Why do pherliac pods take 8 hours!?

[(PSN)Johnny_Crossroad]

Ok so just why. I have to let them craft for 8 HOURS. only to play a 5 minute mission. This just feels so bad but I can understand a time sink. then to make  a quote "calibration" it takes another 8 hours. Why do it again? It just makes the entire quest feel terrible. 

[Kaichi16]

because DE needs any excuse to suck your money

warframe is pay2(have a less unpleasant experience), you pay either with money or time and it's way more expensive in time.

[SpicyDinosaur]

19 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

because DE needs any excuse to suck your money

warframe is pay2(have a less unpleasant experience), you pay either with money or time and it's way more expensive in time.

not everything is a conspiracy.

 

You only ever have to make them like once, iirc. I don't think they were actively thinking making it take 8 hours would cause a rush of people buying atlas as a frame with plat. This game just has a time gating mechanic to make things last a bit longer so you don't rush through content.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

33 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

because DE needs any excuse to suck your money

warframe is pay2(have a less unpleasant experience), you pay either with money or time and it's way more expensive in time.

Tell me you rarely if ever played a MMO like WoW/Guild Wars/Final Fantasy Reborn without telling me you haven't before. 

[Kaichi16]

1 minute ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

Tell me you rarely if ever played a MMO like WoW/Guild Wars/Final Fantasy Reborn without telling me you haven't before. 

nope, i havent. why? how does timegates make those MMO better?

15 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

not everything is a conspiracy.

 

You only ever have to make them like once, iirc. I don't think they were actively thinking making it take 8 hours would cause a rush of people buying atlas as a frame with plat. This game just has a time gating mechanic to make things last a bit longer so you don't rush through content.

it's not a conspiracy, it's a fact.

if they didn't timegate everything, most players wouldnt spend a single cent in warframe. 

 

crafting system has lots of flaws, it doesnt feel correct to make someone wait 12h for a braton prime.

i've had at least 4 friends who just quit warframe because... well, people have lives. waiting 84h to TEST a new frame isnt okay. 

[(PSN)Shaun-T-Wilson]

Dont you get 50 of them in a single batch.

[SpicyDinosaur]

Just now, Kaichi16 said:

nope, i havent. why? how does timegates make those MMO better?

it's not a conspiracy, it's a fact.

if they didn't timegate everything, most players wouldnt spend a single cent in warframe. 

 

crafting system has lots of flaws, it doesnt feel correct to make someone wait 12h for a braton prime.

i've had at least 4 friends who just quit warframe because... well, people have lives. waiting 84h to TEST a new frame isnt okay. 

I don't think I've ever spent a penny on Warframe that involved its time gating. Time gating stops you from racing through content faster than they can put it out, plainly put. It's a thing all MMOs and similar games use, pay to play or free to play or whatever.

 

Just because you and your friends have the patience of a gnat doesn't mean DE is using time gating to trick you into spending money, especially since plat can also be earned in game, as well. I haven't spent anything on plat itself in years, I mostly just buy the prime access accessories for the cosmetics I can't get otherwise. I earn all my plat in game, and the fact that they let you do that at all speaks to DE being at least somewhat more honest on this front, though perhaps not others.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

9 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

nope, i havent. why? how does timegates make those MMO better?

it's not a conspiracy, it's a fact.

if they didn't timegate everything, most players wouldnt spend a single cent in warframe. 

Most MMOs timegate things behind 1 month to 6 months worth of grinding. For one thing. And you usually cannot spend money to speed it up neither. 

[Kaichi16]

11 minutes ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

Most MMOs timegate things behind 1 month to 6 months worth of grinding. For one thing. And you usually cannot spend money to speed it up neither. 

somehow that's okay, to be honest. you're actively playing, even if it takes a while.

in warframe you're just waiting. 

i havent played those, but i remember playing lineage 2 and things took a while to craft, but it was because i had to get all materials and stuff. crafting itself was pretty fast.

19 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Time gating stops you from racing through content faster than they can put it out, plainly put.

i know, timegating isnt a problem. the problem is when DE overuses it. the game already has tons of layers of RNG to get stuff, does it really need so many time gates?

21 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

Just because you and your friends have the patience of a gnat

thanks for the personal attack. i'll try to not go down to your level and keep the conversation polite. 

