Incarnon Warframe

[quxier]

1 hour ago, chaotea said:

23 hours ago, quxier said:

Except maybe Innodem that activate "aerial attack" all weapons are just faster, stronger and better (Fellarx will be changed). Even with Innodem it's not "completely different style". For me it's just "ugh... I need to do X to unlock/do stuffs".

Probably many frames have "different playstyles". For example lots of people use Xaku for it's walking turret (cast Grasp of Lohk - 2nd, stop time with Vast untime - 4th) and let it kill stuffs (maybe with some help like casting Gaze). On other hand you can use "disarming style. Have like ~75% duration, cast 2nd to disarm enemies, 1st (void proc) is used to semi cc enemies. Finish disarmed enemies with other methods. Does it mean Xaku is incarnon frame because it offers entirely different playstyles? I don't think so.

 

You've miss understood my point here. Xaku isnt an 'incarnon style warframe' as far as im concerned. His kit is there, and while he has synergy, his kit remains the same, and you just choose what to do with it. His playstyle doesnt change, just your playstyle does when you decide how you use him. Sevegoth however has his 4th, where once activated all his abilities act differntly. Thats what I mean by the definition of what 'incarnon' would b like for a WF.

I think it's the same as Xaku.

Sevagoth: gains meter via killing (and marking enemies). Xaku: gains "meter" (energy) via killing and other methods.

Sevagoth: changes styles via pressing 4th (at full meter). Xaku: changes styles via activating (and keeping on) 4th.

You can argue that 2 abilities (1st & 3rd) are the same with Xaku. However Shadow 3rd ability is very similar to Sevagoth's 1st or 2nd (debuffing).

[chaotea]

1 hour ago, quxier said:

I think it's the same as Xaku.

Sevagoth: gains meter via killing (and marking enemies). Xaku: gains "meter" (energy) via killing and other methods.

Sevagoth: changes styles via pressing 4th (at full meter). Xaku: changes styles via activating (and keeping on) 4th.

You can argue that 2 abilities (1st & 3rd) are the same with Xaku. However Shadow 3rd ability is very similar to Sevagoth's 1st or 2nd (debuffing).

But if you're right with you're assesment, then EVERY warframe could be considered to be an incarnon warframe. Or at least any warframe whom have an ability that provides an continiuos effect.

The point is that xaku, even with his 4th active, recieves no functionality changes to his other abilities or playstyle. )If you considder that his dodge chance buff is just part of the 4ths ability, then the only benifit the other abilitys get is the infinate duration. But this doesnt change what the abilities do.

As fore the 'gains meter' thing, thats not a inherantly 'incarnon' trait. Alot of frames and weapons have requirements for secondary fire modes or abilities that require a charge based pre-requisit. As for the idea that Xaku fufills this requirement by gaining energy, thats rediculous. You may aswell say that every gun is ancarnon because they gain ammo 'meter'.

[quxier]

2 hours ago, chaotea said:

The point is that xaku, even with his 4th active, recieves no functionality changes to his other abilities or playstyle. )If you considder that his dodge chance buff is just part of the 4ths ability, then the only benifit the other abilitys get is the infinate duration. But this doesnt change what the abilities do.

It's about being able to disarm not damage reduction. When I'm at <100% duration I can more or less use GoL to disarm enemies without too much waiting. When I activate 4th I stop being able to disarm enemies but it lets me hold guns for long time (I just need to reactivate 4th). That's changes a lot about this ability.

 

2 hours ago, chaotea said:

As fore the 'gains meter' thing, thats not a inherantly 'incarnon' trait. Alot of frames and weapons have requirements for secondary fire modes or abilities that require a charge based pre-requisit. As for the idea that Xaku fufills this requirement by gaining energy, thats rediculous. You may aswell say that every gun is ancarnon because they gain ammo 'meter'.

Sure, gaining some sort of meters is not important. I just wanted to compare 2 frames.

To be honest "incarnon traits" are somehow vague. I think even frames like Sevagoth is more incarnon than incarnon weapons.

What Incarnon weapons do or have:

- Some kind of meters - that's not important, it's just more nuisance - as you said

- Being able to change styles - many frames has that

- Different styles - that's debatable. Guns are just weaker or slower. That's not different style but just "nerf base then unlock original form" kind of stupid thing. Innodem unlocks "aerial attacks" but that's not completely different style just addition. Then you have perks that are weak or doesn't work (useless stuffs like100% jump is like ~30% OR slide to get combo - hard to do). I'm not sure if any melee change styles so radically. Maybe Praedos combo on slams but I don't think there is that much change.

- Perk system - being able to change some aspect of gear without modding system is "somehow unique". We had colors for frame like Equinox. However it just changes starting frame. For infused ability color changes powers. We have helmets with stats. We have Helminth infussion & invigorations. Infusion changes one ability and it's expensive compared to free Incarnon perks. Invigoration is semi random (you can use 10th invigoration to override frames) and it last only for week. Perks lasts till you change it. Invigoration & Perks have not too many unique "features". So both systems (Incarnon Perks & Invigorations) lacks in diversity.

[BroDutt]

Well turn out DE implemented the incarnon evolution buff idea as Archon Shard, and its permanent buff as long as we install the shard.

 

[chaotea]

On 2022-08-26 at 3:46 PM, quxier said:

It's about being able to disarm not damage reduction. When I'm at <100% duration I can more or less use GoL to disarm enemies without too much waiting. When I activate 4th I stop being able to disarm enemies but it lets me hold guns for long time (I just need to reactivate 4th). That's changes a lot about this ability.

Yes, it changes how you use the ability, but it doesnt change the ability. The ability, as its function is described, is exactly the same and doesnt change. How you use it does. Having more range lets me have more guns and more firepower, but doesnt change the functionality of the ability.