Thank you DE for respecting Revenant's lore...

[SneakyErvin]

23 hours ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

Reason OP brought up a different dimension is because Ballas touches on the point of Revenant being aware of his own death and denying it. This lands smack dab into the lore regarding Eternalism. Revenant Prime is likely a Revenant from a different timeline altogether who managed to deny his death on the plans and wound up gilded as a Prime somehow. 

That way he wouldnt be Revenant, since Revenant is Revenant because what happens to him is what changes/makes him into what he is. So avoiding the death in another verse would have just ended up with "Warden" Prime, without all the Revenant connections, things he still has as the prime. A Warden Prime would have also not been something special, unless there never was one prior to its death on the plains.

16 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Ballas states that Revenant Prime "defies causality" meaning that Revenant Prime exists, but should not exist, as there is nothing in our universe allowing for his existence outside of the void/multiverse.

My proposals for possible causes of Revenant Prime are built off of this fact. 

Option 1 can very much happen, as the void has been shown to merge things that enter its "memory", as seen in how we have thraxx enemies. Remember that Revenant has been out for years now, more than enough to explain the void "recording" him.

Option 2 can also happen, as we already know from lore that the void can move things across time and dimensions, as seen in both the relic system (giving us infinite Orokin tech that varies over time), and Sevagoth (who as we know was lost in a voidstorm and emerged recently). 

As for the idea that there can only be one Revenant, the quest line cannot support that, as we literally are forced to get Revenant parts prior to confronting the very much intact Warden, meaning that there are copies of Revenant and therefore, multiple of him can be created. We also have Simaris who literally clones Warframe blueprints for us to use. 

While your theory could be true, it still (as you said) does not explain the existence of relics, which in themselves are literally manufactured by the void across time and space.

That can also simply mean Ballas thinks too much of himself, ignoring that other top tier Orokin scientists have exsisted alongside him and still live. Those same things are also those that would allow a Revenant Prime to exsist in our universe. We have both Father and Varzia to go by that actually explains how it is possible. It is just that nothing else has been primed after the Orokin fall.

Option 1. We just dont know enough ebout the Thraxx or if the void actually does anything but "infect" living organisms. We dont know if the Thraxx are a passive result of void exposure or if they are actually engineered. Thraxx are similar to Vor, so it is possible they are engineered either by our Grineer or part of a experiment done by a similar faction in the other verse.

Option 2. No really we dont know that. You are right about dimensions, but it is all still part of our universe and very likely time aswell. Sevagoth was lost in the same sense as Lua and Deimos were hidden in the void dimension. Neither traveled through time or to another universe. We as the tenno are just not experienced enough in old orokin tech to open the relics properly, which is why we get random results, or the relics are simply damaged and we just salvage what is possible.

No, there is only one of him. Only one Tenno really does the archeology of digging up his parts, only one has been destroyed. Everything else is just gameplay mechanics so everyone can have one. And Simaris does that because of and for 1 single tenno, us, the protagonist. That is our copy incase we ever need a new one. Everyone else have gotten their Revenant some other way.

I have no clue where you get the idea from that the void ever created relics. Those are literally Orokin weapon/armament caches locked away in orokin built void towers, protected by the Orokin made neural sentries. The void involvement is very likely based on Warframe tech, i.e you need void power to power them up in order to activate and access them, much like how warframes make use of the void to power themselves. And the reason the relics were locked up in void towers is likely because they stored weapons to be used against the sentients, so there would really be no better place to lock them up. Much like how the massive Caprican weapons bunker in BSG is hidden inside a specific nebula that makes the Cylon deadly sick if they enter it.

edit: We should also consider that there really are only 2 verses interconnected in WF. Since the Zariman incident is what resulted in the seperation and co-exsistance of the two, which was also based on only a two option decisions, a yes/no. Where in one, ours, we got back touched by the void to pilot frames, in the other that never happend and the tenno ended up as the drifter. So in that universe there was never a surrogate project that eventually led to the creation of frames, nor were there any tenno to help control frames incase they were made some other way. 

Any eternalism related decisions post the Zariman incident that may result in a thirds, fourth, fifth or further fork would have no actual impact on the two interconnected versus we have. Since if the difter does a different decision that would only ever affect the drifter in relation to another drifter and would require a seperate Zariman-like incident to allow that drifter to seperate and co-exsist with the other version of himself. Just as if the tenno made a different decision after the Zariman incident, it would only produce a fork in relation to the tenno and require another incident in order to produce a second actual alternate tenno.

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I like to think the normal Revenant resulted from Warden absorbing Eidolon energy, while trapped away for so long. And I attribute Revenant Prime to an alternate timeline where Warden Prime became trapped away instead.

This allows both normal Revenant and Revenant Prime to exist, without necessarily needing Warden and Warden Prime to be playable options. This also explains why our Ballas doesn't recognize Revenant Prime.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

I like to think the normal Revenant resulted from Warden absorbing Eidolon energy, while trapped away for so long. And I attribute Revenant Prime to an alternate timeline where Warden Prime became trapped away instead.

This allows both normal Revenant and Revenant Prime to exist, without necessarily needing Warden and Warden Prime to be playable options. This also explains why our Ballas doesn't recognize Revenant Prime.

It isnt really odd that Ballas doesnt recognize the prime, because Ballas wouldnt actually recognize the base Rev either, since it happened after/during the fall, after the Orokin lost control of the tenno and the frames. Aya, Regal Aya, Varzias explainations, Father, Helminth and the void heart are plenty enough to explain Revenant Prime and Ballas lack of knowledge about it. And in order for there to be alternate timelines sipping into ours, we would have needed more actual choices during the Zariman incident. Two options can only lead to two different realites, and only those two options were directly tied to the rip during the storm. So all other potential realities have no direct access to us or the drifter since those choices occured either before or after the event, which means they either ended up as part of our/drifters reality or they now run alongside it waiting for another event to happen in order to sip into our or drifters reality.