22 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

doesn't mean DE is using time gating to trick you into spending money

to be honest, yes it does. otherwise, there wouldnt have a way to speed up things using money. eidolons, kahl, archon hunts, syndicates, those have times gates as well but you cant speed up with plat. 

let's calc the plat costs

a normal weapon like the Latron.

it costs 225 plat if you buy it straight from the market. it comes with a potato(20pl) and a weapon slot(6plat[as weapon slots come in pair and it costs 12plat]), let's deduce those costs so latron costs 199 plat.

it takes 12h to craft and can be speed up for 35plat, so the latron price before being crafted costs 164plat.

so, you're telling me 20k credits (which can obtained from 5min dark sector missions), 5 morphics, 800 platids, 1000 alloy plate and 900 salvage + latron blueprint costs 164 plat. 

let's just remember the latron is a mr0 weapon. shouldnt low mr weapons have lower time gates or prices? how does this make any sense? 

33 minutes ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

plat can also be earned in game

otherwise, nobody would play warframe.

can you imagine being forced to play with 4 weapon slots and warframe slots forever because otherwise you'd have to pay money for it?

[SpicyDinosaur]

2 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

thanks for the personal attack. i'll try to not go down to your level and keep the conversation polite. 

That's fair, I shouldn't have been rude like that.

 

The time gating you are talking about is also very old, keep in mind. Hell, it's possible at the time it was implemented it was to encourage people to skip and pay plat they bought with money, but I think they get a lot more money from warframe and weapon slots and forma. It's just that you don't actually have to spend real life money on these things and can still rush your builds.

 

You shouldn't be waiting around for three days for a frame to finish, there's a ton of things you can do in the mean time, even if it's just play other games. As for waiting 8 hours for pherliac pods for the Jordas Precept, well that's not really very long, and again other stuff can be done in the mean time. And as someone mentioned I am pretty sure it makes 50 at once.

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

40 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

somehow that's okay, to be honest. you're actively playing, even if it takes a while.

in warframe you're just waiting. 

i havent played those, but i remember playing lineage 2 and things took a while to craft, but it was because i had to get all materials and stuff. crafting itself was pretty fast.

Uhh, no, you're not always actively playing. for Guild Wars 2, you need 25 of an Ascended Materials to craft one of the components to make a Legendary Weapon. You can make only ONE of said material EVERY 24HRs. And that's only one part of the time gates. MULTIPLE materials to make that weapon has time gates that are 12HRS ~ 24HRS long and that isn't including time gates associated with events with specific triggers. 

[Kaichi16]

1 hour ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

As for waiting 8 hours for pherliac pods for the Jordas Precept, well that's not really very long, and again other stuff can be done in the mean time. And as someone mentioned I am pretty sure it makes 50 at once.

my problem with it is that it's a bit too long for something you'll use in one quest. like having to craft each limbo part to progress its quest, like ???

1 hour ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

You shouldn't be waiting around for three days for a frame to finish, there's a ton of things you can do in the mean time, even if it's just play other games

while i agree, isnt this just... bad? like... i want to play warframe. in other MMOs, at least you can feel the progress, each time you're closer to getting all materials you want to craft whatever thing it is. in warframe is literally wait. of course, you can do something else, but when the new update is all about new items all you have to do is wait or do play old stuff you're kinda tired of.

34 minutes ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

Uhh, no, you're not always actively playing. for Guild Wars 2, you need 25 of an Ascended Materials to craft one of the components to make a Legendary Weapon. You can make only ONE of said material EVERY 24HRs. And that's only one part of the time gates. MULTIPLE materials to make that weapon has time gates that are 12HRS ~ 24HRS long and that isn't including time gates associated with events with specific triggers. 

wow, that's... that sucks, aint it? i hope you're not defending it as something good xD

[SpicyDinosaur]

3 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

my problem with it is that it's a bit too long for something you'll use in one quest. like having to craft each limbo part to progress its quest, like ???

while i agree, isnt this just... bad? like... i want to play warframe. in other MMOs, at least you can feel the progress, each time you're closer to getting all materials you want to craft whatever thing it is. in warframe is literally wait. of course, you can do something else, but when the new update is all about new items all you have to do is wait or do play old stuff you're kinda tired of.

wow, that's... that sucks, aint it? i hope you're not defending it as something good xD

The problem is that without time gating things devs wouldn't be able to keep up with the rate of consumption of the content by the player base. That's fine for a single player game, but when you depend on keeping players interested as much as possible and for as long as possible, there's no way you can keep up with a lot of players, because people can get really obsessed with video games if you haven't noticed.

 

It's less predatory than it is just a way of easing up on the breaks so that the dev team can catch their breath.

[Kaichi16]

2 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

The problem is that without time gating things devs wouldn't be able to keep up with the rate of consumption of the content by the player base. That's fine for a single player game, but when you depend on keeping players interested as much as possible and for as long as possible, there's no way you can keep up with a lot of players, because people can get really obsessed with video games if you haven't noticed.

