Suggestion for inaros rework to make him viable and original

[Redrigoth]

Passive:

• When inaros dies, if any sand shadows are active he kills them instead and heals 5% max per shadow (requires atleast 3 shadows to be available). He gains 1 second of invincibility per shadow. Shadows explode and blind all enemies within 5m of the shadow for 3 seconds with an animation where the sand shadows glow and are absorbed into inaros to help notify that the passive triggered.  This ability then goes on a 60 second cooldown which is reduced by 1 second per finisher kill.
• Abilities can create sand shadows up to a maximum of 6.
• Sand shadows explode on expiry or death into scarabs and stagger enemies within 4m for 3 seconds.
• Shadows function like the original enemy and have the same stats as the enemy they spawned out of.
• Inaros gains 4 health and 1 armor permanently every time a sand shadow dies. His scarab armor is also replenished by 1%
• Sand shadows remain within 50m of inaros
• Inaros has scarab armor counter that can be increased by his abilities. While scarab armor is active, inaros has some kind of damage pillows and instant attenuation that diminishes over 2 seconds attenuation similar to archons that works with his scarab armor counter and his total armor value including the armor stacks from inaros's passive (DE can figure out a formula that is balanced at all levels from 1-9999 so you can die if you don't play properly but survive multiple hits if you leverage stacking, dodging, not taking too many hits at once.) Maybe the behavior could vary for bullets, melee, status procs, and abilities like blitz eximus to balance punishment for not dodging. Taking hits erodes scarab armor. 1% for bullets, 2% for melee attacks, 30% for eximus abilities. When all scarab armor stacks are lost, a puff of scarabs appears on inaros and he gains invulnerability for (0.02 seconds * highest scarab armor value that existed in the last 5 seconds)
• On finisher kill, refill scarab armor by 1%

Ability 1:

• Same thing as now but has additional effects
• Has a 30% chance(affected by strength) to create a sand shadow on finisher kill while the debuff is active. Sand shadow lasts for 10 seconds(affected by duration mods)
• Augment mod: Doubles chance to create clones and all clones do x2 damage (affected by strength mods) and gain 300 armor(affected by strength). You can create multiple clones with over 100% chance

Ability 2:

• On hold, draw an enemy in and start consuming them, same as now. Applies debuff to enemy that lasts for 3 seconds. If the enemy dies while the debuff is on, then it creates a sand shadow that lasts for 30 seconds(affected by duration mods).
• Devour deals 5% max true damage per second(affected by viral/magnetic status). Enemy that dies while being devoured increases inaros's health permanently by (5 * 0.1 * percent of enemy health/shield bar consumed, so 50 for consuming a full bar) points and 10% of that value as armor. ( affected by ability strength)
• Sand shadow created with this ability have their armor/shield multiplied by a number based on the enemy's current level. They remains within 20m of inaros and attack the thing inaros is attacking if it is within 20m of inaros. This sand shadow is also marked to distinguish it from other shadows(this helps with holding one minion to trigger passive in a 1v1 against a strong target and with choosing an enemy to provide utility such as an eximus or ancient)
• Can only have 2 shadows created by this ability active at once. Creating more will expire the oldest one. These 2 are in addition to the 6 from the passive
• These shadows replenish scarab armor by 5% on death
• Augment mod: While inaros is holding the ability button he can continue pulling and consuming the current enemy and can move the cursor over 2 additional enemies to pull and consume simultaneously. Increases tether range from 50 to 75 as well. You can release the button and target other enemies to drag in as well if you want to group enemies for some reason. Once released, enemies that were being devoured fumble around in the sand for a second or 2 before getting up and attacking you.

