Feedback Gathering Eclipse Feedback Megathread

[(XBOX)AO Heart6770]

Base it on energy %, below 50% is damage increase, above 50% is dr increase. It ramps until you top off energy or spend it all

I feel it matches mirage’s kit well encouraging use of prism, while also preventing a scenario where you can “get it on command” with no drawbacks.

[AGx13]

A bit of a different suggestion from what i have seen here, how about making the light/dark bonuses in mirages kit to doing maneuvers. Her passive is is faster maneuvers and longer slides, so making light/dark modes tied to that would synergize with an existing part of Mirage. Perhaps doing certain maneuvers sets her to the light mode for a short time, with multiple maneuvers within that timespan strengthening the ability to full strength, thematically the spotlights beeing on her. Not doing a maneuver keeps her in dark mode, spotlights off of her making her hard to track and hurt.

A solution like this would lead to unique gameplay that is thematically in line with the idea of Mirage while giving more control of the abillity to the player. It needing multiple maneuvers to get to full strength would remove the need to nerf the helminth version and also give it synergy with arcane double back, giving more value to a seemingly underused arcane.

Implementing that would of course be more difficult than a toggle, but the idea already exists in the game with arcane double back, some code for that arcane might even be possible to reuse for Mirage.

[DeathBySNUSNUU]

2 minutes ago, (XBOX)AO Heart6770 said:

Base it on energy %, below 50% is damage increase, above 50% is dr increase. It ramps until you top off energy or spend it all

I feel it matches mirage’s kit well encouraging use of prism, while also preventing a scenario where you can “get it on command” with no drawbacks.

I like this one! I feel toggles take away from opportunities to add unique gameplay to certain frames.

[(XBOX)AO Heart6770]

Just now, DeathBySNUSNUU said:

I like this one! I feel toggles take away from opportunities to add unique gameplay to certain frames.

Also i think they should go ahead and revamp her 2 have a chance to jam weapons or enlarge head hitboxes instead of bombs

I think it deserves to be a one handed cast aswell

[Rottenmike2222]

toggle would be nice, i think for the helminth nerf it should be a ramping up effect so you start at 50 or 0% of chosen effect and it ramps up to max effectiveness, im not sure if it would be possible but this ramp up should also be effected by power duration and strength/efficiency, increased duration increases how long it would take to get at max while strength/efficiency determines how fast it could ramp up to max.

[Briginds.BH]

Tap/Hold toggle. It would bring a huge relief if we could be more mobile freely. 

[RaptormkII]

Count me as another vote for making Eclipse a Tap/Hold ability that scales with strength and duration. 

I understand that it would have to be nerfed similarly to Nourish, Roar, or Xata's Whisper in the Helminth system. So I also suggest setting the base damage reduction at 30-32% with a cap at 90-95% at 300% strength. Likewise, the base damage buff could be something like 75% and uncapped. 

That could make Eclipse an interesting and dependable option for frames that need help with survivability, as well as another option for weapons platforms. However, builds would need to be carefully thought out to get the most out of them.

Thanks for the opportunity to give feedback and suggestions!

 

[Hexerin]

3 minutes ago, RaptormkII said:

Count me as another vote for making Eclipse a Tap/Hold ability that scales with strength and duration. 

I understand that it would have to be nerfed similarly to Nourish, Roar, or Xata's Whisper in the Helminth system. So I also suggest setting the base damage reduction at 30-32% with a cap at 90-95% at 300% strength. Likewise, the base damage buff could be something like 75% and uncapped. 

That could make Eclipse an interesting and dependable option for frames that need help with survivability, as well as another option for weapons platforms. However, builds would need to be carefully thought out to get the most out of them.

Thanks for the opportunity to give feedback and suggestions!

Already responded to another person parroting the man, so I'll just quote myself:

4 hours ago, Hexerin said:

Setting the base value to 30% would be far, far too low. That would require an insane 317% ability strength to reach the 95% cap, or 300% ability strength just to get the standard 90% cap that every other frame gets for 200% ability strength or less. Yet another Brozime L, no surprise there.

