A Complete Rework Of The Foundation Of Warframe.

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

It's all good, read most of it, liked what i read, but what about most of us forumers who spent hundreds of forma (plat and real money on the formaing road as well)?

 

I see absolutely no mention of Forma, that's a mistake.

[GSrevolution]

It's all good, read most of it, liked what i read, but what about most of us forumers who spent hundreds of forma (plat and real money on the formaing road as well)?

 

I see absolutely no mention of Forma, that's a mistake.

 

 

From the first page:

Forma and Potatoes are a relic of the old design and serve no place in the new system. They were merely a way for them to get money out of people unwilling to wait for Alerts. Forma has also become a hurdle for people looking to start a clan. They should have never made Forma a building material. Forma has also made any advantages of Prime Warframes virtually nonexistent.

 

The lack of weapon customization is inherent. The guns themselves should create that variance. That means people who like the Tigris can use it and equip attachments to accentuate its positives and hide the negatives. It means people can play with the guns they like.

 

As for the melee, I am working on expanding it as we speak. More visuals and better explanations across the board.

[Star_Raven]

Yes.

No.

Yes.

NO!

YES!!!!!

ARGH!!!!

 

OK, I love some of this, but I hate a lot too.

 

Really, the main thing that I disagree with is replacing the card system with a skill tree. I love how much customization it offers, and hate how skill trees are like: "OK, you've tried out that build? Well now your stuck without! TROLOLOL!!!"

[(PSN)DanteVincent]

From the first page:

I would discuss that but it is so absurd that i dont even need to, people NEED to be compensated if such a thing were to happen.

 

And the thing about grabbing money, well they already allowed us to trade prime stuff, potentially losing sales on their prime acesses, what else do you guys want? The army of salvation to keep developing the game for us? The red cross?

 

The only thing i spend plat on aside from customization is forma and i am sure many others sitting in tons of plat too, you cant just ignora hundreds of hours and dollars spent, if TC is serious about this it needs to be better thought.

[DeadlyFred]

I guess that just illustrates the problem inherent to charging money for something before its actually done... makes it hard to go back and make changes which might impact the value of someone's "investment"...

[toolofdarkness]

for forma i do agree that we need to be compensated but not if the form of game currency just give us back the forma that we put in to our weps like what planetside 2 did when they removed ninite armor from some characters. 

 

 

 

on another note i have created a straw poll on this topic. just click the linky and select your answer. http://strawpoll.me/1594957

Edited April 28, 2014 by toolofdarkness

[Guest Tehnoobshow]

When people leave, more people will come. You can't please everybody, but you can please the majority, and there are a lot more new players than veterans. Just look at Jagex and RuneScape. There's a reason they're still alive today. It's because every few years they completely remake the game. Sure, old players leave, but tons more new players come. Also, regarding compensation for forma, since when have businesses ever cared about ripping off its customers?

[Zirion_Bk]

When people leave, more people will come. You can't please everybody, but you can please the majority, and there are a lot more new players than veterans. Just look at Jagex and RuneScape. There's a reason they're still alive today. It's because every few years they completely remake the game. Sure, old players leave, but tons more new players come. Also, regarding compensation for forma, since when have businesses ever cared about ripping off its customers?

So you are basically saying "Screw old players." and "de doesn't care about the money we've spent." Good troll sir.

[Hafilgar]

I'd love to see a complete overhaul too...but after melee 2.0, I'm not so sure they're ready for another one. What would be ideal is if your post convinced them to make incremental changes  in accordance to your ideas. Your concept is solid.

 

I just hope DE doesn't simply just settle by giving every warframe and weapon additional slots to cover up this recurring flaw. (although short term, it would be fun to play with more variety of mods, but long term they would have to keep adding more mod slots for people)

[low1991]

-cut-

hate me for all you want, i know what you want to implement. but a no is a no.

unless you'r working on "WarFrame 2" you'r idea will bascially destroys everything WF has to offer now and fill them up with new stuff.

 

no +1 from me, if there is a -1, i will.

[Tengu-musume]

hate me for all you want, i know what you want to implement. but a no is a no.

unless you'r working on "WarFrame 2" you'r idea will bascially destroys everything WF has to offer now and fill them up with new stuff.

 

no +1 from me, if there is a -1, i will.

Destroy? What is there to destroy?

Other than Mynki's artwork, Warframe is a joke. A flashy one.

It's a grindfest disguised as cool 3rd person co-op shooter that is forever stuck in beta.

His suggestions, if DE takes them, would make Warframe shine.

[Zirion_Bk]

Destroy? What is there to destroy?

Other than Mynki's artwork, Warframe is a joke. A flashy one.