And in Drifters reality there are no tenno, so a revenant prime that we can control cannot possibly come from there. There are just too many things that didnt happen in that reality in order for a frame like ours to exsist. You either have no frames in that reality or you have frames like those that tried to kill the Orokin early on. Though without the Tenno coming back, Margulis would have no children to care for and rehabilitate, so she'd logically never make any surrogates to start with. Chances are that either the Orokin got curb stomped by the sentients (maybe with frame allies that were treated the same) or they had to rely on something else, like improving the Grineer, since we know they do kill sentients during the old war. Which could explain Thraxx, that might simply be drifterverse grineer "frames".

[(PSN)AyinDygra]

I don't see the Warframe-verse as only consisting of 2 realities. Eternalism is essentially the way we respawn if we die... every time we "die", we just merge in another copy of us that didn't die at that moment, so we continue on as if nothing happened... so our "timelines" keep splitting like that, at least from my perspective. Infinite multiverses, everything that "can happen" "does happen"... connected through the void.

 

[SneakyErvin]

21 hours ago, (PSN)AyinDygra said:

I don't see the Warframe-verse as only consisting of 2 realities. Eternalism is essentially the way we respawn if we die... every time we "die", we just merge in another copy of us that didn't die at that moment, so we continue on as if nothing happened... so our "timelines" keep splitting like that, at least from my perspective. Infinite multiverses, everything that "can happen" "does happen"... connected through the void.

 

No. Eternalism is based on real life theories regarding time, space, action and consequence. However, what makes eternalism possible as it works in WF is specifically due to what happened on the Zariman, and all of it is anchored to the two way choice we made there. Two choices can never lead to anything but two different realities, here in WF with actual physical access due to what happened back then. Anything that happens after that or happened before on either side of the rip only affects that side, allowing it to branch out further. In order for further alternate realities to enter ours there would need to be another zariman event on either our side or the drifter side.

If it happens on the tenno side it would have direct access to our universe at whichever point the event happens, and access to the drifter universe through the zariman rip. And the same would apply to the drifter universe if it branches out, it would need a similar event that gives another universe direct access to the drifterverse and access to the tennoverse by going through the zariman rip.

It's like in Avengers, they need to make an actual machine to get them across universes (and time in that case). The multiverse exsist still, but they need to create an event with the machine to travel it. Or like the girl in Multiverse of Madness that effectively is the event catalyst. We only have Zariman, which is tied to these two universes and act as the gate/bridge. Heck, potentially, if we were able to move the Zariman, we'd no longer have access to the drifterverse. It isnt the void in general that gives us access, it is specifically at the breach point where the accident happened. The void itself is "just" a wormhole connecting two solar systems, Sol and Tau, and leaks randomly into Sol (and maybe Tau aswell) due to what the Orokin did inside it with their towers and crap. Possibly it is also the birthplace of a certain someone in order to symbolize the theory of void space actually being a place of "evil" or straight up "hell".

There are however indications that the breach will start to spread, much in the same sense as the rest of the void. We could see that in the devstream when they showcased the upcoming Lua survival modes, with the black/white patches of void. But that is something that will happen, with no indication it has yet, and it is still just a connection between the 2 currently known universes tied together by the Zariman.

Even though DE has thrown eternalism into the mix, there are still rules/laws to be followed regarding that. 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

On 2022-11-15 at 8:52 AM, SneakyErvin said:

That way he wouldnt be Revenant, since Revenant is Revenant because what happens to him is what changes/makes him into what he is. So avoiding the death in another verse would have just ended up with "Warden" Prime, without all the Revenant connections, things he still has as the prime. A Warden Prime would have also not been something special, unless there never was one prior to its death on the plains.

That can also simply mean Ballas thinks too much of himself, ignoring that other top tier Orokin scientists have exsisted alongside him and still live. Those same things are also those that would allow a Revenant Prime to exsist in our universe. We have both Father and Varzia to go by that actually explains how it is possible. It is just that nothing else has been primed after the Orokin fall.

Option 1. We just dont know enough ebout the Thraxx or if the void actually does anything but "infect" living organisms. We dont know if the Thraxx are a passive result of void exposure or if they are actually engineered. Thraxx are similar to Vor, so it is possible they are engineered either by our Grineer or part of a experiment done by a similar faction in the other verse.

Option 2. No really we dont know that. You are right about dimensions, but it is all still part of our universe and very likely time aswell. Sevagoth was lost in the same sense as Lua and Deimos were hidden in the void dimension. Neither traveled through time or to another universe. We as the tenno are just not experienced enough in old orokin tech to open the relics .

No, there is only one of him. Only one Tenno really does the archeology of digging up his parts, only one has been destroyed. Everything else is just gameplay mechanics so everyone can have one. And Simaris does that because of and for 1 single tenno, us, the protagonist. That is our copy incase we ever need a new one. Everyone else have gotten their Revenant some other way.

 

We dig up revenant parts before we destroy him. It's literally a required thing done in the quest and commented on by npcs, meaning that there has to be more than one that can be built.

 

[SneakyErvin]

22 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

We dig up revenant parts before we destroy him. It's literally a required thing done in the quest and commented on by npcs, meaning that there has to be more than one that can be built.

 

Those are just fragments that are no longer part of the specter we later fight. Pieces we use in order to come up with blueprints to rebuild the whole thing, with alot of replacement materials going into it aswell. That is if the specter is still the remains of the actual frame and not just a copy manufactured by the eidolon, like our own automated specters and the Protea we fight.