So... That Nova Nerf...

[-Himari-]

Dude. Molecular Prime needs a nerf?

 

Two words: Rhino Stomp.

 

I can second this, at least, for the most part. I can understand the idea behind giving Nova a nerf but that won't solve much. It'll solve the complaints of nerfing her for those that are upset at her power but this is her design.

 

Her intention to be honest.

[S.Fayden]

While I agree that nerfing her ultimate would be a good a idea, it's not the only way too balance her out. Currently the biggest problem I have with Nova is that she doesn't seem to have any weakness whatsoever. She's the second fastest frame, she has a decent amount of armor/shields/health and she has one of the highest damage abilities in the game. Because of this she outclasses a lot of other frames. You could nerf MP to fix this, but I was thinking that maybe you should focus on fixing her durability instead. Nova can still have a really high damage ult, but her durability will be low enough that she can't just casually go around tapping 4 to kill everything on the map (you still could, but it would require skill to do so).

[taiiat]

You could nerf MP to fix this, but I was thinking that maybe you should focus on fixing her durability instead. Nova can still have a really high damage ult, but her durability will be low enough that she can't just casually go around tapping 4 to kill everything on the map (you still could, but it would require skill to do so).

i can Solo Corpus Defense with Nova, without even having MPrime equipped. and was done on many occasions, before Corrupted mods, or any of the currently controversial weapons. i was probably using Dera and Gremlins for such occasions.

how do i do it? i don't get shot, then my survivability isn't a factor. 

 

using the same strategy on other frames doesn't work anywhere near as well. the Pod will get destroyed. 

Edited November 18, 2013 by taiiat

[S.Fayden]

i can Solo Corpus Defense with Nova, without even having MPrime equipped. and was done on many occasions, before Corrupted mods, or any of the currently controversial weapons. i was probably using Dera and Gremlins for such occasions.

how do i do it? i don't get shot, then my survivability isn't a factor. 

Well even if you don't ever get shot, most other players will.....alot. It annoys me to no end how any buffoon who has killed Raptor a few times can get Nova and make grinding mobile defense mission even more boring than they already are. It would be a nice comprise if Nova's durability got severely nerfed. They can still deal a lot of damage, and I get to sit back and laugh as they obliterated ever few minutes.

Edited November 18, 2013 by S.Fayden

[Valiant]

Quote

...It's not a flame war. We're all having a discussion here.

 

She needs balancing out so her other powers seem just as interesting instead of it seeming to be an one-power party. The fact that she can blow a whole room into pieces isn't a great sign. ME3's adepts had balance. They were very strong yet they weren't so overpowering and actually allowed for effective teamwork. It seems the only point in having a team with a Nova is so the Nova can either be covered, revived (you really do get overeager ones) or just for another Nova. 

 

'End game' though? We shouldn't even be near end game yet apparently. Regardless, that doesn't justify having such control and strength as Nova does. For lack of a better example, ME3 again had 'end game' but that didn't allow for such ultimates or strengths. It might have had some weird additions for the final DLC but it wasn't quite absurd. 

 

To an extent one could be saying allowing the Nova to carry on this way and clear out a room without barely any aid from the teammates coming up behind is essentially indirect and permitted leeching, which people seem to get quite angry and personal about on this game. So 'leeching' is effectively permitted when the Nova is running in obliterating everything, however, when it's not and is instead the leeching as we typically know it is in play - and there's a possible gameplay struggle/challenge involved - it is suddenly a bad thing? 

 

I use struggle/challenge VERY loosely and tentatively here as it seems people took my 'challenge' comment out of proportion. 

Edited November 18, 2013 by Naith

[MageMeat]

The review/analysis of frames is ongoing and will include Nova. Have already had to clean up thread a bit due to derailment. OP, I suggest you amend your OT to expand on your feedback of Nova.

That new avatar of yours is terrifying, to say the least.

 

On topic, if Nova were nerfed, it would be completely reasonable to just nerf the range on Molecular Prime, if at all.

So I don't think Nova needs a nerf.

[Yg-Dosst]

She is meant for end game criteria. She does not need a nerf.

 

She needs a  Mastery Rank Requirement.

 

If Soma, Supra, & even Rhino have one, why not Nova?

 

This is where I stop, I don't need a flame war in the community.

