Unfortunately, Spearguns are still bad.

[Flannoit]

Ba-bump

[Dr.Membrane]

Good talkingpoint, i made this year a thread about the Javlok as well. This where my ideas back then

Imo: 
_The Reload speed should be at least at 1.5 (from 1,9) ,
_the AOE explosion from the normal shot should be 5m (instead of 2m)
_and the Fire rate... well it is not terrible but also could be higher like 4,44 (instead of 3.33).
The Problem is you just can't tackle 2 or all 3 problems at once since you will lose this way most of its DPS. If you don't counter any of its performance issues, then you end up with a very slow gun which is not much fun to use. So neither way you go, it always feels kind of unsatisfying. 

(this problem got fixed)
I love the concept of the throw mechanic tbh, it's such an awesome idea to somehow give your Primary an useful alternative "task". It is a smart way to bypass the boring holstering mechanic and somewhat use both of your guns at the same time. Magnificent! <3
But as it stands you don't benefit much from Javlok´s alt-fire. If the gun has a throw-away mechanic and i can't use it anymore, it should be worth it. The Ferrox and Scourge for example doing this in a much better way, but the Javlok just explodes one time and that's the end of the experience.

In my opinion, how to make the Javlok really worth throwing is: that it also get a 20second stick-timer BUT it reloads itself and explode again for its whole duration (less Reload time would also mean more explosions ofc). I realy love to see this gun as a "throw & forget" Tool-weapon. It could hold doorways clear (same counts for Mobile-Defence or Interception-consoles), it could constantly damage a High-HP Enemy-type like Demolysts/Liches/Sisters or you could just glue it on one of your Atlas Rumblers (or Kavat, or tenno, or companion) and enjoy the carnage.

For me the Spear-Gun experience felt more like a tool-weapons or tactical options for special occasions or even Warframes. You know the Ferrox is a nice addition to Vauban for an extra tool of CC or Damage source for the Vortex. The  Scourge is a headshot-helper which goes hand in hand with any kind headshot abilities, in special with [Arcane Pistoleer]<3. And the Javlok could be that one crazy stick, that you plant in the ground and... its explode ... like ... a lot. A wet dream for all the Megumin´s and Mr.Torgue's out there.

With kind regards,
aguywithastronguselessJavlokRiven.

[Flannoit]

1 hour ago, Dr.Membrane said:

Good talkingpoint, i made this year a thread about the Javlok as well. This where my ideas back then

Imo: 
_The Reload speed should be at least at 1.5 (from 1,9) ,
_the AOE explosion from the normal shot should be 5m (instead of 2m)
_and the Fire rate... well it is not terrible but also could be higher like 4,44 (instead of 3.33).
The Problem is you just can't tackle 2 or all 3 problems at once since you will lose this way most of its DPS. If you don't counter any of its performance issues, then you end up with a very slow gun which is not much fun to use. So neither way you go, it always feels kind of unsatisfying. 

(this problem got fixed)
I love the concept of the throw mechanic tbh, it's such an awesome idea to somehow give your Primary an useful alternative "task". It is a smart way to bypass the boring holstering mechanic and somewhat use both of your guns at the same time. Magnificent! <3
But as it stands you don't benefit much from Javlok´s alt-fire. If the gun has a throw-away mechanic and i can't use it anymore, it should be worth it. The Ferrox and Scourge for example doing this in a much better way, but the Javlok just explodes one time and that's the end of the experience.

In my opinion, how to make the Javlok really worth throwing is: that it also get a 20second stick-timer BUT it reloads itself and explode again for its whole duration (less Reload time would also mean more explosions ofc). I realy love to see this gun as a "throw & forget" Tool-weapon. It could hold doorways clear (same counts for Mobile-Defence or Interception-consoles), it could constantly damage a High-HP Enemy-type like Demolysts/Liches/Sisters or you could just glue it on one of your Atlas Rumblers (or Kavat, or tenno, or companion) and enjoy the carnage.

For me the Spear-Gun experience felt more like a tool-weapons or tactical options for special occasions or even Warframes. You know the Ferrox is a nice addition to Vauban for an extra tool of CC or Damage source for the Vortex. The  Scourge is a headshot-helper which goes hand in hand with any kind headshot abilities, in special with [Arcane Pistoleer]<3. And the Javlok could be that one crazy stick, that you plant in the ground and... its explode ... like ... a lot. A wet dream for all the Megumin´s and Mr.Torgue's out there.