Also, considering @[DE]Pablo has already voiced concerns about the 95% cap being too strong, it's unlikely they'd set the cap at 95% anyways (even on Mirage herself).

[killruf]

What if mirage makes a light area (max 2 areas) where she buffs herself with light while outside she gains the dark one. It's also perfect with the augment for buffing the allies. You can make it toggleable where only her can hold and cast the light area on herself becoming a movable light beacon. The light beacon's duration is the same as the ability

For the other abilities ,the 4th can also be used as light moving beacon or empowers the damage dealt by the prism and the 1st can increase the light beacon range with the reflecting thing of the mirage holograms

[MeiTheDevil]

For me the best way of fixing it is:
Make the 2 buffs charge up (from 0% to 100%) in light or dark (light buff charges in light, dark buff charges in dark). When not in light (or dark) for a set time, the light buff (or dark buff) will disappear. But to make it so you cannot just hop back to back from light to dark and have both buffs active all the time, you can toggle which buff you want to use at this moment.
So, if you want to have your light buff active, you have to just stay in the light for some time, but if you need to go do an objective that is in the dark, you do not loose your light buff instantly (you have some time dictated by a timer). But if you happen to loose your light buff because of being in the dark too much, you can change the toggle and use your fully charged dark buff now!
The charge rate could be light level dependant too, but it could be somewhat inconsistent. (I leave this one for you to figure out :D)
Also to clarify, if you choose to use the light buff for example, it does not block the charging of the dark buff.

[SanyPrime1996]

Toggle!

[Darukhabar]

I see a lot of people saying it should be tap to toggle,hold to cast, which isn't a bad idea. BUT the main stat that should be nerfed is probably ability efficiency.Smaller base strength could give big changes in damage due to the nature of the ability,and changes in duration would need constant spamming which wouldn't make the ability weaker, just annoying to use. To nerf it id make the ability more expensive to cast, at least 50 energy per cast. Since speedrunners also use the ability it wouldn't necessitate a rework of their builds, and for the regular Joe it would mean that his 45% efficiency build is gonna need him to collect more energy on the ground or lose some parts of his build to make it more efficient (because, let's be real, we're all guilty of having at least one "weapons platform" frame in this meta).

[LioMurasaki]

It would be nice for us to have something a little more "Balanced" with the light? You could make it so the buff is static BUT it still depends on ligh intensity at cast, so when you're standing in light get the damage but it stays like that until the duration runs out or you recast it in the new light level if you want to change the buff, also, give a light level HUD indicator like... A circle that spins from Sun to Lua depending on the actual light level, we're used to bars like Saryn's spore counter, Hydroid's Plunder counter, Nezha's Halo Counter, Sevagoth's, Ember's or Gauss's charge bars, we can handle a spining minecraft clock to know what we're doing with Mirage's Eclipse

[forkyeah]

Remove damage reduction

While crouching/wall latching for at least one second - warframe becomes invisible which is cancelled by standing, jumping or attacking 

While aiming down sights or blocking for at least one second - warframe gains the normal damage boost which is cancelled by no longer aiming down sights or performing any melee combo that is not part of the blocking based combo 

internal power synergy: The first attack using the damage boost from stealth will blind enemies in a brilliant display of light in a PBAoE around the warframe

nerf the helmith duration hard by 50-60%

[AngelSavior08]

Just make eclipse a tap or hold ability.

[Kickin97]

What about dividing space around the user into radial sectors (either 2 or 4) of alternating polarity (light / dark), giving a blend of the two buffs based on which sectors the user is damaging enemies in? That is, damaging enemies only in the light sector(s) would quickly increase the damage bonus and reduce the defensive one, while a 60/40 split would only shift the balance slowly. The sectors could also slowly rotate to make it more dynamic, or stay stationary to be in line with HoM.

I feel like this would be more flavourful than a simple toggle, while also allowing players to keep up the buff they want with relatively little effort as well as fitting in with Mirage's disco light/dark theme.