It's a grindfest disguised as cool 3rd person co-op shooter that is forever stuck in beta.

His suggestions, if DE takes them, would make Warframe shine.

I don't know how many times I'll say this, but the game can be made as good as op suggests without the need for a COMPLETE overhaul. And yes, the game is a grindfest, that's true. But that doesn't warrant a complete overhaul that takes down several unique parts of Warframe and replaces them with systems taken (or completely copy pasted in the melee combat's case) from other games.

[low1991]

Destroy? What is there to destroy?

Other than Mynki's artwork, Warframe is a joke. A flashy one.

It's a grindfest disguised as cool 3rd person co-op shooter that is forever stuck in beta.

His suggestions, if DE takes them, would make Warframe shine.

sorry, we have our own different point of view. if you dont look at it this way. there's no point explainning it to you.

i just posting out my own opinion.

[Tengu-musume]

sorry, we have our own different point of view. if you dont look at it this way. there's no point explainning it to you.

i just posting out my own opinion.

Yes we do have different points of view on this matter.

I didn't ask you to explain anything to me.

And yes you are just posting your opinion.

Good job stating the obvious.

 

I don't know how many times I'll say this, but the game can be made as good as op suggests without the need for a COMPLETE overhaul. And yes, the game is a grindfest, that's true. But that doesn't warrant a complete overhaul that takes down several unique parts of Warframe and replaces them with systems taken (or completely copy pasted in the melee combat's case) from other games.

Tell me, what makes Warframe unique that OP's suggestions would take away?

[Zirion_Bk]

Tell me, what makes Warframe unique that OP's suggestions would take away?

The mod system. It is not unsalvageable no matter what anyone says. Some balancing of the stats and guns and some changes to the mod slots would do the trick. Skill trees on the other hand are used in almost every single rpg out there (No unique nature there) and attachments are a common sight in shooters. (Unique? Hah) And the melee system is a copy and paste from Remember Me with the addition of stances and reduction of customization.

Tell me, what in OP's suggestion lets Warframe stay unique?

[CBAROG]

It is not mods that makes Warframe "unique" but art. And if there's a choice between "unique" grindfest (that Warframe is turning into) and a shooter that takes something from other games but makes it better, I'd choose the latter.

[kaboomonme]

It is not mods that makes Warframe "unique" but art. And if there's a choice between "unique" grindfest (that Warframe is turning into) and a shooter that takes something from other games but makes it better, I'd choose the latter.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Cryp2Nite]

The mod system. It is not unsalvageable no matter what anyone says. Some balancing of the stats and guns and some changes to the mod slots would do the trick.

 

I have to disagree. The 6 (10) available mod slots are far to few to make knockdown/resists/tool (equilibrium) etc. related mods viable.

No matter how you balance that out. There are core gameplay elements, and the corresponding mods will always be much more useful

than the other stuff. And right now we even have more of the "other stuff" than the core things - and they are simply not used.

 

The current system is lame and boring, and the only choices you have to make are related to the environment you are playing,

and the skills you are using.

 

I don't say it's necessary to take the mod system out and introduce some sort of skill tree, but the current system will stay dull even if

DE do some balancing (and we all know that's not really one of their core characteristics).

[Tengu-musume]

The mod system. It is not unsalvageable no matter what anyone says. Some balancing of the stats and guns and some changes to the mod slots would do the trick.

 

DE themselves said that stat-scaling enemies in endless waves/min is not endgame.

This means you cannot create balance because there is no basis.

Look at Boltor Prime. Ridiculously OP in low and mid lvl games, but useful in the "endgame".

In order to balance Boltor Prime, before you even look at other weapons, you'd have to look at the endgame.

After endgame is set, all adjustments can follow.

 

But it's not that simple.

As mentioned in the OP and Cryp2Nite above, simply adjusting numbers after setting an endgame will be painfully boring.

Fighting against ______ faction? Ok, equip this combo: _______ and spam left-click in their faces.

People will bring gear with full dmg mod builds, allowing no creativity and challenge.

"Spam, dodge, spam, dodge, spam, oh it's not working anymore, extract."

 

Skill trees on the other hand are used in almost every single rpg out there (No unique nature there) and attachments are a common sight in shooters. (Unique? Hah)

 

Uniqueness comes from how something is implemented, not what is implemented.

 

There are timeless things in game design. Having a well-crafted progression system is one of them.

The tree system would not only give the players an actual sense of progression, but also breathe uniqueness into each player's warframes since their builds will be based on their personal choices. There is so much uniqueness to come from this.

 

Yes attachments are common in shooters. That's not a good excuse to say Warframe shouldn't have one.

Attachments are always welcomed. People love having their own combinations of attachments on things.