 

It's less predatory than it is just a way of easing up on the breaks so that the dev team can catch their breath.

i wouldnt fully remove time gating, but... maybe use it more decently? like... the game already has a lot of content, lower content could be more accessible to new players. 

 

also, that's a great problem warframe has... maybe creating game modes or something that can keep players in. 

there's an idea i love and really would like to see in warframe: the rogue-like mode.

 

DE keeps releasing disposable content so of course players will experience a huge content drought. 

the content feels like it was made to be played once, yet we "have" to replay the same thing to get the rewards. 

like kahls missions (which would be great as one time quest and a small endless mode). 

like the archons (which worked very well inside the quest but outside of it, they are just bullet sponges that ppl already know how to cheese)

like how rewards are in the drop tables, poluting drop tables full of one-time items (warframe parts, weapon parts) which you have no use after you get them once and they get in the way of other possible interesting items from that drop table

we need something to go back to

while nightwave should be doing it, it's just an incentive to replay old content, you're playing for the nightwave rewards, not because the content is fun.

 

OH OH think about it as the "AoE' problem. a bad solution to a problem creates more problems

in the AoE problem, they couldnt make a decent self damage system, so they removed it and made self stagger which can be easily cheesed, so AoE weapons became meta, now they're trying to nerf AoE in a way that dont anger players. 

it all started because they couldnt fix the self damage problem properly. 

like fixing something with gum, it may work for a while, but it'll never be a definitive solution. 

[SpicyDinosaur]

53 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

in the AoE problem, they couldnt make a decent self damage system, so they removed it and made self stagger which can be easily cheesed, so AoE weapons became meta, now they're trying to nerf AoE in a way that dont anger players. 

The self damage system was fine but it was more that DE didn't want people to be able to play in a way they, as always, didn't intend, and maximize damage output as, for example, Chroma without any enemy damage being done to them. But they wanted to change it immediately (I blame Steve for most stuff like this, who knows, but I suspect he caused a lot of unnecessary issues for the game due to his inability to compromise or change what he was after.)

 

Nerfing AoE was necessary, and a good idea, but now that they are reimplementing self damage, they are looking to do it in an improved fashion, which is what should have been done in the first place.

[Pakaku]

9 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

because DE needs any excuse to suck your money

warframe is pay2(have a less unpleasant experience), you pay either with money or time and it's way more expensive in time.

On the other hand, you can spend those 8 hours doing literally anything else. Or craft stuff while you're offline. The game obviously needs to pad out your time, but at least it doesn't lock you out unlike many other time-gated games.

[Kaichi16]

12 hours ago, Pakaku said:

On the other hand, you can spend those 8 hours doing literally anything else. Or craft stuff while you're offline. The game obviously needs to pad out your time, but at least it doesn't lock you out unlike many other time-gated games.

at least. it's not good but at least it's not terrible. 

13 hours ago, SpicyDinosaur said:

The self damage system was fine but it was more that DE didn't want people to be able to play in a way they, as always, didn't intend, and maximize damage output as, for example, Chroma without any enemy damage being done to them. But they wanted to change it immediately (I blame Steve for most stuff like this, who knows, but I suspect he caused a lot of unnecessary issues for the game due to his inability to compromise or change what he was after.)

are you serious? killing yourself with a single shot is fine? lots of weapons were almost unusable. 

there's no way it was for chroma, it literally changed nothing. you can max your damage in less than 5 seconds. chroma would be the only one who was slightly favored by old self damage system, is it really a good reason to change it? change a whole system of the game because of one frame's ability?

but i agree, at least steve isnt in the team anymore. remember how he didn't want to change liches one-shotting people? yeah...

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

3 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

there's no way it was for chroma, it literally changed nothing. you can max your damage in less than 5 seconds. chroma would be the only one who was slightly favored by old self damage system, is it really a good reason to change it? change a whole system of the game because of one frame's ability?

Trinity was nerfed repeatedly because of Self-Damage. Chroma was the other issue. Pretty sure other weird arse interactions with Self-Damage but those frames likely weren't the case of it being put to rest, likely it was people constantly coming to the boards Q.Q about blowing themselves up that caused Self-Damage to be removed in favor of stagger.

19 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

wow, that's... that sucks, aint it? i hope you're not defending it as something good xD

And no, I am not defending MMOs making it take months to get one Legendary item. I am just saying, its far more egregious elsewhere than it is here in Warframe even with multiple upon multiple timegates in your way to get something. 