Ability 3:

• Creates a channeled 15m radius(affected by range mod) sand storm around inaros that reduces enemy accuracy by 30% within its radius.
• Replenishes scarab armor by 1% per 2 seconds and inaros gains 25% evasion while this ability is active
• Enemies that die within a storm's radius replenish scarab armor by 1% and have a 10% chance(affected by strength mod) to create a sand shadow for 10 seconds(affected by duration mods).
• Enemies within the storm get 10% vulnerability.
• Change augment mod to Desert Winds which lets the storm apply 1 cold or 1 heat proc every 2 seconds depending on if you cast it with a button tap or a button hold. Augment mod also increases the storm's base radius by 5m and increases chance to create shadow on death to 20%

Ability 4:

• Holding the ability sacrifices health to charge scarab armor same as now(remove armor gain and increase inaros base armor a proportionate amount to reduce calculation complexity)
• Enemies that die while affected have a 50% chance to produce a sand shadow that lasts for 5 seconds(affected by duration mods).
• Inaros can tap the ability while not targeting an enemy to sacrifice 35% scarab armor to summon 1 Inaros sand shadow that is as durable as your are but it can't cast abilities. It uses your currently equipped weapon. It functions the same as other clones in regards to triggering the passive
• lose 10% of charge per second in nullifier bubble instead of 100% instantly. Cannot be removed by falling out of the map or by getting silenced

 

Surviving can be done with a variety of ways.

• A build that emphasizes shadows and finishers to constantly leverage the passive, which lets you be somewhat tanky but constantly doing death denial
• Mass evasion, accuracy debuffs and blinding/slows, to be reasonably tanky and reducing the instances of damage you take
• Emphasizing scaling hp, armor and scarab gains and neglecting range to be passively heavily tanky and just keeping your health and scarabs topped off
• Some hybrid of the above where you dodge some damage, tank some damage, occasionally do a death denial

There will be higher or lower damage attenuation and pillows based on depending on the build and emphasis on scaling so it balances out. Builds can focus on range, or strength or duration or some mix. You may or may not want to use Adaptation or Rage/Adrenaline depending on the build and mode you plan to play in

 

Credits for post modification due to feedback:

kerozen666 for changing sandstorm from castable to channeled aura to leverage "while channeling" mechanics and for removing overguard mechanics which interfere with Rage/Hunter adrenaline synergy

chainchompguy3 for reducing kit complexity and overload

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Redrigoth
made adjustments based on commenter feedback

[chainchompguy3]

OP, because you more-or-less reached out to me, I'm assuming you want my feedback/criticism on this Rework Proposal.

 

Unfortunately, I have nothing good to say about this Rework Proposal. The individual ideas, at the core, are not bad. But there are so many (too many), added on top, and every single one of them proposed in a specific kind of way. In a way that feels like it was added not because it would actually be fun/interesting, but because it'd be strong, and you're assuming that strong=fun. It's a stitched-together mess of an idea, that I don't really like at all.

My personal opinion is NOT the be-all-end-all. I'm not the arbiter of Inaros. Not even a Dev. So if you still like the idea, don't let my opinion drag you down.

 

If you want more detailed criticism, though, then:

• Scaling-Healthbar. Overguard-gating-survival. Powerfully effective avoid-death mechanic. Pick ONE (1), and that can be the big buff to Inaros's tankiness. Adding all three like this is just obscene. Feels like a kid's "everything-proof-shield".
• I am very doubtful that an "Endlessly stacking Healthbar" will ever make it's way into Warframe. It will almost certainly have a cap.
• Sand-shadow focus is a direction to take Inaros, sure. But, to my mind, you don't vary it enough for it to avoid stepping on Nekros/Revenant/Nyx's toes. I also, personally, find it boring.
• Adding differentiation between the different types of sand-shadows (varying healthpool buffs, varying durations, etc) is needlessly confusing.
• Sandstorm receives massive buffs, yet receives a reduced energy cost?! And 4 of them? Compare what you wrote for sandstorm, with Oberon's Hallowed Ground. Same cost/concept, Massively different power levels. And Oberon, not Inaros, is supposedly the more caster-y of between the two of them.
• On a slightly more positive note, your Scarab Armor "overguard-charges" idea could be interesting, and in fact I could see it being the basis behind an entire new frame, if tweaked right. But again, as it is in this rework, it's way too much for Inaros.
• Entire rework as a whole lacks throughline. You have ideas of how you'd play using it, but it has no *inherent* playstyle, because what's there is buried under so much extra chaff. Adding too many distracting elements ruins the "Natural feel" of a well-designed playstyle, making it feel cluttered.

