Pockolock Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Hello! I assume you've read the title of the topic so I'll start with I really like frost. He's one of the frames you can grind start building first when starting the game and I liked the way he can be fashioned and the theme of his kit. But as time flies by the age of his kit is really starting to show. I'm sure there are people who will disagree with the additions i will be proposing and consider him fine as is and that's fair. Everyone has their own preferred playstyle. I'm hoping these ideas won't affect your playstyle for frost like doing crazy globe push damage and just generally improve frost. I've read a a lot of the posts here about frost rework ideas and checked out Brozime's Frost rework video and took note of what i can include that would be hopefully alright with everyone. Please tell me how these ideas can be tweaked or balanced. Thank you! Frost Rework FOCUS: Modernize Frost's kit without taking too much from his actual abilities. Some added mechanics while also not giving the animation team more work (or a at least not too much) PASSIVE Enemies proced with cold or frozen enemies acquire damage vulnerability to all sources including abilities. Enemies at 1 cold proc receives 5% more damage at a cap of 25% damage when at 5+ cold procs. Frozen Enemies are treated as having 5+ cold procs. This can stack up to 50% damage vulnerability if enemies are both frozen and proced with 5+ cold procs ABILITY 1 - Freeze Increase Ice patch radius to 10 meters. Enemies that enter and already inside the ice patch get 3 cold procs and build up overtime. Popping Snowglobe with Freeze creates double the ice patch radius of a normal freeze (10m -> 20m) with 5 cold procs caught in the radius ABILITY 2 - Ice Wave + Increased Damage + When Frost and allies step on the ice patch created by Ice wave, they get a buff that gives knockdown immunity, a sprint speed increase and reduced friction or increased slide with a base duration of 25 seconds (affected by mods). Duration can be refreshed when stepping on a ice patch created by frost's abilities. ABILITY 3 - Snow Globe Snow globe gets a added mechanic which was originally from the augment Icy Avalanche. Frost and allies that enter or reenter the globe receive a Damage reduction (Frost 75%-90% and allies 50%-75%) as well as a cold status immunity with a base duration of 25 seconds (affected by mods) which can also be refreshed when entering the snowglobe or stepping on ice patches created by Frost's Abilities. Damage reduction does not apply to Heat procs. ABILITY 4 - Avalanche Perfect as is due to the recent armor strip changes by pablo and the team and the base armor reduction of avalanche bumped from 40% base to 60%. My Suggestion here is that Avalance gets a 5 meter increase when cast inside snowglobe, but it can do fine without the added synergy. Additional stat change suggestions Frost's base armor increase from 300 to 400-500 and reduce shields to benefit his globe more Frost's base energy pool increase Explanation: For his passive - I believe a lot would agree that his passive is not very consistent. Especially with such a low chance of 20% to only MELEE enemies. An alternative is to have Biting Frost as the new passive instead For Freeze - Aside from popping globes and the Freeze Force augment which is situational at best. I found Freeze to be quite lacking and as Pablo mentioned, Single target abilities are not the play. hitting an enemy directly would still freeze that target, its just that now the ice patch around the frozen target was increased to affect more enemies. - If it was possible to change anything visually, it'd be neat if it Freeze looked like Statis in Dead Space. But with a icy mist surrounding the created ice patch For Ice Wave - Visually I really like ice wave, but in the damage department at level 50, or even 40+, is quite lacking. So aside from the increased damage (base damage increase, passive, armor stripped from avalanche) I also added utility as it gives it more value as a helminth ability. For Snow globe - Similar Frames like Limbo and Gara who specialize in the same area as Frost have their own way of survivability outside their wall/globe. Icy Avalanche would've been the solution but it does not scale very well. Especially when it does not stack nor is affected by mods such as adaptation etc. So why not have this potentially good mechanic and place it into snow globe? For the sub passive on refreshing duration - I'm not sure whether y'all would agree with the way the duration of these new buffs can be refreshed, but i thought it'd be justified because of Frost's low energy pool(if they dont plan on increasing it) so you'd only have to cast the expensive abilities once or twice and cast the less expensive abilities to keep the buff going. All 4 abilities would create ice patches Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosoMalvadoNG Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 Personally the only things I would change about Frost right now would be his 1, 2 and his passive. The 3 its fine and the 4 with the latest update is beautiful. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockolock Posted September 17, 2022 Author Share Posted September 17, 2022 That's fair, His 4 has been doing wonders for me as well with lower strength than usual and corrosive projection. Have a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhkretor Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 ... What made you think that there are only 3 frost mains out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosoMalvadoNG Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 hace 52 minutos, Uhkretor dijo: ... What made you think that there are only 3 frost mains out there? haha I think he says it rhetorically implying that we are few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhkretor Posted September 17, 2022 Share Posted September 17, 2022 ... hmm... 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pockolock Posted September 18, 2022 Author Share Posted September 18, 2022 8 hours ago, Uhkretor said: ... What made you think that there are only 3 frost mains out there? 8 hours ago, CosoMalvadoNG said: haha I think he says it rhetorically implying that we are few. Definitely rhetorical, wouldn't mind seeing more of us. Old Man Frost needs some luv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 All of frost's issues come from him needing armor and having shield. That and his bad passive and 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said: All of frost's issues come from him needing armor and having shield. That and his bad passive and 2. The easiest solution should be a change to Frost's passive, where armor gives him damage reduction to his shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Leqesai said: The easiest solution should be a change to Frost's passive, where armor gives him damage reduction to his shields. He needs a higher number of armor for his bubble. Cool idea though. I thought maybe putting the Icy Avalanche augment into his kit and then making that give armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 6 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said: He needs a higher number of armor for his bubble. Cool idea though. I thought maybe putting the Icy Avalanche augment into his kit and then making that give armor. What I'm saying is change the passive so adding armor to the frame doesn't contradict the inherent desire for shields. Why can't frost be a Redirection + Armor frame instead of a Vitality + Armor frame (all frames). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Leqesai said: What I'm saying is change the passive so adding armor to the frame doesn't contradict the inherent desire for shields. Why can't frost be a Redirection + Armor frame instead of a Vitality + Armor frame (all frames). He doesn't desire shields that's just what he's good at. He desires armor. What you are saying is why not build Armor and shield with this new passive? This would work but go against his umbral combo. And if you don't use all 3 umbral mods you lose value. And when I say he needs/desires armor I'm mainly referring to his base armor which is surprisingly low. Ideally frost can survive on nothing but his abilities(a true defensive frame) which is not hard to do now using Icy Avalanche and bubble spam. But my bubble and my armor needs 4 mods slots. 3 umbral and a redirection for Parasitic Armor. I honestly hate the fact that I have to build shield to get armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said: his base armor which is surprisingly low. I don't know... 300 isn't "low" He has more armor than Inaros, Rhino, Excal and Wukong, to name a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, Leqesai said: I don't know... 300 isn't "low" He has more armor than Inaros, Rhino, Excal and Wukong, to name a few. Low for a frame that relies on it. All the frames you listed have survivability in their kit. Wukong is near unkillable. Rhino while he does rely on it for Iron Skin, the equation has it at a 2.5x multiplier while frost's bubble is straight multiplied with no bonus. Maybe the equation is what really needs a buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said: Rhino while he does rely on it for Iron Skin, the equation has it at a 2.5x multiplier while frost's bubble is straight multiplied with no bonus Wait... what? Snow Globe has a 500% armor multiplier... Maybe I'm not understanding the formulas correctly but based on the wiki equations it looks like both Iron Skin and Snow Globe have multipliers on the frame's armor values. 250% total armor on Iron Skin 500% total armor on Snow Globe (worded as Base armor + bonuses on the wiki but the math looks the same as Rhino's so...