No Failure

[Lutesque]

4 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

.  But this is false!  Failure rewards you with knowledge and experience! 

No it doesn't....

It's suppose to but In Warframe's case it does not...

Case in point... I was doing the Gift Of The The Lotus Defense Earlier and Halfway through The Mission Failed Abruptly for no reason....

All I learned is Bug Frame...but I already knew that....

4 hours ago, (PSN)Unstar said:

Plus, this is a video game.  Nothing in it matters. 

I disagree 🤔

4 hours ago, (PSN)Jmazing7 said:

Its a video game, you lose literally nothing from failing a mission.

This is only true if you dont value your Time....

3 hours ago, (PSN)Jmazing7 said:

Dude its a video game, nothing you do is rewarding in any capacity outside of the game so if you're worried about wasting your time I've got some bad news for you.

Also it seems that failing in video games makes you seriously depressed and maybe you need some help.

There's nothing wrong with Him/Her.... You just don't experience games the same way he/she does....

People are different you know... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

3 hours ago, (PSN)Jmazing7 said:

I dunno what to tell you man, seems like you take it way too seriously for it to be any sort of a stress reliever for you.

Ofcourse.... People are going to have varying levels of Attachments to different things... Some take sports seriously....

Others take Rare Coins Seriously....

I take Games Seriously....  Perhaps the world would be a better if everyone cared more about their Experience.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Unstar:

I know so many people who feel this way, and I used to be one of them.  Our society tends to frame failure this way, so I'm not surprised that this is how so many people learn it.  Which is why I'm encouraging you to do what you can to unlearn that, in the space of video games where it's safe to unlearn it.  Regardless of whether you succeed or fail at anything in video games or even life, you are good enough.  It's often a long, bumpy road to get to the place where you really believe that, but it's true!

Thank you for those words.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

There is not really a right or wrong answer or person here. It could just be a preference matter. That being said, many of our preferences aren't so much preferences bu types of pressure, both internalised and externalised. 

I am similar to you in the sense, I like to be careful and efficient. I like to be slow and careful, to maximise efficiency. Especially in multiplayer games. I went through the starchart very slowly as well, and only in solo. I wanted to know, I could do everything on my own. My first Eidolon? Solo, my first Tridolon? Solo. First Profit Taker, first Exploiter, all solo. Its rewarding and validating playstyle. Though, to be honest, its also a bit of an ego thing. When I am playing with others, I hate the idea of being carried or being the "weal link". If I know I can solo a Tridolon, I don't have to worry about failing, if the other 3 people can't contribute or die. 

That being said... we differ greatly on failure. Since I do not view failure as a waste of time, but as a necessary and important balance to growth, self improvement, self reflection, empathy, patience, understanding, critical analysis and... importantly for some, optimisation. In certain situations, I am less a fan of failure, because it can be time wasting and provide little value elsewhere. Like, if I fail to cook a chicken dinner properly, and then fall ill, and spend a week in bed with food poisoning... I have already experienced being ill in bed for a week. There is not much room for growth or learning there. 

That being said, failing elsewhere can be extremely important and valuable. Taking on an Eidolon solo is a risk, because its tougher by yourself, no team mates to rely on, or carry you. I failed a few times, because I didn't quite understand how lures worked, so I killed my first, but didn't capture, stuff like that. MR 30 test, the practice, I succeeded a few times, but also failed. The fails made me anxious, because what if I failed the real thing... so I kept practicing. However, my failed practice runs, are the reasons I succeeded. My failed runs, let me know where I needed to improve, what strengths and weaknesses I needed to accomodate or lean into. I also realised I was putting a lot of internal pressure on myself to succeed. Needed to take a moment to remember its just a game, that I play for fun, and to enjoy. More failure, just means more time enjoying learning mechanics and overcoming challenge, something I sincerely enjoy... so why feel bad? 

Unstar has had some great words of advice in the thread, and a few other replies as well, how we deal with failure and success can be complicated, for internal reasons, and external societal reasons. We shouldn't forget though, that we get to control how we personally feel and view such ideas. Its understandable and natural for many to fear failure, but sometimes that fear of failure creates issues, such as a pressure to succeed, and that pressure can often unsettle us, and make success and failure as opposites, and muddy them. Ironically for myself, being more okay with failure and wanting to understand it, actually really helped me be successful. 