 

Good luck, have fun.

[kerozen666]

I saw overguard and automaticly i was turned off. Inaros has no shields, you know what that mean? with only one mod, you have limitless energy when fighting. overguard currently prevent that. on my end i have been pondering on a way to save our boy from a 1 shot, and what would be more fitting is actually providint a way to access damage attenuation, like archons. 

[Redrigoth]

3 hours ago, kerozen666 said:

I saw overguard and automaticly i was turned off. Inaros has no shields, you know what that mean? with only one mod, you have limitless energy when fighting. overguard currently prevent that. on my end i have been pondering on a way to save our boy from a 1 shot, and what would be more fitting is actually providint a way to access damage attenuation, like archons. 

That was one of the concerns I had. Currently I use hunter adrenaline to keep energy pool up. This is an advantage of not having shields. One reason I used small overguard values and added a variety of ways to get them was to keep health somewhat vulnerable and then that passive exists for the situation where the damage is too much for his health. All the evasion and blinding is to give you room to get finishers to get that passive back online. From the other person's comment this does seem like a lot of bloat and fine management for this game. I considered damage attenuation as an alternative which would greatly simplify things and the passive scaling health and armor would help stabilize it but at the same time, you have to eat damage to get attenuated and that damage can one shot you.
Maybe scarab armor can provide percent based damage caps while it exists. Each hit you take can deplete it by 2%. The current augment that depletes it on blocking status effect would have to deplete it less to make the drain more feasible. The health and armor scaling from dead shadows can also scale you up so you can have enough effective hp to survive any one shot at a given level assuming you've been spawning shadows to scale with.
Maybe this allows using evasion and scarab armor as the main survivability tool while having the passive as a backstop for when things get too chaotic. Or maybe each dead shadow replenishes scarab armor by 1%

[Redrigoth]

18 hours ago, chainchompguy3 said:

OP, because you more-or-less reached out to me, I'm assuming you want my feedback/criticism on this Rework Proposal.

 

Unfortunately, I have nothing good to say about this Rework Proposal. The individual ideas, at the core, are not bad. But there are so many (too many), added on top, and every single one of them proposed in a specific kind of way. In a way that feels like it was added not because it would actually be fun/interesting, but because it'd be strong, and you're assuming that strong=fun. It's a stitched-together mess of an idea, that I don't really like at all.

My personal opinion is NOT the be-all-end-all. I'm not the arbiter of Inaros. Not even a Dev. So if you still like the idea, don't let my opinion drag you down.

 

If you want more detailed criticism, though, then:

• Scaling-Healthbar. Overguard-gating-survival. Powerfully effective avoid-death mechanic. Pick ONE (1), and that can be the big buff to Inaros's tankiness. Adding all three like this is just obscene. Feels like a kid's "everything-proof-shield".
• I am very doubtful that an "Endlessly stacking Healthbar" will ever make it's way into Warframe. It will almost certainly have a cap.
• Sand-shadow focus is a direction to take Inaros, sure. But, to my mind, you don't vary it enough for it to avoid stepping on Nekros/Revenant/Nyx's toes. I also, personally, find it boring.
• Adding differentiation between the different types of sand-shadows (varying healthpool buffs, varying durations, etc) is needlessly confusing.
• Sandstorm receives massive buffs, yet receives a reduced energy cost?! And 4 of them? Compare what you wrote for sandstorm, with Oberon's Hallowed Ground. Same cost/concept, Massively different power levels. And Oberon, not Inaros, is supposedly the more caster-y of between the two of them.
• On a slightly more positive note, your Scarab Armor "overguard-charges" idea could be interesting, and in fact I could see it being the basis behind an entire new frame, if tweaked right. But again, as it is in this rework, it's way too much for Inaros.
• Entire rework as a whole lacks throughline. You have ideas of how you'd play using it, but it has no *inherent* playstyle, because what's there is buried under so much extra chaff. Adding too many distracting elements ruins the "Natural feel" of a well-designed playstyle, making it feel cluttered.

 

Good luck, have fun.

Thank you for the feedback. Looking back, it does seem that it has too much functionality relative to other frames.

