Disruption reward system

[DrakeWurrum]

I've had a thought about how the Disruption rewards work. Currently, how many conduits we defend decide which loot pool the round's reward comes from.

This can sometimes make it hard for non-premade groups to work together if, say, one person wants loot table A, 2 want loot table C, and another wants loot table B...
Communication is always key, but if you *don't need* the rewards from a specific loot pool, you can't exactly stop the rest of your squad from continuing to kill Demo units.
(Yes, you can always play solo, but as this is a co-op game, gameplay should be co-op friendly so that those who choose to play with others don't get frustrated)

Additionally, the way it's "explained" from an in-game perspective is that Alad V designed a special vault that takes special conduit keys, but destroying a conduit locks a vault "FOR-EVA".
And then if you only defend one conduit and allow the others to be destroyed, Little Duck gets really mad at you... which is kinda weird? Because this is an INTENDED method of selecting which loot table you're getting rewards from? From a game mechanics perspective, I have no choice except to make Little Duck mad at me.

Anyhow, my thought to sort of... tie a bow on all these problems all at once: Why not make it so defending the appropriate number of conduits means each loot table gives a reward out?
So if you're, for example, on the 3rd round of a disruption node and you successfully defend all 4 conduits... you actually get 3 different rewards paid out. One from each of the loot tables you successfully unlocked by opening the vault all the way.

This also helps players to speed-run Disruption missions better. Typically, if you only need the loot table A from defending a single conduit, you'll active the remaining 3 and just... wait them out. Probably turn away from the screen to do something else for a couple minutes. The game makes you feel like you're not intended to play this way, but sometimes when you're farming a specific relic... it's the only way. I think it would be better gameplay if we were instead incentivized to close out the round faster by taking out the remaining Demo units in a hurry while still getting the loot drops we're grinding for.

[Rathalio]

It feels kinda awkward to me to willingly let demolysts destroy conduits to stay in rotation A. For two reasons: it slows down the gameplay quite a bit and disruption are nice and efficient because you can practically rush them a bit so you throw that away. And second, why not simply look for a similar mission in a lower tier so your loot you are looking for in rotation A becomes the rotation B/C loot in a lower level mission?

Edited October 15, 2023 by Rathalio

[Zakkhar]

Just play different planet or leave after 2 first rotations. Or even better play capture Void instead for Lith/Neo/Meso* and Lua Disuption for Axi only.

*) Yes, the reward pool is bigger than disruption and you may not only get the relics you want, but you get 1 guaranted relic per minute. And it is not like the other relics are useless.

Edited October 15, 2023 by Zakkhar

[DrakeWurrum]

On 2023-10-15 at 7:41 AM, Zakkhar said:

Just play different planet or leave after 2 first rotations. Or even better play capture Void instead for Lith/Neo/Meso* and Lua Disuption for Axi only.

*) Yes, the reward pool is bigger than disruption and you may not only get the relics you want, but you get 1 guaranted relic per minute. And it is not like the other relics are useless.

Cop-out solution. "Just leave and get a new mission" is a disruptive solution to what could otherwise be a simple co-op gameplay experience. And just because there's other farming methods that may prove to be more lucrative doesn't mean we shouldn't make THIS method as co-op friendly and fun to play as possible.

With what I suggest, if you're hunting Meso relics on Kappa-Sedna for example, you won't care one credit how many Demos are killed. You don't need to change missions. You don't need to switch to solo. You just go on, play the mission, and you have a shot at the loot you're grinding.

My suggestion doesn't take away from anybody else's experience of the game.

Edited October 18, 2023 by DrakeWurrum

[DrakeWurrum]

On 2023-10-15 at 5:32 AM, Rathalio said:

It feels kinda awkward to me to willingly let demolysts destroy conduits to stay in rotation A. For two reasons: it slows down the gameplay quite a bit and disruption are nice and efficient because you can practically rush them a bit so you throw that away. And second, why not simply look for a similar mission in a lower tier so your loot you are looking for in rotation A becomes the rotation B/C loot in a lower level mission?

Largely because of how the loot tables work. Sedna loot tables A/B/C go from Meso to Neo to Axi. Mars loot tables A/B/C has Lith/Lith/Meso. Uranus is similar, going Meso/Meso/Neo.

In Disruption, loot table C is only given out from the third rotation on. So if the plan is to just play endlessly in a single mission, that can work. But if you want to farm the mission while enemies are low level, going 3 rounds in Sedna could get you rewards faster.

[(XBOX)Apparentthreat]

I'm not sure paying out all three (or two) is the best solution, but rather letting players choose between the two (or three) drops per round. 
I'm envisioning a similar screen that's at the end of Void Fissure missions.