It can only be a good thing for Warframe right now. Sci-fi things like the Barrel Diffusion mod can really use some substance.

 

And the melee system is a copy and paste from Remember Me with the addition of stances and reduction of customization.

That's completely fine.  That game is known to have overdone it anyway. Warframe doesn't need it overly complicated.

The OP states again and again that he's just suggesting templates.

 

Tell me, what in OP's suggestion lets Warframe stay unique?

Stay? No. More unique.

 

Tree system / Separate pools of points system

Players are diversified in their builds. Useful utility mods no longer have to take the place of essential mods.

 

Attachments

By eliminating the stupid base dmg mods (Serration, Hornet Strike, Point Blank) that no one builds a weapon without to begin with, mods will no longer make the gun. This means that the "balance" you mentioned can be achieved much easier. And that means players will be able to use whatever weapon they like and not feel overly inferior to the current average Boltor Prime user.

 

Melee

Unless you simply glanced at the image without reading what OP wrote, you cannot possibly think that melee will lose uniqueness.

It will offer more choices than the current melee system.

 

 

Warframe is stagnating.

As an MR 15 player with nothing left to rank up, I can clearly see just how much Warframe would benefit from the OP's suggestions.

[Zirion_Bk]

I have to disagree. The 6 (10) available mod slots are far to few to make knockdown/resists/tool (equilibrium) etc. related mods viable.

No matter how you balance that out. There are core gameplay elements, and the corresponding mods will always be much more useful

than the other stuff. And right now we even have more of the "other stuff" than the core things - and they are simply not used.

 

The current system is lame and boring, and the only choices you have to make are related to the environment you are playing,

and the skills you are using.

Then I refer to an idea some pages back in this thread again. That idea does this:

Give us utility slots for weapons and warframes where mods like Intruder or equilibrium can be put in without sharing space with Blind Rage.

Removes levels of utility mods and makes them give flat bonuses. These mods can be stacked by placing duplicates in the slots.

Weapon stats scale with level and damage mods are heavily nerfed, making them more optional.

Also, you are wrong about choice. I can make a choice whether to focus my build on melee or ranged, damage or utility, agility or defense. Saying that there is no choice is actually a lie. Especially with weapons and warframes with the potential to focus on different ways of modding.

[Tengu-musume]

Also, you are wrong about choice. I can make a choice whether to focus my build on melee or ranged, damage or utility, agility or defense. Saying that there is no choice is actually a lie.

 

Cryp2Nite didn't say there is no choice. Rather, that the environment and abilities you're using decide what you choose.

 

 

Especially with weapons and warframes with the potential to focus on different ways of modding.

 

That potential right now in Warframe is not what you make it sound like.

Entertaining those "different ways of modding" is foolishness right now:

 

Giving players the ability to gimp their effectiveness via poor design choices is just stupid. What this showcases is too much choice, for the wrong reasons. Just because someone can, doesn’t mean they should. What my skill tree does is eliminates bad choices, so what it comes down to is preference. People like to play Ember. She was previously seen as a viable tank. Sure people can still spec all shields, health and armor; but the fun was the balance between high damage and defense via her powers. As I stated above, give that choice back to the players.

 

Simply adding utility slots and nerfing dmg mods are only going to contribute to Warframe's stagnation.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Chlora

[XRAY0128]

^ I think it could be balanced so that they are viable, but first, mods like Serration and Vitality need to be a lot weaker. 

 

But for those to be a lot weaker, enemy scaling has to be a lot less.

[TheFuryCro]

All of this, I like it.

[Tengu-musume]

^ I think it could be balanced so that they are viable, but first, mods like Serration and Vitality need to be a lot weaker. 

 

But for those to be a lot weaker, enemy scaling has to be a lot less.

There cannot be balance without DE first setting the endgame. That balance is of a different topic.

Serration and other base dmg mods need to go away entirely so that we don't have another case of Boltor Prime.

The skill tree system is a thousand times better than nerfing Vitality.

Less "enemy scaling" just means a slower increase in enemy stats. Which basically means you want to transplant the broken endgame we have now directly into the future. Please, we need smarter enemies, not just scaling enemies. This is of a different topic also.

[XRAY0128]

There cannot be balance without DE first setting the endgame. That balance is of a different topic.

Serration and other base dmg mods need to go away entirely so that we don't have another case of Boltor Prime.

The skill tree system is a thousand times better than nerfing Vitality.

Less "enemy scaling" just means a slower increase in enemy stats. Which basically means you want to transplant the broken endgame we have now directly into the future. Please, we need smarter enemies, not just scaling enemies. This is of a different topic also.

 

 I would prefer something like that, its just that I don't see DE actually doing anything major.