Maybe the sandstorm should be reduce to a single storm at 18m radius. The difference from oberon is oberon can cover the whole area and his grass procs radiation, heals allies and gives status immunity while the sandstorm provides evasion, mobility and sand shadow mechanics.

Maybe all the micro overgaurding should be replaced with damage attenuation and damage pillows using scarab armor interactions. That would simplify it and avoid interference with Rage and Hunter adrenaline mods(concerns raised by another).

The sand shadows may work similarly to nekros in the fact they attack enemies but they last a shorter time and cannot be replenished so you may not be able to maintain an eximus squad like nekros can. They also serve as sacrifices on death to buff and scale inaros or get sacrificed to help him dodge death.
 

What you said about the foolproof everything may have some merit. It would require a lot of overguard management to achieve that. Maybe just having scaling health and armor for high enough effective health to survive multiple shots at the current level is more reasonable, provided you've been scaling.

As for sand shadows, they all have the same duration and behavior except ones created by his 2nd ability which makes special sand shadows. Maybe there should be a cap of 2 special shadows

Edited November 8, 2023 by Redrigoth

[kerozen666]

il y a 22 minutes, Redrigoth a dit :

That was one of the concerns I had. Currently I use hunter adrenaline to keep energy pool up. This is an advantage of not having shields. One reason I used small overguard values and added a variety of ways to get them was to keep health somewhat vulnerable and then that passive exists for the situation where the damage is too much for his health. All the evasion and blinding is to give you room to get finishers to get that passive back online. From the other person's comment this does seem like a lot of bloat and fine management for this game. I considered damage attenuation as an alternative which would greatly simplify things and the passive scaling health and armor would help stabilize it but at the same time, you have to eat damage to get attenuated and that damage can one shot you.
Maybe scarab armor can provide percent based damage caps while it exists. Each hit you take can deplete it by 2%. The current augment that depletes it on blocking status effect would have to deplete it less to make the drain more feasible. The health and armor scaling from dead shadows can also scale you up so you can have enough effective hp to survive any one shot at a given level assuming you've been spawning shadows to scale with.
Maybe this allows using evasion and scarab armor as the main survivability tool while having the passive as a backstop for when things get too chaotic. Or maybe each dead shadow replenishes scarab armor by 1%

if you simply make damage attenuationj instant it solve everything. would preferably be as a separate mods, because that would be an alternative to gating for anyone who can get the health bar going. 

 

Edited November 8, 2023 by kerozen666
typo

[Redrigoth]

18 minutes ago, kerozen666 said:

if you simply make damage attenuationj instant it solve everything. would preferably be as a separate mods, because that would be an alternative to gating for anyone who can get the health bar going. 

 

adjusted original post to incorporate commenter feedback

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

Hmmm...

I'm going to have to agree with the first post. Too much going on here.

Perhaps if you look at what can be done without changing the abilities and their function so much.

 

[Redrigoth]

On 2023-11-08 at 1:31 PM, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Hmmm...

I'm going to have to agree with the first post. Too much going on here.

Perhaps if you look at what can be done without changing the abilities and their function so much.

 

the second and third ability are kinda useless and clunky so they should be changed. 2 and 4 still function similarly but have improved and more relevant effects. Just 3 that got completely changed

I don't think too much is going on after I updated the first post. Sure lots of texts but not much more than other frames and a good amount of it is explaining how things work. In terms of controlling the frame, the complexity was brought down after I edited the post in response to commenter feedback.

Basically cast your sandstorm and fight inside it for buffs, throw sand and do finishers, occasionally use 2 and 4 on enemies and watch your health and scarab armor and make sure you have shadows walking around to leverage the death denial.

You don't even have to care about doing half these things if you want to keep using inaros as a passive tanky brick until higher levels similar to now

Edited November 10, 2023 by Redrigoth

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

19 hours ago, Redrigoth said:

the second and third ability are kinda useless and clunky so they should be changed. 2 and 4 still function similarly but have improved and more relevant effects. Just 3 that got completely changed

I don't think too much is going on after I updated the first post. Sure lots of texts but not much more than other frames and a good amount of it is explaining how things work. In terms of controlling the frame, the complexity was brought down after I edited the post in response to commenter feedback.

