Hek, The Dethroned King.

[Bennyboombox]

hey now, sobek can be effective at ranges SWraith can only dream of.

 

 

 

typical does not mean correct.

 

also, hovering on peoples' names shows quick info, like account age. 

(my account is 9 days older than yours).

just sayin'.

 

i've seen almost everything. Braton Vandal needs to be rebalanced again, yes. since it's not really 'useful' compared to the Braton.

honestly, Brandal should have a 10% Crit Chance. make it cool, yo. an automatic weapon that has decent Crits? that's still relatively uncovered material. 

i like that it's more of a marksman weapon than Braton, but just that doesn't set it apart from the original model. 

 

watch out guise his account is 9 days older then the other dudes so he must be more right.

[PaperAlien]

Shotgun? Long range? Yeah let's just throw out every sniper weapon. Who needs specialization. Let's just have one weapon that does it all.

*ahem* Brakk *ahem* Acrid.

[marelooke]

And what you're describing is typical of RPG style games. Just saying. :/

 

Sure you mean "typical of MMO-style games", there is very little RPG in most MMOs (which is why most aren't referred to as MMORPGs anymore to start with...)

 

Sue me for being "old" (no I'm not :P) and bitter (I am ;) ) about MMOs ruining my RPG experience.

Edited November 14, 2013 by marelooke

[taiiat]

watch out guise his account is 9 days older then the other dudes so he must be more right.

watch out, this guy can completely talk about something unrelated to have an excuse to make a post.

 

he said i haven't been around long, but he didn't look at the public information, i pointed out that was not the case. 

is the 9 days important? certainly not. but in the event he still did not read the quick information on people, i showed the age of my own account in comparison to his own. 

 

That's dependent on whether they're doing a damage overhaul on all of the weapons however the addition of a new shotgun should.

well, we can hope that Digital Extremes is. the preliminary changes we've been shown, seem like we're going in that direction. if that is in fact the case, i completely agree with this method. is it the best? we don't know, but it sounds good, it's worth a shot. 

it's also more in depth and engaging than combat is now, so it's for the better.

[Cwierz]

uh. wut?

Hek  has 4 barrels, and fires 7 pellets. mfw i try to understand how four tubes firing one pellet, equals 7. 

 

i won't discount it, but that makes no sense. 

well, the ideal example, SWraith - it didn't need to be as insane as it is, it's not that SWraith needed to be even close to what it is now, more that Strun was relatively meh to use to start with. ideally, Strun should've been rebalanced a bit to make it a little better, then SWraith a decent, though overall somewhat minor, upgrade over. 

 

Strun could have been 13*10, and Crits 15/200%, SWraith could have been 15*10, and Crits 20/200%.

20 extra damage would already be a pretty good upgrade. and the nudge up on Crits. 

 

 

on topic:

even if Hek was effective at midrange (which is what it exists for, isn't it? to be usable at midrange?), it would still pale compared to Sniper rifles and other more effective long range weapons.

because despite all it's 'awesomeness', Hek has a pretty good amount of spread. at medium range, only ~50% of the pellets will hit the target at all, let alone  hit a weakpoint. so it's not like Hek would be outperforming a long range weapon, by far. just be usable there. 

 

Meh,I agree. In it's current state it is generally outpreformed by the sobek, and it's lack of profficiency the longer it goes doesn't help. This may sound ludicrous but I wonder how no damage falloff would affect this gun?

and of course, damage 2.0 is coming pretty soon. Maybe this thread will convince DE to give it a bit of a buff. 

I also can't help but feel that it fires exorbitantly slow, that could also do with some looking at as well. 

[LukeAura]

Strun wraith is dispraportionate in the amount worked for it to the power gained. Being event based there is no excuse for such a huge power creep, same thing with the brakk, and the svandal.

Well, I think the idea is that you have to do a little more than the average you need to do to obtain the event weapon. Therefore it should be stronger than regular. 

That being said, 20 minutes wasn't hard to achieve. 

Nor was 100 invasion runs(well, it kind of was, but not the good kind of hard.)

It's more now that we have to provide/suggest appropriate challenges that we deem worthy for the power of the rewards we receive for completing them. 

[Ventura_Highway]

watch out guise his account is 9 days older then the other dudes so he must be more right.

 

Ad hominem? Oh dear, that immediately validates his points.

 

Why aren't you upboating this good sir, fellow ninjas?

[Cwierz]

Ad hominem? Oh dear, that immediately validates his points.

 

Why aren't you upboating this good sir, fellow ninjas?

#more irrelevant posts.

