I hope Smeeta gets the Carrier treatment

[KitMeHarder]

By that I mean how back in the day Carrier was the only companion that could use Vacuum. But instead of nerfing Carrier because of its high usage rates, every sentinel was made to be able to use Vacuum (and all companions later on). This is a much healthier approach IMO. And for context I'm only talking about the resource/affinity boost, Smeeta would keep all of the other Charm buffs. This is how I'd make the mod.

• Charm
  • Once every 60 seconds your companion has a 25% chance to double all affinity and pickups for the next 90 seconds. These values are fixed.

The "fixed" part means it's unaffected by things such as Manifold Bond, Tek Enhance, etc... to prevent a new "best" companion from arising. And these values should make it so we have a bit more uptime and more consistency compared to the old Charm+Tek Enhance, but without the massive multiplicative stacking potential in exchange.

------------------

Now for Smeeta, after this specific buff is removed, I think the rest of the precept should get a buff/refresh.

• Fortuitous Bounty - Should have it's proc chance increased to 100% and cooldown increased to 35 seconds.
  • Crit Chance - Change it to +200% additive crit chance like Avenger, as otherwise this buff is often a nerf in 2024.
  • Energy Refund - Have it also restore a portion/all of your max energy. Otherwise, increase the duration.
  • Instant Reload - Have it also restore a portion of your ammo reserves or give us something like brief infinite ammo.
  • Reinforced Shields - Have it restore all of your shields instead (I also wouldn't mind some/max overshields either).
  • Rare Resource - Fine as is, but it could be more visually apparent when it triggers. More resources could also be added to the pool (i.e. Toroids).

Smeeta's precept will need to be buffed one-way-or-another, but these suggestions aren't really the point of the thread. These are just here as examples really.

[Voltage]

I think Smeeta would be perfectly fine if they just removed the double drops portion and kept it as Affinity only while also removing the stacking behavior. Smeeta would still be a valuable tool for leveling and farming things like Focus/Intrinsics in that way. There's just no way to reduce the dominance of the mod if it doubles drops.

I do think Smeeta has heavily influenced how economies are balanced, especially things like Steel Essence, Vitus Essence, etc.

Edited January 17 by Voltage

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

There's just no way to reduce the dominance of the mod if it doubles drops.

Except for exactly what I suggested. If everyone has it, it can't truly be "dominate" in a conventional sense. Like i.e. I wouldn't call Vacuum "dominate".

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

I do think Smeeta has heavily influenced how economies are balanced, especially things like Steel Essence, Vitus Essence, etc.

I agree, they have definitely strayed away from older "economy" styles. But I doubt it's just Smeeta, it's almost everything that speeds up the farm drop-wise. Even dominate frames like Nekros and Speedva are less and less relevant each patch.

1 hour ago, Voltage said:

I think Smeeta would be perfectly fine if they just removed the double drops portion and kept it as Affinity only

Much too niche IMO without a significant buff to the success rate of activating a buff.

[Voltage]

1 minute ago, KitMeHarder said:

Much too niche IMO without a significant buff to the success rate of activating a buff.

That should be the entire point of companion precepts: strong niches for where they can perform. Strong general use buffs are why situations like Carrier or Smeeta happen. Giving every player Charm on all companions would just be massive powercreep where it's not warranted.

[KitMeHarder]

3 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Giving every player Charm on all companions would just be massive powercreep where it's not warranted.

It's not, it's about increasing choice. We already have Charm. Was adding Fetch to Kubrows/Kavats "massive powercreep"?

And it's not all of Charm, it's just the double buff with a majority of it's stacking potential removed.

5 minutes ago, Voltage said:

That should be the entire point of companion precepts: strong niches for where they can perform.

Only getting a certain buff on average every 578 seconds is too niche no matter how you put it. Even if you remove the double drops, Smeeta will not just be "affinity only". There are 5 other buffs that I'd also like to use. The chance of them occurring shouldn't be so poor that I ONLY use Smeeta for affinity.

Present Charm only has the horrible consistency it has today because of the double buff. Remove/nerf that and you need to add consistency back.

10 minutes ago, Voltage said:

Strong general use buffs

Don't confuses "general" and reliable. Diriga for example may not be for every frame, as not every frame needs a CO proccer. But Diriga is still reliable at it's job.