Basically cast your sandstorm and fight inside it for buffs, throw sand and do finishers, occasionally use 2 and 4 on enemies and watch your health and scarab armor and make sure you have shadows walking around to leverage the death denial.

You don't even have to care about doing half these things if you want to keep using inaros as a passive tanky brick until higher levels similar to now

I get it.  I suppose I'm just thinking a rework would be better going in a slightly different direction.

kerozen666 made a thread of his own on the subject. (probably in an attempt not to hijack yours). However, I want to link it here to show an example of what I felt would work more.

 

 

[Redrigoth]

23 hours ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

I get it.  I suppose I'm just thinking a rework would be better going in a slightly different direction.

kerozen666 made a thread of his own on the subject. (probably in an attempt not to hijack yours). However, I want to link it here to show an example of what I felt would work more.

 

 

I read it but I think it kind of forces you to play one rigid passive playstyle. Almost feels like an alternative rhino with maintaining survivability by spamming the one ability(iron skin for rhino and 4 for inaros) too.

I do like the idea of the sand storm being a channeled ability unlike the casting requirement I made. It would have the same effect but it could leverage all those 'while channeling' incarnon requirements while still being able to sustain energy with Rage mod since there is no shield/overguard to interfere. Going to incorporate the aura sandstorm aspect.

Edited November 11, 2023 by Redrigoth

[kerozen666]

21 minutes ago, Redrigoth said:

I read it but found it kind of boring since it forces you into that one way to play the frame. Almost feels like an alternative rhino with maintaining survivability by spamming the one ability(iron skin for rhino and 4 for inaros). I do like the idea of the sand storm being a channeled ability unlike the casting requirement I made. It would have the same effect but it could leverage all those 'while channeling' incarnon requirements while still being able to sustain energy with Rage mod since there is no shield/overguard to interfere. Going to incorporate the aura sandstorm aspect.

would not like to hear your takes on harrow then. his kit is all about beign a weapon platfom and you maintain survivability by spamming 1 ability (condemn). Like, you seem to fundamentally miss how Inaros, but also the rules for designing frames in general. Your rework idea  ultimatly makes him the exact same, just with some complex loops that diverge completly of why he is so interesting to some. He is a PASSIVE tank, lean on that instead of creating a survival mechanic that require managing shadows, scarab armor charge, and your health at the same time. you also haven't adressed the main issue with his 2 and 4, which is the cast timebeing so long, your teams has already killed the whole room by the time you are done. And while sand shadows are fun to have to divert bullets, making your whole rework around being a coarser nekros isn't going to do much more to attract people

[Redrigoth]

19 hours ago, kerozen666 said:

would not like to hear your takes on harrow then. his kit is all about beign a weapon platfom and you maintain survivability by spamming 1 ability (condemn). Like, you seem to fundamentally miss how Inaros, but also the rules for designing frames in general. Your rework idea  ultimatly makes him the exact same, just with some complex loops that diverge completly of why he is so interesting to some. He is a PASSIVE tank, lean on that instead of creating a survival mechanic that require managing shadows, scarab armor charge, and your health at the same time. you also haven't adressed the main issue with his 2 and 4, which is the cast timebeing so long, your teams has already killed the whole room by the time you are done. And while sand shadows are fun to have to divert bullets, making your whole rework around being a coarser nekros isn't going to do much more to attract people

Harrow can give team status immunity, crit and fire rate buffs, healing, alongside replenishing his shields all the time. He can serve various roles and can use multiple builds. What would this passive inaros do besides spamming 4 to not die?

My changes allow for passive play styles with certain builds in a wide level range. He also can provide passive increased survivability for teammates with a high range storm build by blinding some enemies with 1 if they happen to be facing him and stacking cold slows or heat staggers over a wide area and his scarabs would also do the healing pulse to everyone in range as they do now.

As for managing health, scarabas and shadows, most of it is passive. You may occasionally have to manually hold 4 to top up the scarabs and use 2 to renew your 2 strong shadows if your build centers around that. The health easily comes from finishers and arcane grace or magus repair.