I like to think about it in creative art and science. In both failure is really important, because you need to eliminate variables, false negatives, you need to explore ideas, and see why and how they don't work, and you need to spend a lot of time and effort "failing" in order to refine success. Video games, and your context is different though, like I am not saying you should try and fail every mission lol. Just be honest about whether its a preference, or a fear, because the fear of failure may be robbing you of enjoyment (like testing out new builds for Warframes and weapons, or strategies etc). 

Good luck and take care! 

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 20 Stunden schrieb (PSN)slightconfuzzled:

My first Eidolon? Solo, my first Tridolon? Solo. First Profit Taker, first Exploiter, all solo.

I'm a bit jealous. Because things like Eidolons, Orbs, Rathuum and Index, I only did via matchmaking because I wasn't confident enough to do it solo. Mainly because I wasn't convinced I ahd the right stuff and skill. As I use middle of the road builds and am kinda afraid to min-max and get my builds 'off-balance'.

 

vor 20 Stunden schrieb (PSN)slightconfuzzled:

I do not view failure as a waste of time, but as a necessary and important balance to growth, self improvement, self reflection, empathy, patience, understanding, critical analysis and... importantly for some, optimisation.

I surely lack that patience and my faith in my ability to self-optimize is unstable at best.

 

vor 20 Stunden schrieb (PSN)slightconfuzzled:

sometimes that fear of failure creates issues, such as a pressure to succeed, and that pressure can often unsettle us, and make success and failure as opposites, and muddy them.

I know this happens to me when I do badly, especially at work. I feel like I have to do things flawless, or at least in more 'satisfying' fashion 2nd time around. Because how many 2nd chances do you get before they grow fed up with you?

 

vor 20 Stunden schrieb (PSN)slightconfuzzled:

Ironically for myself, being more okay with failure and wanting to understand it, actually really helped me be successful. 

I did try this approach, be more open to the possibility of messing up and trying again. Tho I ended up falling back into the mindset of try to not fail at all or else things will go downhill fast.

 

vor 20 Stunden schrieb (PSN)slightconfuzzled:

you need to spend a lot of time and effort "failing" in order to refine success.

I often don't see myself as having that luxury of time to do that.

 

vor 20 Stunden schrieb (PSN)slightconfuzzled:

Just be honest about whether its a preference, or a fear,

It definitely is a fear, both irl and in games.

[(PSN)slightconfuzzled]

1 hour ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I'm a bit jealous. Because things like Eidolons, Orbs, Rathuum and Index, I only did via matchmaking because I wasn't confident enough to do it solo. Mainly because I wasn't convinced I ahd the right stuff and skill. As I use middle of the road builds and am kinda afraid to min-max and get my builds 'off-balance'.

 

You don't have to be, but I understand as well. Think about it this way though? My worry about being the weak link, was a bigger and greater worry than my fear of failure. In my head, if I fail solo, thats not as bad, as if I fail with a team? So in this case, I am using two different sources of frustration against each other? 

Also to be clear, I personally also really like helping people. So I am a little bit hypocritical, I don't think other people should worry about struggling with Eidolons, and I am very patient, friendly and nice to people who struggle with game challenges no matter the reason... I just don't extend that philosophy towards myself. However, I do try to remind myself of this, because, its important to let you guard down sometimes and let other people help you. 

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I know this happens to me when I do badly, especially at work. I feel like I have to do things flawless, or at least in more 'satisfying' fashion 2nd time around. Because how many 2nd chances do you get before they grow fed up with you?

 

Yep exactly. I am sorry that this has happened to you, or still happens. It happens to a lot of people in a lot of different situations. Some people can "perform" better when under certain kinds of pressure, but most of what I know about the science around the subject, is that such pressures usually impede the best results in people. Which to many sounds counter intuitive, just in various examples, studies, scenarios etc people work better when they aren't stressed or pressured, and the output they produce reflects this better. Unfortunately though, in practice, people are people, and often pressure and stress each other and ourselves in multiple complicated ways, it can take a lot of time, effort, energy, money, and help from others, support to untangle ourselves from all of that. 