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)INe Saninus Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 I've actually been pretty happy with my Frost build here lately. Subsumed Elemental Ward over his 2. Added 2 Umbra Forma so I could slot all 3 mods comfortably. Still run Arcain Guardian. By my (uneducated) math (300 x 348% added on to the 877 I have after modding, 200 from Unairu), that puts me around the 2,500 (2,121 before guardian) armor needed for 90% dmg resistance. Add in Adaptation. Pretty damn tanky. I would love a new passive or the ability to shoot through his globe from that outside, but I think Frost is by far in the best place he's been in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 12 minutes ago, (XBOX)INe Saninus said: I've actually been pretty happy with my Frost build here lately. Subsumed Elemental Ward over his 2. Added 2 Umbra Forma so I could slot all 3 mods comfortably. Still run Arcain Guardian. By my (uneducated) math (300 x 348% added on to the 877 I have after modding, then add 900 from guardian, 200 from Unairu), that puts me around the 2,500 (2,429 before guardian) armor needed for 90% dmg resistance. Add in Adaptation. Pretty damn tanky. I would love a new passive or the ability to shoot through his globe from that outside, but I think Frost is by far in the best place he's been in years. Does elemental ward (ice) add to the health on snow globe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)INe Saninus Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Leqesai said: Does elemental ward (ice) add to the health on snow globe? I was under the impression that it takes your total armor (like power strength) at time of casting. Regardless, Elemental Ward adds some really great themed survivability to his kit. I highly recommend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, (XBOX)INe Saninus said: I was under the impression that it takes your total armor (like power strength) at time of casting. Regardless, Elemental Ward adds some really great themed survivability to his kit. I highly recommend it. it adds armor not effective at high levels though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)INe Saninus Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said: it adds armor not effective at high levels though. More than enough for most Steel Path. I'm sure it stops being effective eventually, but not at the 1 hour mark in a Steel Path survival. ...but all health tanking stops working. It's a much more comfortable way to play. I shield gate when necessary, but it does get tiresome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 38 minutes ago, Leqesai said: Wait... what? Snow Globe has a 500% armor multiplier... Maybe I'm not understanding the formulas correctly but based on the wiki equations it looks like both Iron Skin and Snow Globe have multipliers on the frame's armor values. 250% total armor on Iron Skin 500% total armor on Snow Globe (worded as Base armor + bonuses on the wiki but the math looks the same as Rhino's so...) This has lead me down a rabbithole Rhino's equation: (1200(base health) + (2.5(multiplier) × 225(base armor) × 2.1(1+armor mods))) × 1.3(strength)=3436.875 Frost's Equation: (5000(base health) + (5(multiplier) × 300(base armor) × 1.1(armor mods)) × 1.3(strength)=8645 The only advantage Rhino has is he gets a +1 bonus on his armor math. This has told me that the base armor of both frames doesn't mean anything. Meaning an armor buff wouldn't benefits frost's bubble. I think honestly both frames need a way to scale with enemy level as that is way the problem is. I've learned something today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 8 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said: I think honestly both frames need a way to scale with enemy level as that is way the problem is. This wouldn't even be hard, assuming you can make it scale on the level of the mission. Absorbing damage helps but I rather a flat increase. (1+(enemy level/250))*equation This would give 20% more strength on cast per 50 levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted September 21, 2022 Share Posted September 21, 2022 39 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said: This has lead me down a rabbithole Rhino's equation: (1200(base health) + (2.5(multiplier) × 225(base armor) × 2.1(1+armor mods))) × 1.3(strength)=3436.875 Frost's Equation: (5000(base health) + (5(multiplier) × 300(base armor) × 1.1(armor mods)) × 1.3(strength)=8645 The only advantage Rhino has is he gets a +1 bonus on his armor math. This has told me that the base armor of both frames doesn't mean anything. Meaning an armor buff wouldn't benefits frost's bubble. I think honestly both frames need a way to scale with enemy level as that is way the problem is. I've learned something today. Pretty sure the math on snow globes page is wrong. Steel fibers bonus isn't 1.1x it is 2.1x the way they are doing the math. 300x1.1 is only 330. Steel fiber is a 110% multiplier which would be 2.1 Dame as rhinos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)elementXGHILLIE Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 51 minutes ago, Leqesai said: Pretty sure the math on snow globes page is wrong. Steel fibers bonus isn't 1.1x it is 2.1x the way they are doing the math. 300x1.1 is only 330. Steel fiber is a 110% multiplier which would be 2.1 Dame as rhinos. did the math on excel it works, but the parenthesis placement is definitely wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leqesai Posted September 22, 2022 Share Posted September 22, 2022 28 minutes ago, (XBOX)elementXGHILLIE said: did the math on excel it works, but the parenthesis placement is definitely wrong I don't mean the math adds up wrong, I mean 110% is 1+1.1 not 1.1. It should read 5x(300x2.1) not 5x(300x1.1) EDIT: I checked ingame and their math is definitely correct. I understand why it says base armor + bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.