And shadows aren't nekros 2.0 since they only have % chance to appear unless you are actively using 1 and 2, plus their duration is low and you cant heal them to curate a squad like nekros can. They kind of serve as a distraction and stack/revive sacrifices.

[kerozen666]

2 hours ago, Redrigoth said:

Harrow can give team status immunity, crit and fire rate buffs, healing, alongside replenishing his shields all the time. He can serve various roles and can use multiple builds. What would this passive inaros do besides spamming 4 to not die?

My changes allow for passive play styles with certain builds in a wide level range. He also can provide passive increased survivability for teammates with a high range storm build by blinding some enemies with 1 if they happen to be facing him and stacking cold slows or heat staggers over a wide area and his scarabs would also do the healing pulse to everyone in range as they do now.

As for managing health, scarabas and shadows, most of it is passive. You may occasionally have to manually hold 4 to top up the scarabs and use 2 to renew your 2 strong shadows if your build centers around that. The health easily comes from finishers and arcane grace or magus repair.

And shadows aren't nekros 2.0 since they only have % chance to appear unless you are actively using 1 and 2, plus their duration is low and you cant heal them to curate a squad like nekros can. They kind of serve as a distraction and stack/revive sacrifices.

your rework preovide litterally the same amount of build diversity as mine, but yours doesn't remove the worst part of his kit. you still have to stand around to recharge your 4, and you still take 20 second to kill ONE enemy with your 2 just ot create ONE shadow. all you've done so far is just add some health scaling to a frame without making it actually interesting to play, just the same base kit but more complex. wait no, your 3 is alright.... because you changed it to basicly be mine. Also, claiming ther eis no group heal and survivability in my writing is just lying. reand the reworked devour. So please, learn to read and understand what people dislike before attempting to armchair gamedesign

[Redrigoth]

44 minutes ago, kerozen666 said:

your rework preovide litterally the same amount of build diversity as mine, but yours doesn't remove the worst part of his kit. you still have to stand around to recharge your 4, and you still take 20 second to kill ONE enemy with your 2 just ot create ONE shadow. all you've done so far is just add some health scaling to a frame without making it actually interesting to play, just the same base kit but more complex. wait no, your 3 is alright.... because you changed it to basicly be mine. Also, claiming ther eis no group heal and survivability in my writing is just lying. reand the reworked devour. So please, learn to read and understand what people dislike before attempting to armchair gamedesign

The only thing i took out of your 3 is the channeled vs cast aspect

Regarding the 2, It is affected by viral/magnetic(left magnetic out) so you can do 15% max per second. You can theoretically use it to eat demolysts while being interrupted every time they pulse their silence.
I did give it a fixed duration affected by duration mods. So you can eat a half dead enemy in 2 seconds to create the clone that would last for atleast 30 seconds. It is the scaling health gain that scales more with duration. (probably better to change it to %max of enemy consumed to better work with the viral/magnetic. (updated the 2 ability and added an augment mod)

As for his 4 needing charge, you would only charge it in the beginning and occasionally since the kit gives you evasion, accuracy debuffs and blinds which helps avoid stack loss and the rest of the kit passively refills scarabs by small amounts per enemy killed which further helps reduce how often you have to manually charge it. It's more passive maintenance than it seems. It also gives you the option to summon an inaros clone in moments where you need a breather/distraction(this clone should be tanky enough to last for a few seconds before dying since it cant heal).

 

Oh and another reason why these shadows arent nekros clones 2.0 is the fact nekros has shield of shadows which can give him 90% damage reduction. Throw in adaptation and some armor and he gets 99.6% damage reduction.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Redrigoth

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

On 2023-11-11 at 12:42 PM, Redrigoth said:

I read it but I think it kind of forces you to play one rigid passive playstyle. Almost feels like an alternative rhino with maintaining survivability by spamming the one ability(iron skin for rhino and 4 for inaros) too.

I personally don't find problem with this type of functionality. As it stands there are multiple abilities that provide this type of protection in some form.

Warding Halo

Iron Skin

Mezmer skin

Merulina. 

Nidus Mutation stacks (Undying Passive).