That being said, many situations, where most of the pressure and stress is self induced, internalised mechanisms, can be addressed and helped, the same way, self reflection, empathy for ones self, thinking about what you really actually want etc. Stuff like video games, or hobbies or art, can be helpful because the stakes aren't as high.

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

I often don't see myself as having that luxury of time to do that.

 

That is a very real constraint yes. So often it just comes down to knowing yourself and what you want. 

I personally like doing art, but I am very slow. I know, I would be a better artist, if I learnt to be faster. I will make more errors, but I will learn faster, get better at avoiding such mistakes, remember and use techniques better, develop more techniques, learn better time saving practices, and end up with more art, and better art. However... art materials are expensive, and sometimes I just don't get a lot of time to do art, and just creating the art, is fun to me, in itself... I don't necessarily care about becoming an amazing artist... So I am okay with the personal decision to be a bit slow and not as potentially good a general artist as soon. Also, its a situation, where, it would be relatively easy to change, if my mind changed, as I have stored a bit of art supplies... 

So sometimes its about what we want plus our situation. Like, is there a part of you, that wishes you could care less about failure in Warframe, and experiment more, and do more silly things, that might result in less than ideal results? Like outside of external issues like time restraints? Which do you want more? 

Like in my situation, if art supplies were really easy to come by, and I had an unlimited amount of it, and time, I would probably actually start being faster, and try to go faster, but its just not realistic or necessarily a big priority in my life. Like there are other things, like, I prefer eating and buying games with money too lol. 

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)KyomaSatomi said:

It definitely is a fear, both irl and in games.

 

Yeah thats the part that sucks. I am sorry, you have my sympathies. That makes the situation complicated, because often our fears are complicated and exist because of stuff we don't control or can't influence. I don't want to be too much of a downer though, the main thing is that you aren't "wrong" and lots of people have similar struggles, and worries. Just try to do your best, for yourself, and situations can often change. The fear can lessen over time, and let you do stuff you formerly conditioned yourself not to. 

Good luck and take care! 

[(PSN)Hooligonzo]

I'm not super concerned with failing things, but if I know I'll have a tough time with a Steel Path Star Chart Node, I was typically just patient with it and would wait for it to cycle into the daily Incursions so I could be assured of a group to play with me.  I have upwards of probably 95% of the nodes completed at this point.

But really, I can just try to get a group together for anywhere.  I'll have to do that with Exequias whenever I feel like studying up and knuckling down to clear that node, since the Acolyte fight is pretty rough.

I do recommend having at least different weapon loadouts for the faction you expect to encounter.  It's a stupid hassle, but having a weapon loadout focused on Grineer and one for Corpus has been enough for me to have plenty of wiggle room in a given day of Steel Path play.  Generally the Infested aren't so tanky that I can't just whittle them down for a little longer, but the difference between Grinner and Corpus can be drastic at times.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

Am 6.4.2022 um 22:06 schrieb (PSN)slightconfuzzled:

there a part of you, that wishes you could care less about failure in Warframe, and experiment more

Well, experimentation isn't really something I indulge in. Frequent change to my setup doesn't really compel me. Because I prefer consistency. That's why I can run my frame for a long time without changeing a thing of my loadout or mod setup.

I don't have that understanding for those who constantly switch up their frames, loadouts or mod setups. THis is why I mainly use 2 or 3 frames for pretty much all content.

All that switching between different ways of play or just the change in stats that switching out mods brings; I can only deal with it in moderate doses.

That said, when I hit a wall, I often resort to looking up guides on which frame to use and how to mod it. Which does clash with my disdain of having to rely on others to do the work that I should have done myself. It's not a dealbreaker because it's neccessary at times, but it still stings.

Loops back to that feeling of not being good enough to get by with my own skills. I mean, I even get irritated to a degree if my coworkers give me advice on how to do things better. That's not meant as scrutiny aginst them as they do mean well, it's more about me not knowing this earlier, instead needing others to tell me how to improve.

[(PSN)KyomaSatomi]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb (PSN)Hooligonzo:

I was typically just patient with it and would wait for it to cycle into the daily Incursions so I could be assured of a group to play with me. 

This could be a solution. Tho knowing me, it probably clashes with my dislike for being carried (despite this being quite common in co-op or PvP environments) or having others do my work for you.