[Voltage]

7 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

It's not, it's about increasing choice. We already have Charm. Was adding Fetch to Kubrows/Kavats "massive powercreep"?

These are not comparable in any way. Fetch is akin to Enemy Radar whereas Charm is akin to Desecrate. They are fundamentally completely different mechanics. One is a utility, and one is a staple farming mechanism.

7 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Only getting a certain buff on average every 578 seconds is too niche no matter how you put it. Even if you remove the double drops, Smeeta will not just be "affinity only". There are 5 other buffs that I'd also like to use. The chance of them occurring shouldn't be so poor that I ONLY use Smeeta for affinity.

Present Charm only has the horrible consistency it has today because of the double buff. Remove/nerf that and you need to add consistency back.

The concept of Charm is random yet helpful bonuses. They aren't supposed to be something you rely on. The problem (and dominance in usage) with Smeeta is the reliance on double drops, their self stacking, and the massive average benefit the companion brings to your farming experience (reducing hours played throughout progression) across the entire game. Sure, Retrieve on Chesa technically falls into this same category, but the difference is indisputable. 

The other problem with Smeeta is that it creates a divide in expected reward outcome. Two players can do a mission together and player 1 gets a much higher amount of loot than player 2. In the most extreme cases (Profit-Taker being the best example here), you can have player 1 earn multiple times the reward of player 2, essentially multiplying the amount of missions player 1 has completed over player 2 for the same mission. In the case of Profit-Taker, Smeeta is the sole reason that the mission is undeniably better than The Index. As soon as The Index approaches the efficiency of Profit-Taker for Credits, you just go "yea, well Smeeta doubles, quadruples, or even octuples my rewards sometimes". This variance creates a massive headache for resource balancing as well as the psych behind farming something. For years, there are many players that get bummed out when they don't get a proc, or get frustrated when they go multiple rotations or even hours without one while someone else is getting multiple. It's a bad mechanic to have in the game whatsoever. The variance of drops should come down to team composition with abilities, boosters, and general enemy RNG. There shouldn't be this X factor that you feel compelled to always have equipped just to save some mission time. 

Giving every companion Charm is equivalent to just removing it from Smeeta. In that sense, it would be better to retain the identity of the Kavat and fix the 8 year old problem that should have never made it out of Update: Specters of the Rail. Smeeta can be absolutely beneficial without double drops, and the double Affinity, static Critical Chance, instant reload, free Overshields, and rare resource chance would still be beneficial to many players without making it feel like something you need to equip in literally any gamemode that allows you to take it. People who say "I don't need drops so I will swap my companion for something that isn't Smeeta" are still leaving extra drops on the table. The players that opt-out of using Smeeta would already see no difference in their gameplay for the missions they wouldn't take Smeeta for anyways. 

7 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Don't confuses "general" and reliable. Diriga for example may not be for every frame, as not every frame needs a CO proccer. But Diriga is still reliable at it's job.

I'm not confusing the terms. Smeeta is the general use companion. It has been since 2016. I cannot give you some exact number of resources, Credits, or Affinity Smeeta has given my account, but it is easily measurable in hundreds of hours of gameplay. That is something no companion has ever offered, not even Carrier. Carrier's popularity was the restriction of a QoL utility, which is the polar opposite of what Charm functions as. Smeeta's identity is the farming benefit of Charm, nothing else, and that defeats the intention of what Charm should be offering to the player.

If every companion had Charm, you'd be applying power creep to companions, solidifying a point for DE to balance economies around Charm, robbing Smeeta of its identity, all while accomplishing precisely 0 with the companion system as a whole because players would just move to option #2 and slap Charm on that instead. "Increasing choice" is not an excuse to do this. It's the same as the really bad take of "make every gun AoE". We already have homogenized loadouts as it is; no need to accelerate that.

Edited January 18 by Voltage

[KitMeHarder]

On 2024-01-17 at 6:50 PM, Voltage said:

These are not comparable in any way.

You're the one that basically compared them.

"Strong general use buffs are why situations like Carrier or Smeeta happen."

It's obvious they preform different roles, but it's not "massive powercreep" if we already have it. Just because something like Taxon can regen shields and proc Charm is not some massive step up from just using Smeeta. You act like the mod hasn't already been in the game for 7.5 years.