I prefer the ones with infinite duration that work on health or charges over protection abilities like 

turbulence

Null star

shatter shield

splinter storm

Also in normal star chart and lower steel path it wouldn't be something that you would need to spam all the time. Just refresh when it goes off. Exactly like the similar abilities mentioned above. 

[Redrigoth]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

I personally don't find problem with this type of functionality. As it stands there are multiple abilities that provide this type of protection in some form.

Warding Halo

Iron Skin

Mezmer skin

Merulina. 

Nidus Mutation stacks (Undying Passive).

I prefer the ones with infinite duration that work on health or charges over protection abilities like 

turbulence

Null star

shatter shield

splinter storm

Also in normal star chart and lower steel path it wouldn't be something that you would need to spam all the time. Just refresh when it goes off. Exactly like the similar abilities mentioned above. 

what's the point of being a large health pool tank if you get one shot and have to spam invuln all the same? Wouldn't a large health + damage attenuation that lets you survive  multiple hits(number of hits increases as there is more available hp) make more sense? That gives some worth to the lifesteal and health tanking aspect.

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

On 2023-11-17 at 2:02 PM, Redrigoth said:

what's the point of being a large health pool tank if you get one shot and have to spam invuln all the same? Wouldn't a large health + damage attenuation that lets you survive  multiple hits(number of hits increases as there is more available hp) make more sense? That gives some worth to the lifesteal and health tanking aspect.

Attenuation that would allow for health tanking high level content is just too strong. Especially when you consider all abilities that have a potential to work that way have been capped in their effect (Defy for example).

Current Inaros isn't often one shot in standard steel path content. Aside from the Namer mask shot and sentient lasers. He isn't often one shot in Archon hunts either. 

So his tank health aspect is there.  It just needs a bit more forgiveness. 

That's personally why I see the value in an ability that cheats death in the way described. It also fits with his theme in my opinion.

As it sounds much like the Undying King from Remnant. The change I mentioned to his passive would also be a massive boost to him in my opinion. 

To reiterate it. Inaros instead of killing an enemy to revive, just has to catch/eat one.  It would work similarly to grendel's ability so you just suck one guy in and you are immediately revived. (Which also gives it an edge over last gasp).

The problem with attenuation as a mechanic for the player is that DE has to figure out the formula for it. If it's too strong it will be nerfed to irrelevance. Too weak and it achieves nothing. By comparison there are multiple cheat death mechanics currently existing and not only do they require less from a development side. They don't feel so strong in practice that frames exhibiting them are the only way to play the game. 

 

[kerozen666]

On 2023-11-21 at 6:24 PM, (XBOX)Big Roy 324 said:

Attenuation that would allow for health tanking high level content is just too strong. Especially when you consider all abilities that have a potential to work that way have been capped in their effect (Defy for example).

Current Inaros isn't often one shot in standard steel path content. Aside from the Namer mask shot and sentient lasers. He isn't often one shot in Archon hunts either. 

So his tank health aspect is there.  It just needs a bit more forgiveness. 

That's personally why I see the value in an ability that cheats death in the way described. It also fits with his theme in my opinion.

As it sounds much like the Undying King from Remnant. The change I mentioned to his passive would also be a massive boost to him in my opinion. 

To reiterate it. Inaros instead of killing an enemy to revive, just has to catch/eat one.  It would work similarly to grendel's ability so you just suck one guy in and you are immediately revived. (Which also gives it an edge over last gasp).

The problem with attenuation as a mechanic for the player is that DE has to figure out the formula for it. If it's too strong it will be nerfed to irrelevance. Too weak and it achieves nothing. By comparison there are multiple cheat death mechanics currently existing and not only do they require less from a development side. They don't feel so strong in practice that frames exhibiting them are the only way to play the game. 

 

I mean, attanuation is something i'd love to see implemented tho. it's what would allow tank player to trully feel like one. that said, as long as you stay in the standard levels the devs designed the game for, you're all good to go and don't really need it. it's just the idea of further level being something you can access that kind of toy with expectation. now you want to be able to do those if you want, but the only way is through gating. Also, for that inaros rework, i put the death prevention there mostly because i wanted something that was achievable short term. if we get attenuation, i'd be happier