Disruption seems to "punish" players who aren't looking for specific groups or coordinating with the other players.
Also, keep in mind that other players have their own goal in mind; goals that may not have an intersection. 

Let's use a topical example for October 2023- acquiring the Lith G8 relic for the Grendel Prime Blueprint. 
It has some of its higher drop chances from both Rotations A and B of Olympus Mars Disruption.

Now, if you've ever done a public Disruption, you know players are defending all 4 conduits. 
That makes Rotation A drop nearly impossible to get. 
For Rotation B, that's only 2 chances (rounds) before having to extract.
The time spent extracting and starting new missions adds up over time.

The first alternate solution I'd offer is to let players extract after the first conduit is defended. 
This would at least let solo players or private groups get the Rotation A drop without intentionally failing the other 3. 
This would prevent more than one Rotation A drop from being obtained, though. 

My second alternate solution would be to add another Disruption node where Rotations B and/or C drop Lith relics.
One doesn't seem to exist at this time. 
This would let players do endless rounds of Disruption just like any of the others. 
I'm assuming such a node would be low level. This would make a great introduction to Disruption for new players. 
My early experience with Disruption was completing the Star Chart and then I essentially ignored it due to difficulty. 
Now I'm doing it quite a bit since I have appropriate gear, etc. 

And let me just add that if the solution to this is to just do a different mission type that may have the same drop chance then that's just forcing players into certain game modes or making them do missions they may not like. This just leads to burnout and unhappiness. 

In summary, every other Rotation-based mission pays out each A, B, and C reward as you keep playing. 
If you want Rotation A drop, you stop at Rotation A, etc.
Disruption is the only one I've encountered that adds another layer of conditions to the payout. 

If any of my assumptions above are wrong, I apologize. 

Edited October 20, 2023 by (XBOX)Apparentthreat
Adding more context.

[Zakkhar]

11 hours ago, (XBOX)Apparentthreat said:

My second alternate solution would be to add another Disruption node where Rotations B and/or C drop Lith relics.
One doesn't seem to exist at this time. 

Because only insane (or uninformed) person would run it, when Void Capture exist. You can get 1 relic ~1 minute of your time, solo. With clear and easy mission objectives.

Compare that to 4 conduits in Disruption, you would need premade team of very organiized people to achieve that. 

Hepit drop table:

Rewards
Lith C10	13.33%
Lith G8	13.33%
Lith H9	13.33%
Lith N14	13.33%
Lith R4	13.33%
Lith T10	13.33%
Lith W3	13.33%
Aya	6.67%

 

Olympus droptable:

A		B		C
Lith C10	14.29%	Lith C10	14.29%	Meso B8	14.29%
Lith G8	14.29%	Lith G8	14.29%	Meso C9	14.29%
Lith H9	14.29%	Lith H9	14.29%	Meso G5	14.29%
Lith N14	14.29%	Lith N14	14.29%	Meso M4	14.29%
Lith R4	14.29%	Lith R4	14.29%	Meso P13	14.29%
Lith T10	14.29%	Lith T10	14.29%	Meso P14	14.29%
Lith W3	14.29%	Lith W3	14.29%	Meso W3	14.29%

 

If you want Lith G8 it is no brainer to run Hepit instead of Olympus. WIth Meso and Neo relics it is a bit different because Ukko Droptable has both Meso and Neo so you cannot target one type, but it is still more efficient than any Disruption would ever be.

[(XBOX)Apparentthreat]

5 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

If you want Lith G8 it is no brainer to run Hepit instead of Olympus. WIth Meso and Neo relics it is a bit different because Ukko Droptable has both Meso and Neo so you cannot target one type, but it is still more efficient than any Disruption would ever be.

I think I’ve blocked Void Capture from my mind from previous relic grinds 😅.

Going back to how players may never see a Rotation A reward, though.
If the condition to meet Rotation A means failing the conditions to Rotations B and C, do you think Rotation A for Disruption should exist or contain relics at all? 

Another alternative I can think of is the first round of Disruption should start at 1 conduit and always reward Rotation A.
Round 2 would have two conduits with Rotations A and B rewards depending on number defended.
Round 3 would three conduits with Rotations A, B, and C rewards depending on number defended.
Round 4 would contain all four conduits like normal.
The subsequent rounds would act like Round 4 like they currently do. 

Something like this would help speed up Disruption for players wanting Rotations B and C rewards.
It would also allow the insane and/or uninformed to leave after the first Rotation A (i.e. Round 1) 😆
I guess this would also let anyone playing Disruption just for Star Chart completion quickly finish the mission and still learn the mechanism. 

This isn’t necessarily a “there are alternatives to Disruption” but a “In a vacuum, how can Disruption be better and respect a player’s time” (like that login survey we’ll sometimes see). If the answer is “Disruption is fine the way it is” then I guess that’s that.