On 2024-01-17 at 6:50 PM, Voltage said:

The concept of Charm is random yet helpful bonuses. They aren't supposed to be something you rely on.

I can't believe your trying to argue that somewhat reducing the almost 10 minutes between specific buffs is somehow going to make it even reliable in the slightest. Especially after you proposed removing and nerfing the best buff with no compensation.

On 2024-01-17 at 6:50 PM, Voltage said:

The problem (and dominance in usage) with Smeeta is the reliance on double drops, their self stacking, and the massive average benefit the companion brings to your farming experience (reducing hours played throughout progression) across the entire game.

You could say that about literally anything in the game. You can be extremely direct and mention Nekros, Khora, Speedva, etc.... But even for general investment, no truly new player will kill enemies anywhere near as fast as vets do until they have hundreds or thousands of hours in the game. Etc...

On 2024-01-17 at 6:50 PM, Voltage said:

Two players can do a mission together and player 1 gets a much higher amount of loot than player 2. In the most extreme cases (Profit-Taker being the best example here)

And one brought Chroma and the other didn't, now they get half the amount of credits for the same amount of time. Welcome to Warfarm. This game is chock-full of indirect and direct inadequacies. The entire shtick of WF is literally "bringing the right tool for the right job".

You're barking up the wrong tree if you think that point holds any sway in this topic.

On 2024-01-17 at 6:50 PM, Voltage said:

Fetch is akin to Enemy Radar whereas Charm is akin to Desecrate.

On 2024-01-17 at 6:50 PM, Voltage said:

I cannot give you some exact number of resources, Credits, or Affinity Smeeta has given my account, but it is easily measurable in hundreds of hours of gameplay.

Yeah, and what has not needing to get closer than 10.5-13.5m to loot to pick it up done for your resource/credit income? Both literally and time-saved wise? You act like there's some massive difference when you call Fetch "utility only", when it 100% makes you get way more loot and/or get it way more quickly.

On 2024-01-17 at 6:50 PM, Voltage said:

For years, there are many players that get bummed out when they don't get a proc, or get frustrated when they go multiple rotations or even hours without one while someone else is getting multiple. It's a bad mechanic to have in the game whatsoever.

Yet you praise how the rest of Charm is unreliable and inconsistent and that it should stay that way. All the while badgering me for making Charm more consistent and with a more fair uptime. This game is rife with RNG. Why am I supposed to heed your word that my streamlined Charm is any worse than any other droptable someone gets unlucky with?

RNG is not a fun mechanic in most games, but it adds a undeniable element of elation to the farming process. But I think it's done well in 90-95% of WF, as well as with my new Charm.

On 2024-01-17 at 6:50 PM, Voltage said:

The variance of drops should come down to team composition with abilities, boosters, and general enemy RNG. There shouldn't be this X factor that you feel compelled to always have equipped just to save some mission time.

How you feel certain "abilities" don't fall under the "feeling compelled to always equip" statement is beyond me. I.E. Nekros is largely boring to me and probably a lot of other players. But guess what? I still use him all the time to mitigate the farm.

And compelled frame use is 10,000% worse than the near throwaway slot that is companions.

On 2024-01-17 at 6:50 PM, Voltage said:

In that sense, it would be better to retain the identity of the Kavat

Which my change still does if you actually read the OP.

On 2024-01-17 at 6:50 PM, Voltage said:

solidifying a point for DE to balance economies around Charm

I can almost guarantee you that even if DE removes Charm, they are going to continue making updates anti-Nekros, Khora, Speedva, Chroma, etc.... Because believe it or not, Charm may have had the highest chance to be disruptive, but there are other ways to massively mitigate the farm. And now that we have the two most important dev positions filled with people that actually play and understand the meta, our "freebies" are gonna be few and far between.

Edited January 19 by KitMeHarder

[Xzorn]

Most likely I think they will remove the buff's ability to stack. That's not normal ability behavior.

Without the double drops I personally would never use Smeeta or any other companion that isn't a Sentinel.
I have no interest in wild AI companions that just run up and take rockets to the face and gets themselves killed.

They should finally give up on Vacuum and just make it innate. It's in Durviri. It's in the Circuit. Definitely not the hill I'd take a stand on these days.