Warframe needs harder content

[Tossenberg]

Netracells were a great addition in terms of making the game a tad bit more hardcore, but when you have reached the endgame of the endgame as I believe some of us have, netracells aren't exactly a challenge. Warframe players have already reached so far beyond what DE throws out here, it's about speedrunning eidelons in mere minutes, solo running netracells and level cap has for some of us just turned into who can stay awake the longest. I have heard about the new gamemode coming out with Dante Unbound, but I honestly fear its going to be another limited time entry like netracells. I thought duviri was an amazing addition, untill I realised it literally gets easier the longer it goes on, and the only real thing limiting your runs are the janky servers and level cap enemies just directly one shotting a defence objective.

Why not make a boss so huge it would take community effort, multiple days or alike to defeat?

Make a gamemode like duviri where instead of buffing you, you had to choose between handicaps every round?

What motivates me to keep going in warframe is reaching new heights in damage and true murder potential, and I believe there's a lot of us outhere, who would love if the cieling basically was set so high we could nearly never possibly reach it. I get that DE is slowly moving the goal post bit by bit for what the player can achieve, but right now they are moving it to a point where we have already been. 

[TARINunit9]

On 2024-03-05 at 5:52 PM, Tossenberg said:

Why not make a boss so huge it would take community effort, multiple days or alike to defeat?

This is what Fomorians and Razorback Fleets used to be. Each mission completion dealt a tiny bit of damage to the Fomorian or to the Fleet

Wanna know why they stopped? Fomorian health was well-balanced, but the first Razorback Fleet died in less than 12 hours. So fast, most players couldn't participate. DE quintupled the next fleet's HP, and that one still died in less than two days.

So now both Razorbacks and Fomorians are set to auto-decay. Yeah, we used to have your idea in the game and we were STILL too good and we had to take it back out

(There was also the original version of the Acolytes, but I'm not sure that counts. They had a total HP bar in the trillions, but they would flee after a normal boss HP bar of only 500,000 damage)

[Aevire]

Balancing the game itself would require a very large amount of work from [DE] to completely overhaul how we get our damage, how enemies' health and armor and shields scale, basically every system in the game. The larger questions to ask are, "how and when can we justify this work?" and "where would we start?"

[DE] doesn't really tend to spend a lot of time revisiting content, in general. We get one update, and then one echoes update, and then except for the rare grind reduction or systems pass, we don't tend to get a lot of iterations on systems that aren't great or aren't perfect. Case in point with Fomorians and Razorbacks - it died too quick, they tried again, it still died too quick, so now it's auto-decayed. Fail once, shame on them, fail twice, guess it can't work.

But they do have limited-time events that don't just go away - Ghouls and Thermia. Part of this is because there's no reason to grind them after the first time, so they don't have a ton of investment. The problem with Razorback and Fomorian is that their health decay was just "lose X health per mission completed", so it could literally only handle a certain number of mission completions. If players did too many missions too quick, it'd be over. But that's not a problem with the idea of having a collaborative gigaboss. It's a problem with how that boss's bar worked. If the damage done to Razorback and Fomorian had a cap per hour, or diminishing returns within an hour - so the first completion might do 100 damage, the second 99, the third 98, and so on, either decaying exponentially or eventually doing nothing - would have ensured they survive for at least as long as however [DE] wanted (if it's a hard cap or asymptotic cap, they just multiply that cap by the number of hours they want it to live at minimum). It is hard to be confident in the long term health of any content [DE] makes when they rarely demonstrate that they understand the precise reasons why anything they put in this game didn't pan out how they wanted them to.

We know they canned modular Archwings because archwings are either content that sucks or an open world movement tool. But they never addressed the underlying problem they found there. They did not fix Archwing to not suck. They have not integrated it with the rest of the game's systems. We can assume they canned Oplink because Scarlet Spear was not fun. But Scarlet Spear wasn't unfun because it's not fun to link two squads. The Oplink felt bad because the only time the system changed how you played the game was when it prevented you from progressing because the other team was slower than yours, or when you got flak from the other team because you'd prevented them from progressing by being slower than them. There was only negative feedback between the two squads. You did not get any benefit from being linked to the other squad. But Oplink doesn't only work with negative feedback, it works with all feedback. If they wanted, they could have every Murmur and Zariman bounty be oplinked, and then the only time you remember the other squad is there is when they collect a Lohk Surge which also affects you, or collect a medallion which you also receive, or any other positive rewarding feedback that allows the other squad to actively make your life easier. It is a games design problem, one of implementation, not a problem with the system.

The point here is that [DE] doesn't really tend to spend a lot of time on the things that didn't pan out well, and so it never fixes those problems with the systems it implemented, it just makes new systems. Given that weapon modding and warframe abilities, survivability and damage, etc., is THE huge system in warframe, it would require a shift in ethos by the team to fix these structural issues that are obviously with the implementation of damage in the game, the implementation of world bosses and server bosses in the game, etc. I still would much prefer failures on that front - change to the existing systems to bring them towards a better game - than the content islands and different games that they've been stapling to Warframe for the past few years - Duviri (not the Circuit, that one's good), Veilbreaker, and now Warframe 1999, even if they are successes, because if they are successes they will be successes that do not translate to the rest of the game. I would like the entire game to be better, and not just for them to finally create a minigame that isn't gruesome.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

to put it simply this ain't that kind of game.

power fantasy is the order of the day, which goes against hard bosses of any kind. there's a *little* hope if we can get more secret bosses like Fragmented one (60 eyes version), but even then, those bosses won't be difficult, more like a gear check if anything.

 

[Ghastly-Ghoul]

The game stops being a challenge as soon as the player unlocks the Vazarin focus school. The game isn’t failing in a way that would warrant a complete overhaul, which is needed to have meaningful content. Players have addressed this for years and DE has tried.

As a result, we now have Souframe.