 

IMO Rhino doesn't need to have that Mastery Requirement.

Warframe's shouldn't be tied down to "Tiers"

That's akin to saying that certain League of Legends hero's shouldn't be played once you get the chance to play better ones.

It's just wrong and goes against the grain of the game, being detrimental to game-play.

 

Weapons can get away with this because the gameplay value of them rarely changes over the course of the "Tiers" of weaponry and the difficulty of the enemies. You just simply use more and stronger bullets.

 

As Warframes contain 80% of the tact of this game in the unique flavoring of their abilities, invalidating some depending on how long you've played is basically wasting the time and effort put into that Warframe. Even Excalibur is useful at higher tiers with the utility/mobility of Slash Dash, Super Jump, and Radial Blind.

[S.Fayden]

IMO Rhino doesn't need to have that Mastery Requirement.

Warframe's shouldn't be tied down to "Tiers"

That's akin to saying that certain League of Legends hero's shouldn't be played once you get the chance to play better ones.

It's just wrong and goes against the grain of the game, being detrimental to game-play.

 

Weapons can get away with this because the gameplay value of them rarely changes over the course of the "Tiers" of weaponry and the difficulty of the enemies. You just simply use more and stronger bullets.

 

As Warframes contain 80% of the tact of this game in the unique flavoring of their abilities, invalidating some depending on how long you've played is basically wasting the time and effort put into that Warframe. Even Excalibur is useful at higher tiers with the utility/mobility of Slash Dash, Super Jump, and Radial Blind.

^This.

I probably wouldn't mind Nova so much if she didn't render other frames (particularly Saryn) completely useless in comparison.

[WhiteCopain]

Go away.

Nova does not need nerfed. If you nerf her only good power, M.Prime, then you void all reason to use her at all.

What about Frost? Why do you not complain about him? Because he helps you? Well guess what, SO DOES NOVA! By saving your &#! and giving you EXP for it.

 

Frost doesn't hit 4 and kill one enemy to auto clear waves up until ~19 on T3 Def. Though I'd agree that I want frost to be changed. I hate that you HAVE to bring one for T3 def because the stuff dies so fast and that that and his 4 key are only decent abilities.

 

 

If you want challenge just go to NM mode on solo. 

 

Don't want her in your missions? Be glad she was not so myriad in the inventory like she was.

 

Something called invite your friends, which is what I do if I wanted to have specific assistance.

So basically don't play the online game in online mode or don't meet new people. That's a fun way and goes a long way to fixing the overarching problem of press 4 to clear stage.

 

 

Nova does not need a nerf. Only reason I find her annoying is that people love to spam their 4 on Kappa and every other hotspot for farming exp. Then again, the same can be said about Rhino's 4, and no one's shouting to get him nerfed.

 

Nova is very much a glass cannon. None of her abilities instantly kill enemies, and none of them offer crowd control and survivability mechanics in a viable way. She's dangerous, but she's easy to kill, and is very dependent on other frames to back her up in terms of keeping her alive. I'm fine with her as she is. 

 

Along the same line, I really don't think nerfs should be a thing. Power creep is very real, but that doesn't mean that newer warframes should be matched to the older ones. Rather, rework older frames that need a rework to be as fun to play.

 

Just my two cents.

 

Portal basically auto kills things that walk into it since enemies never come out the other side.

 

If you just keep making frames more and more powerful without making the enemies more powerful the game becomes pointless. I'm not going to purposely limit myself and play solo and only play one certain mission so I can enjoy the game. I want to play to my limit with a bunch of other random players and not just instantly clear anything without an issue do to someone pressing 4

[Drifter11]

Yep, she needs a nerf.

[EdBazokatone]

Somebody has to do something about this madness!

(screenshot)

The 3 of them were too busy measuring di*** trying to get more kills than the other (everyone knows that kind of players), too far from the console. 

Anyway I was trying to defend the console as best as I could with my unranked vectis, but the enemies kept coming and coming and at some point, there were too many of them for me to handle, again, with my unranked vectis.

All of a sudden my snow globe ended and without wasting any time to recast it, I charged towards them with my powerfull machete wraith to end them quickly, but it was too late. The console was destroyed and I was so sad we failed the mision... so... sad...

[sewens]

Yes, lets nerf effective frames.