Edited January 27 by Kickin97

[Skoomaseller]

34 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Already responded to another person parroting the man, so I'll just quote myself:

Also, considering @[DE]Pablo has already voiced concerns about the 95% cap being too strong, it's unlikely they'd set the cap at 95% anyways (even on Mirage herself).

Agreed, base 30% is too low. As far as I know though, the DR is capped at 75% for Helminth.

[Traxex1379]

Make it a tap/hold (toggle) and nerf it on helminth

Make it a tap/hold (toggle) and nerf it on helminth

[EREBUS-LORN]

Making the ability Tap/Hold would be the easiest and most efficient way to fix it, and having the full extent of the buffs right away, without having to rely on light levels would help out with consistency.

About the nerf part then. On Mirage - no issues, works as intended. This one frame having the full benefit won't change the game drastically.

On other frames for Helminth - the DR I think being capped at 75% would not be a problem, it's not as high as a Mesa or Nezha DR, but would still give some benefits to other warframes who would need it, like Vauban, Banshee, Equinox, so those frames who don't really have a way to deal with it other then shield-gating and slaping on Adaptation, maybe. And it would make frames like Oberon, Dagath, Hydroid tank better, but not in a busted way.

                                                    - the Damage Buff part on the other hand has to be nerfed, that is clear, the issue lies in the values. In my opinion setting the base value for it also at 75% would mitigate the overuse since then it would be a healthier competition between other Damage buffing abilities and more in line with them. one other thing that could be done to make it more of a trade off if you want to use it. One more thing would maybe be viable if we maybe keep the number as is for the Buff but cap it like the DR. A 375% damage increase at 250% strength cap would still give a great benefit without going overboard with it, or even at 200% strength for a 300% Buff is nothing to scoff at.

Of course me as a player have an incentive to defend and talk in my best interest, so the values might need to be adjusted a bit downward maybe from a developers point of view if we want to keep a balance in the game, which is understandable. On the other hand no matter what a developer does, there will be people who will go for max amount of damage no matter what and those who will go with QoL (I'm more in the second camp), but with the game centered so much around doing as much damage as possible the first camp of players are more, that is also understandable.

Edited January 27 by EREBUS-LORN

[_Anise_]

The only reason I don't currently subsume eclipse is I hate the standing in dark light thing and the unreliability jank of it all, its also the same reason I don't actually touch mirage!  if I want damage reduction it needs to be reliable and work all of the time, I don't want to have to look around the environment to check and see if I am going to die or not!

touch / hold seems to be the way to go

tldr don't cap the helminth max damage reduction lower than the base version (starting it lower is fine) touch / hold!

Thanks

 

Edited January 28 by _Anise_

[PseudoSystem]

Toggle please

[_Anise_]

58 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Setting the base value to 30% would be far, far too low. That would require an insane 317% ability strength to reach the 95% cap, or 300% ability strength just to get the standard 90% cap

that's the point in having such a low cap so it requires a LOT of investment to get that high and isn't as universally good for every warfame ?

[Rennegis]

19 hours ago, [DE]Juice said:

make it a Tap/Hold toggle

 

[Tambhoes]

make it a Tap/Hold toggle

[Triezieme]

I echo the sentiment that Mirage's version should be tap/hold. It's reliable, in theory encourages you to think about its use, and is simpler to implement than anything tying in other abilities or mechanics that potentially interferes with their use instead.

before discussing the Helminth version I should state for full clarity I don't usually optimize for damage numbers or follow the metagame, and usually try for interesting things with my builds. I've never helminthed eclipse because I found it both unreliable and less interesting than other alternatives.

As for the Helminth version, my immediate thought when I heard this was to tie it to emissive colour on a frame, as with Equinox and Chroma's abilities, but thinking about this that wouldn't necessarily stop people who wanted the buff, and would also leave me still not using it for the same reasons I currently don't. Nerfing it would obviously be a delicate balance since it could fill a useful niche if reliable, but that is probably the simplest appropriate response.