkeye can with the different tips for his arrows.

 

I'm not entirely sure, but IIRC, explosion damage scaling with Serration depends on whether you shoot the enemy directly or the wall/floor/... If you shoot an enemy, you only have the 250 explosive damage. If you shoot a wall or floor and the arrow explodes, damage scales with Serration. I might be wrong, though.

[MJ12]

you keep forgetting the arrow itself already dealt large amount of damage to a single target before the aoe.

 

The Ogris does a massive 150 base damage per rocket impact, plus the 500 explosion damage. With an AP mod slotted, it's 150 normal + 90 AP, which means that its damage output is actually well within bounds of the Paris on direct hits, which are also easier to achieve with the Ogris due to its zero ballistic arc.

 

Actually, given the 500 explosion damage, plus serration, let's look at the damage comparison to the single target. We'll assume a Lv500 Corpus so non-AP damage is irrelevant and there's no +50% bonus AP damage, and a 105% Serration.

 

The Ogris will do (2.05 x 0.6 x 150) = 184.5 damage from the direct hit, plus (2.05 x 0.6 x 500) = 615 damage from the explosion, for a total of 790 damage.

 

The Paris with a 100% Thunderbolt will do (2.05 x 100) + (2.05 x 0.6 x 100) = 328 damage from the direct hit, plus (0.6 x 250) = 150 damage from the explosion, for a total of... 478 damage, which is only 60% of the Ogris's single target damage output.

 

Even in the least favorable numbers, with no serration at all and an enemy literally immune to all non-armor ignoring damage, the Ogris wins.

 

The Ogris does 0.6 x 150 = 90 damage from the rocket, plus 0.6 x 500 = 300 damage from the explosion, for 390.

 

The Paris does 100 base, 0.6 x 100 = 60 damage from AP, plus 0.6 x 250 = 150 damage from the explosion, for 310.

 

It's closer, in that the Paris manages 80% of the Ogris's damage, but this should illustrate very clearly that the Paris is inferior in single target damage no matter what. This is literally taking the most favorable enemy for the Paris. If the enemy was a Grineer, the +50% AP bonus damage would boost the Ogris's damage by 50% to 585, while the Paris would only deal 415, or 70% of the Ogris's damage.

 

Really, I think my point about how a 100% TBolt would not obsolete the Ogris, nor would it make the Paris 'OP' any more than the Ogris has been definitively made.

 

 

No, it never scaled with damage mods, ever.  It was (and iirc still is) affected by elemental mods though.  There's no reason it shouldn't be affected by +damage mods.  It'd just be a more random ogris with less damage potential since you have to slot thunderbolt.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/41137-its-to-easy-to-kill-yourself-with-the-paris-thunderbolt/?p=398598

 

Look at DE_Steve's post. "There is a damage interaction with serration", i.e. it was getting its damage boosted by Serration when it shouldn't have been. It scaled before, but it was very quickly removed.

Edited November 10, 2013 by MJ12

[AlienOvermind]

I think corrupted mod would be fine too: increasing chance to explode (up to 70-100%), but decreasing reload speed, so the bow would fire less often.

[Makemap]

I think corrupted mod would be fine too: increasing chance to explode (up to 70-100%), but decreasing reload speed, so the bow would fire less often.

That is stupid. Thunderbolt mod would be rarer than the Corrupt mod itself because it actually have to drop from monsters(mostly). Same with the Puncture mods, either make them puncture more or reduce the points requirement. Shred out match Metal Augur(I keep getting them from Defense and Survival).

 

TB mod should be increased to 75% max.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Makemap

[Llyssa]

...except bows still have all of their other powers(knockback and such), AND almost double the fire rate of the ogris.

 

I also believe the projectile moves faster.

 

I think it is a bit awkward to use strategically, but I'm under the impression it's meant to be.

[AlienOvermind]

That is stupid. Thunderbolt mod would be rarer than the Corrupt mod itself because it actually have to drop from monsters(mostly). Same with the Puncture mods, either make them puncture more or reduce the points requirement. Shred out match Metal Augur(I keep getting them from Defense and Survival).

 

TB mod should be increased to 75% max.

Thay's stupid considering TB's existence. But it's not that stupid if we think about balance (not that DE often think abou thatm but still) — if we would absolutely need that corrupted mod to be able to fire explosive arrows constantly, then fire rate should be a bit lower, than current bows' fire rate. And if we need both TB and corrupted mod, then explosive build would be harder to obtain and not as OP as it could be with 100% TB only.

[Brynslustafir]

Yes please. 

[Grandarex]

IMO, sure. Why not.

 

Bows are being left in the dust with all the new snipers and rifles coming out, and they could use this sort of bonus. And to be honest, even with 100% chance of explosion, it will still be very underpowered compared to many easily accessible guns we have available. 

 

Give bows some love.

[MJ12]

And now we're in Damage 2.0 and this still hasn't changed.

 

Despite the fact that Thunderbolt giving bows flat Blast damage + AoE would be completely fine in Dmg 2.0.

 

DE please listen to these appeals. :(

 

I mean yes, this isn't a super critical core issue or anything but nobody seems to really dislike it and it'd make bows really cool again.