[Buzkyl]

The only reason i can see Molecular prime getting nerf is when Armor 2.0 comes out and things have less armor Current MP will decimate everything.

 

Though what i would like is that when a monster dies, they damage everything  with a small amount that damages the surrounding, the damage increases each explosion the further it travels.

 

 

Meaning the monsters at the start of the chain get damage less than those at the end of the chain (which take much MUCH more damage as a result of chaining).

[michaelwii]

Frost doesn't hit 4 and kill one enemy to auto clear waves up until ~19 on T3 Def. Though I'd agree that I want frost to be changed. I hate that you HAVE to bring one for T3 def because the stuff dies so fast and that that and his 4 key are only decent abilities.

 

 

So basically don't play the online game in online mode or don't meet new people. That's a fun way and goes a long way to fixing the overarching problem of press 4 to clear stage.

 

 

 

Portal basically auto kills things that walk into it since enemies never come out the other side.

 

If you just keep making frames more and more powerful without making the enemies more powerful the game becomes pointless. I'm not going to purposely limit myself and play solo and only play one certain mission so I can enjoy the game. I want to play to my limit with a bunch of other random players and not just instantly clear anything without an issue do to someone pressing 4

 

Yes, Portal auto kills everything that walks into it. But how I can count the number of times I've seen a Nova use Warp to kill a mob. It's a mass fast-travel at best. And even if it does auto-kill, the baddie still needs to walk into it. None of her abilities instantly kill/neutralize, like bastille or stomp or a stun from Radial Disarm. All her abilities are reliant on some other event happening, like one mob dying to set off a chain or a mob walking through a Warp.

 

Yes, I'm a huge supporter of an AI rework. In an ideal world, power creep would barely be an issue, and baddies wouldn't just be bullet sponges and would have interesting mechanics or behaviours. But this is not an ideal world, and Warframe is far from being an ideal game. Thus, power creep is a thing. And AI is bad. So rather than attempt to change 2 things the developers have been quiet about (until the slight mention at stream 18), I propose the developers manage it through the one thing (that's relevant) they have been vocal about, which are buff/nerf cycles. 

 

 

tldr: AI changes are just around the corner. 

[ValhaHazred]

tldr: AI changes are just around the corner.

But not right around the corner :P

[123Olympian]

...It's not a flame war. We're all having a discussion here.

 

She needs balancing out so her other powers seem just as interesting instead of it seeming to be an one-power party. The fact that she can blow a whole room into pieces isn't a great sign. ME3's adepts had balance. They were very strong yet they weren't so overpowering and actually allowed for effective teamwork. It seems the only point in having a team with a Nova is so the Nova can either be covered, revived (you really do get overeager ones) or just for another Nova. 

 

'End game' though? We shouldn't even be near end game yet apparently. Regardless, that doesn't justify having such control and strength as Nova does. For lack of a better example, ME3 again had 'end game' but that didn't allow for such ultimates or strengths. It might have had some weird additions for the final DLC but it wasn't quite absurd. 

 

To an extent one could be saying allowing the Nova to carry on this way and clear out a room without barely any aid from the teammates coming up behind is essentially indirect and permitted leeching, which people seem to get quite angry and personal about on this game. So 'leeching' is effectively permitted when the Nova is running in obliterating everything, however, when it's not and is instead the leeching as we typically know it is in play - and there's a possible gameplay struggle/challenge involved - it is suddenly a bad thing? 

 

I use struggle/challenge VERY loosely and tentatively here as it seems people took my 'challenge' comment out of proportion. 

It's easy for a nice conversation like so to become a hard flame war.

Edited November 19, 2013 by 123Olympian

[Kibbols123]

When is it coming?

Can't have people forget about it's necessity. 

 

EDIT:

Really Molecular Prime is the only ability with the necessity of a tweak. Too good at what it does, considering it can do everything all the other frames ultimate abilities do, all in one package.  

 

EDIT:

I love this community! 

 

 

 

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Leave. My. Nova. Alone.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Kibbols123

[Kibbols123]

While I agree that nerfing her ultimate would be a good a idea, it's not the only way too balance her out. Currently the biggest problem I have with Nova is that she doesn't seem to have any weakness whatsoever. She's the second fastest frame, she has a decent amount of armor/shields/health and she has one of the highest damage abilities in the game. Because of this she outclasses a lot of other frames. You could nerf MP to fix this, but I was thinking that maybe you should focus on fixing her durability instead. Nova can still have a really high damage ult, but her durability will be low enough that she can't just casually go around tapping 4 to kill everything on the map (you still could, but it would require skill to do so).