[taiiat]

Meh,I agree. In it's current state it is generally outpreformed by the sobek, and it's lack of profficiency the longer it goes doesn't help. This may sound ludicrous but I wonder how no damage falloff would affect this gun?

and of course, damage 2.0 is coming pretty soon. Maybe this thread will convince DE to give it a bit of a buff. 

I also can't help but feel that it fires exorbitantly slow, that could also do with some looking at as well. 

>:D

i could count the Tenno which actually realize Sobeks' power on one hand. 

 

no damage falloff... would be bad. it would be old Shotguns all over again, heh. 

Hek could simply have Damage falloff that starts another 10m from where it currently does, that should stretch Hek out a lot further in range, but a reasonable amount for effective range. 

 

Hek doesn't need a buff. on paper almost every weapon is well balanced. but in game that drastically changes. we don't need buffs and nerfs, we need balancing. the things people generally consider to be part of 'buffs' and 'nerfs', are not really healthy for a game. 

 

edit:

also, Hek feels like a reasonable firerate for the type of gun it's supposed to be. not necessarily what it is, but what it is supposed to be, yes.

Edited November 15, 2013 by taiiat

[Brimir]

Hek definitely needs a buff. The drawbacks are too great in the face of it's supposed advantages. Sobek beats it any day of the week. There's just no competition between the two at all. Then add Strun Wraith and the as-of-yet hypothetical Tenno Double-Barrel Shotgun... If Soma has taught us anything, it is going to further widen the gap.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Brimir

[Cwierz]

>:D

i could count the Tenno which actually realize Sobeks' power on one hand. 

 

no damage falloff... would be bad. it would be old Shotguns all over again, heh. 

Hek could simply have Damage falloff that starts another 10m from where it currently does, that should stretch Hek out a lot further in range, but a reasonable amount for effective range. 

 

Hek doesn't need a buff. on paper almost every weapon is well balanced. but in game that drastically changes. we don't need buffs and nerfs, we need balancing. the things people generally consider to be part of 'buffs' and 'nerfs', are not really healthy for a game. 

 

edit:

also, Hek feels like a reasonable firerate for the type of gun it's supposed to be. not necessarily what it is, but what it is supposed to be, yes.

Presuming that DE has a calculation that detirmines damage falloff I think the change you suggested could easily be implemented.

 

I also feel that a increase in base damage is due, to many other shotguns fire so fast and so hard that the hek is just constantly being pushed back over and over, and the fact that other weapons can run crits makes the hek seem useless.

I am a loyal Hek User, still using the one I got from U7, it has been forma'd twice. It has maxed mods, and is awaiting another 2 forma to fit the last mod for it on.

[taiiat]

I also feel that a increase in base damage is due, to many other shotguns fire so fast and so hard that the hek is just constantly being pushed back over and over, and the fact that other weapons can run crits makes the hek seem useless.

 

well, i rather feel all weapons in Warframe should have viable Crits. clearly some weapons will be more tuned for Crits than others, but 2.5 and 5% for Crit Chances sounds really horrible to me. might as well be 0%, seriously. 

a weapon like a Braton should have a 5% Crit Chance, atleast. burst weapons, 10%.

 

so, Hek should have usable Crits, sure. it's more of a powerhouse cannon rather than a spammy gun, so that seems to fit Crits more than an automatic weapon normally does. 

Shotgun Crit mods do really need to be ramped up though. and yes, that would mean rebalancing all of the Shotgun Crit stats. but we desperately need it. those mods have such low boosts that the difference between the normal Chances and Damages for Crits is SO low that they just don't feel any different when you're shooting. 

if those boosts from the mods were larger, we'd  have more playroom on the actual Crit stats of weapons. instead of Shotguns being basically, either it's 20% and it's good, or it's lower than 20%, and it's useless. 

7.5, 10, and 15% should all be usable factors for Crits. 5% too, though it's more or less a stat for a gun that "doesn't Crit". 

 

once again, 2.5% is a joke, it shouldn't exist. 5% should be the minimum. 

 

 

Hek should have higher than average damage, but i'm not sure it should be the highest. i can understand a Shotgun such as that dual barrel coming up to be the end all for over the top Alpha Damage, and SWraith being a close range headchopper. 

 

since Hek wants to be usable at midrange (not necessarily powerful, but enough damage per shot to not just be a waste of ammo), it can't really have super high damage. 

adding usable Crit stats would probably be enough to give Hek it's niche and edge provided it also gets a change on when the damage falloff starts. 

[LukeAura]

Well, that's it, I'm going to go get a Hek now just to see what's exactly disappointing about it. 

[Cwierz]

Well, that's it, I'm going to go get a Hek now just to see what's exactly disappointing about it. 