With kind regards,
aguywithastronguselessJavlokRiven.

The most fun I've made for my Javlok is cranking the fire rate up stupid high - it's actually pretty satisfying! Unfortunately it still is heavily gated by needing to re-press the fire button every single time... The changes I suggested, I feel, would give Javlok the facelift it needs to be a unique weapon that is enticing and actually capable of competing with the 90% of weapons that are endgame viable.

[Lancars]

Well knew year and we will see if spearguns stay a dead weaponset as a whole.

Again all weapons still outperform them and the gimmicks don't even help since they changed things with their weird baton twirl as some sort of stupid "reload" that you cannot skip at all and have to let it go through otherwise it restarts when you switch back to it and waste your time.

I mean you got the scourge. It worked before cause you'd auto switch to secondary but now you're punished for switching when you switch back to it to use its little headshot attractor. Again I could just... not use it and just headshot things myself. They made it clunky trash.  They worked fine before. Roll it back.

The only amusing one to me is the primary fire for the Afentis cause haha dynamite bolts. Just trying to use its secondary function is more bothersome then its worth.

[Tiltskillet]

Also, Scourge / Javlok Magnetize hijinks got hamstrung: 

It's mentioned in the thread, but I want to also point out how odd it is that the Scourge Prime now has unavoidable  body punch through on its throw.  Which still doesn't work with Magnetize, and seems very inconvenient compared to the original's lack of PT.

[Flannoit]

hey de please save this pitiful group of weapons i want my favorite weapon type to actually be usable

[Lancars]

12 hours ago, Flannoit said:

hey de please save this pitiful group of weapons i want my favorite weapon type to actually be usable

They are so unique that what DE did them makes it hard to enjoy the cool mechanics they have.

[Flannoit]

Bump

[Flannoit]

ba-ba-bump

[IDystopiaI]

There's another weird bug I noticed with the Afentis being used in throw mode. It seems like you can throw it at a corpse that is no longer rendering in, but has not actually been removed from the game, the spear will instead behave as if you hit an enemy instead. Because the game counts it as hitting an enemy, you do not get the buff field and you also get staggered by the explosion if you threw it at your feet, trying to get the buff field.

As far as I know, the Afentis is the only spear gun currently that has a separate effect for throwing the spear at a surface and throwing the spear at an enemy. 

The long forced reload after throw, and the Afentis' very low max ammo capacity end up making this effect more annoying because I'm now stuck modding around mitigating these issues instead of being able to mod the weapon to function as an actual weapon in regular content. There's also the problem where throwing a Speargun into a team mate, or Zephyr tornado just eats the spear, preventing you from getting the effects of a spear planting into the floor, or the damage from a spear hitting an enemy. (Some other projectiles like the one fired from the Tenet Arca Plasmor also disappear  when fired at a team mate/zephyr tornado.)

*Kind of off topic but, hitting a corpse really should not block bullets/projectiles, even if they are still visible on the map. It feels like I'm just wasting ammo with a single target weapons, when I could grab any AOE weapon and clear the room with a single shot. 

[Flannoit]

On 2023-01-09 at 1:41 PM, IDystopiaI said:

There's another weird bug I noticed with the Afentis being used in throw mode. It seems like you can throw it at a corpse that is no longer rendering in, but has not actually been removed from the game, the spear will instead behave as if you hit an enemy instead. Because the game counts it as hitting an enemy, you do not get the buff field and you also get staggered by the explosion if you threw it at your feet, trying to get the buff field.

As far as I know, the Afentis is the only spear gun currently that has a separate effect for throwing the spear at a surface and throwing the spear at an enemy. 

The long forced reload after throw, and the Afentis' very low max ammo capacity end up making this effect more annoying because I'm now stuck modding around mitigating these issues instead of being able to mod the weapon to function as an actual weapon in regular content. There's also the problem where throwing a Speargun into a team mate, or Zephyr tornado just eats the spear, preventing you from getting the effects of a spear planting into the floor, or the damage from a spear hitting an enemy. (Some other projectiles like the one fired from the Tenet Arca Plasmor also disappear  when fired at a team mate/zephyr tornado.)

*Kind of off topic but, hitting a corpse really should not block bullets/projectiles, even if they are still visible on the map. It feels like I'm just wasting ammo with a single target weapons, when I could grab any AOE weapon and clear the room with a single shot. 

Oh that's awfulllll

DE fix this too