 

 

Not really on the health/shields. Compared to others, those aren't that high. She can get downed/killed pretty fast.

[Kibbols123]

Frost doesn't hit 4 and kill one enemy to auto clear waves up until ~19 on T3 Def. Though I'd agree that I want frost to be changed. I hate that you HAVE to bring one for T3 def because the stuff dies so fast and that that and his 4 key are only decent abilities.

 

The "auto clear" stops after wave 5 - 7... Not 19, nowhere close.

[KuzkinaMat]

Look, at high levels what defensive abilities she have to protect herself against with? all other warframe have a escape button thing on tight situation, not her, on the top of that she dies quickly on few hits in high with only running and MPrime to protect herself. Nova could use wormhole but that requires quikthinking esp when surrounded esp if you know youll die in a few hits.

 

Look at Exalibur's Slash Dash(on lower levels) orMag's Pull or Phino Stomp + range are they not OP ? and those warframes had high survivability, not Nova.

 

As the other person said, Nova MPrime is reliant on a death of an enemy, Look at the last few waves of T3 Def, If youll are using  crappy weapons,  i doubt that youll trigger Mprime and not all primed enemies die so yea.

 

To most people if one warframe gets most kills, esp Nova which is not directly killing them  = OP, ranged Rhino stomp are fine...== Warframe is not epeen competition like CoD. ==

 

What youll not happy with having her to help on longer survival runs?, oh right you want to showcase your skeelz.

Edited November 19, 2013 by KuzkinaMat

[Cpl_Facehugger]

It would be a nice comprise if Nova's durability got severely nerfed.

Nova is already the least durable frame in the game owing to her weak shields and lack of useful defense powers.

[taiiat]

Meaning the monsters at the start of the chain get damage less than those at the end of the chain (which take much MUCH more damage as a result of chaining).

that's actually sort've interesting.

 

provided the Explosion range isn't too big though, i'm thinking like Dominoes, they'd need to be not too far away from each other in order to get hit by other Explosions.

 

Not really on the health/shields. Compared to others, those aren't that high. She can get downed/killed pretty fast.

The "auto clear" stops after wave 5 - 7... Not 19, nowhere close.

i almost never die as Nova. even running around in high level Grineer Survival. why? i avoid getting shot in the first place.

 

that depends, if you cluster enemies up in a group, wiping entire waves is a lot easier. 

also, please learn to edit posts. there's no need to spam the thread.

 

 

or Mag's Pull or Rhino Stomp + range are they not OP ? and those warframes had high survivability, not Nova.

those have issues too, yes! but separate threads for each Warframe. 

 

What youll not happy with having her to help on longer survival runs?, oh right you want to showcase your skeelz.

this argument is more suited for players who wish Nova to stay as is, so they can show off their 'skeelz' by pressing one button and waiting.

[Kibbols123]

I'm just done with this thread already... it's obvious that people don't realize how weak Nova's shields and health are (which was the point of M Prime to begin with)

[DaveC]

Nova is already the least durable frame in the game owing to her weak shields and lack of useful defense powers.

I keep hearing this and the "glass cannnon" comment. You realise that Nova has the same health and shield as Vauban, but Nova has MORE armour and a much higher movement speed. I don't know why people keep distorting the facts?

Vauban is less durable than Nova with less armour and much, much slower movement speed.....2 things that help a frame stay alive.

[SanityRobot]

this is being ignorant, no Nova use MPrime just to show off thyre skeelz, only those butthurt people that they cant get all the keelz on a mission even though they mostly die on longer survival runs.

 

Mostly the fact that "longer survival runs" and "high level defense" are fueled entirely by Nova.

 

MPrime sets the bar arbitrarily high. Even accepting that after level 100, she doesn't instantly kill everything, she still doubles every single point of damage that anyone does as well as slowing enemies down to a crawl.

 

Hell, even if MPrime did zero damage, and had it's debuff halved, it would still be leagues ahead of most other skills in the game.