Example, it took me two weeks to max out the Entrati Family Syndicate to get Rank 5. Mind you, I didn't even need Rank 5 because the gear/items I wanted was offered at Rank 3 and unlike how you need Solaris United at Rank 5 to unlock Vox Solaris, you do not need Rank 5 Entrati Family to unlock Necroloids. Comparatively, it (before Anet changed the timegates because of the uproar) took a full month to unlock a Skyscale Mount in Guild Wars 2. A flying mount that's prime purpose is transversal. Sure, it can do some damage, all mounts can, but it wasn't better in that department as you dismount from your mount to do so, and mounts do not actively fight in combat once initiated. It was just a QOL transversal mount. Your other mounts could get you to the same exact locations as the Skyscale, though with some more effort in a few instances (not by much with the Griffin mount on deck which didn't have timegates at all, just in-game currency gates). 

Imagine it took a month to build your Railjack once you gained access to the Rising Tide questline. And yeah, I am aware that DE did reduce the time it takes to build each Railjack part, but it still wasn't a full-on month to complete it. I believe it was a week previously. 24HRs per part, and there is six of them. They got it down to 1MIN per part now. 

[Kaichi16]

1 minute ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

Trinity was nerfed repeatedly because of Self-Damage

i think this was correct. nerf the tool causing the problem, not the whole system. 

no idea why DE cant program a decent self damage system... lots of games have it working almost perfectly, but in warframe it's either 1 or 100. either non existant or kill yourself.

3 minutes ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

in favor of stagger.

and this is a bad solution to a problem, as i was talking before. instead of implementing a proper self damage system, they just put something else that can easily be negated by mods. which caused AoE to become meta, which's why we're in this "nerf AoE" moment. the gum never lasts long.

5 minutes ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

They got it down to 1MIN per part now. 

THIS is very good, i didn't know. see, it aint "letting players rush content" just because crafting time is shorter.

6 minutes ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

And no, I am not defending MMOs making it take months to get one Legendary item. I am just saying, its far more egregious elsewhere than it is here in Warframe even with multiple upon multiple timegates in your way to get something. 

i kinda understand that, but... just because it isnt terrible, it doesnt mean it's good. why cant it be improved? 

[(PSN)FunyFlyBoy]

2 minutes ago, Kaichi16 said:

THIS is very good, i didn't know. see, it aint "letting players rush content" just because crafting time is shorter.

i kinda understand that, but... just because it isnt terrible, it doesnt mean it's good. why cant it be improved? 

Yeaaahhh, wanna know why Railjack got reduced? Physically required for the Main Storyline. Atlas is not. 

Not every timegate needs to be "improved" neither. 

At the end of the day, timegates is there to keep you from burning through content so they have time to make the next bit of content, to keep you engaged because they earn money from you sticking around in some form or fashion. Either you paying DE yourself. You are generating revenue for them as repeat number the investors can see. You influence in others joining who may bring in money because of you being a repeat player. Etc. 

Honestly, unless you've no real-life responsibilities such as a job, children, or school, you should be leaving the 8HR crafting during the time you're sleep, or not home. You're not engaged with the game 24/7 for these specific timegates to affect you to the point they need "improving" for many of them. 

[Kaichi16]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

to keep you engaged because they earn money from you sticking around in some form or fashion. Either you paying DE yourself. You are generating revenue for them as repeat number the investors can see. You influence in others joining who may bring in money because of you being a repeat player. Etc. 

↓

23 hours ago, Kaichi16 said:

you pay either with money or time and it's way more expensive in time.

 

2 minutes ago, (PSN)FunyFlyBoy said:

Not every timegate needs to be "improved" neither. 

to be honest, if it's flawed, it should be improved. 

games should always be trying to improve themselves. 

again, i'm not saying to fully remove timegating in crafting. i'm just saying to make it more decent. 

low mr items should take less time to craft than higher mr items, doesnt it make sense? 

something like this would help to keep players in, as you can see, only 55,6% of players got the steam achievement "reach rank 2 with any warframe". 

it may not look like, but warframe quit rate is pretty high, at least based on those numbers we have. 

[(PSN)Johnny_Crossroad]

On 2022-12-28 at 9:41 AM, SpicyDinosaur said:

not everything is a conspiracy.

 

You only ever have to make them like once, iirc. I don't think they were actively thinking making it take 8 hours would cause a rush of people buying atlas as a frame with plat. This game just has a time gating mechanic to make things last a bit longer so you don't rush through content.

My issue is that you only ever use it once then it is irrelevant. Why time gate so hard on something that doesn't even matter.