It is not disappointing, it is fun as hell to use, BUT, for being tied with the Sobek for highest mastery rank and raw resource requirement it certainly isn't anything to write home about. Hell, Sobek, Boar Prime, and the Strun Wraith all outclass it. And there are only 5 (atm) accessible shotguns, ranking it fourth, while it is supposed to be a unique boss weapon that used to be the highest mastery gun with the most power. This is just asking for some range back. In my eyes though, it could use with more damage simply because of its painfully low firing rate and clip size that prevent it from ever being as good as the three I just mentioned in killing capability.

[Spearfish]

I stopped playing during the reign of King Hek, and joined back in U10 and was disappointed. Though back then everyone was waving the nerf signs at it. Hek got what was coming. It's an old weapon, from a time passed. I tried to mod it for 50+ level enemy runs but ammo becomes an issue. So yeah I feel as though the weapon has run its course.

 

Mind you though, it's still a monster close range. But at close range it comes down to clip size which limits it.

 

Still not sure whether I want to see Hek restored to former glory or not.

[xenapan]

Stronger guns can be a key into harder content, DE just has to take advantage of that. And if they aren't better most of the players past that weapon's tier will simply level it to 30 and trash it.

The problem is.. the game is too damn easy to begin with. introducing "harder" content has basically just been throwing more hp/dps on enemies or nerfing us (vault keys/nightmare)  and neither have worked particularly well. better weapons will only make that worse and make it harder for new players.. not better. 

[Ventura_Highway]

Well, that's it, I'm going to go get a Hek now just to see what's exactly disappointing about it. 

 

It's not disappointing, really. The way I see it is that it's like the aquaman of the shotguns right now.

If I had this gun in real life, that would be way awesome, but the fact is, at this moment, most of the other available shotguns outdo it.

One of those took about 20 minutes to acquire. I probably spent more time hunting for neurodes for the Hek.

[Cwierz]

I stopped playing during the reign of King Hek, and joined back in U10 and was disappointed. Though back then everyone was waving the nerf signs at it. Hek got what was coming. It's an old weapon, from a time passed. I tried to mod it for 50+ level enemy runs but ammo becomes an issue. So yeah I feel as though the weapon has run its course.

 

Mind you though, it's still a monster close range. But at close range it comes down to clip size which limits it.

 

Still not sure whether I want to see Hek restored to former glory or not.

? I take it to t3 missions. It has good ammo efficiency, and it does very nice damage with +Damage +AP +Freeze +Multishot +Blaze +Accelerated Blast +Ammo Stock +Tactical Pump. I recomend you get some nightmare mods, and see what you can do about hells chamber.

[Brimir]

? I take it to t3 missions. It has good ammo efficiency, and it does very nice damage with +Damage +AP +Freeze +Multishot +Blaze +Accelerated Blast +Ammo Stock +Tactical Pump. I recomend you get some nightmare mods, and see what you can do about hells chamber.

 

Put that on Sobek and you'd do much better.

[Cwierz]

Put that on Sobek and you'd do much better.

1. Need some forma for dat

2. Need a catalyst for dat

3. I hate the sobek, it is too spray and pray and it lacks some range usability, my hek can one shot light units up till the very last waves, and cant down anything else in a full clip.

4. I would have to level one

5. I would have to build one

6. The hek needs a buff anyways, your point is irrelevant.

[Brimir]

6. The hek needs a buff anyways, your point is irrelevant.

 

Uhm, no, that confirms my point. There currently isn't a big enough advantage on Hek over the Sobek to warrant the crippling disadvantages it has.

[Nagisawa]

Thing is, it shouldn't be powerful. That's the whole problem with the mentality of the playerbase nowadays.

 

New weapons shouldn't replace or invalidate older ones.

Limited availability(event) items shouldn't invalidate their common counterparts.

Warframe's power progression used to be and should be based on the mod system, not the mastery one.

 

It's this stupid notion that stronger guns will somehow make the game better, or that they have to be better for anyone to buy them, that has lead to the rampant power creep within the game.

Invalidate, no, but if they're not fun to use, what's the point of exclusive weapons?

 

I agree that Shotties need to be buffed.  But then, every single weapon needs to be, because past level 50 it takes too many shots from any weapon, save some exclusives or the Soma, to actually put something, anything down.  Heaven forbid if you're stuck soloing.

 

We keep hearing about Damage 2.0, but we're not seeing anything.

[Cwierz]

We keep hearing about Damage 2.0, but we're not seeing anything.

It is confirmed for U11, same thing with trading.

[Nagisawa]

It is confirmed for U11, same thing with trading.

Believe it when I see it.

[fatpig84]

Again giving it 8 pellets will help it a lot more.

Currently it is only 7 pellets per burst.

 

And bumping it up to 22 damage per pellet is good enough.