Are you suppose to do light attack with Exodia Contagion?

[cephalon_slay]

Hi! I recently built a zaw 

 

dokrahm + Peye + Vargeet 2 Jai 

 

put  5 forma on it  and finished formaing my wisp prime. I hit just over 300% power strength. I keep seeing people say they hit millions of damage just doing the regular jump jump air melee to launch the projectile but I’m a little confused. I only hit like at most 500k dmg and that’s after stripping enemy armor with eclipse on. 
 

i noticed the builds all recommend blood rush so I used blood rush but I’m not seeing how the combo counter is suppose to build up? My projectile launch in air doesn’t add to the combo counter at all. 
 

 

[johnno23]

often if you have to much DPS then the enemies are dead before you build up the counter which is why very often some players concentrate on status or Crits whilst leaving the base damage at what might appear quite low. a good example of building for combo is the riven challenge where for example you need to reach combo x 6 and keep it active for 30 seconds.

if you run vor assassinte as an example with such a low dps build the enemies often need several hits to die but by the time you have built up the combo and taken down vor any enemy you hit on the run to extraction will simply die with one hit from your melee. Not the perfect example but you could enter the simulrum and practice with different builds to see what works best with your Zaw builds

try just taking down enemies whilst on the ground to build up combo before launching any special jump attacks and see the difference. if the enemies o  the ground attacks die to fast to build up combo lower your DPS a little and try again etc.

Edited March 21 by johnno23

[Zakkhar]

1 hour ago, cephalon_slay said:

I keep seeing people say they hit millions of damage just doing the regular jump jump air melee to launch the projectile but I’m a little confused.

Are you sure they do regular jump jump melee, not a jump jump heavy slide?

What may change your damage a lot is: element you put on the weapon, arcanes, archon shards, whether you hit the target directly (also headshot), distance the projectile is moving before it hits the target,

And it depends on the target itself, some have damage attenuation even when armor stripped.

1 hour ago, cephalon_slay said:

i noticed the builds all recommend blood rush so I used blood rush but I’m not seeing how the combo counter is suppose to build up? My projectile launch in air doesn’t add to the combo counter at all. 

What all builds? You do not run BR on Contagion. You do not build combo on it. There is no need. You need to learn how to do heavy aerial slide, though. On the baby below it is an overkill most of the time anyway.

 

Edited March 21 by Zakkhar

[VibingCat]

Wisp, in particular, lacks inherent synergy with Exodia Contagion. Instead, Eclipse and Vigorous Swap are strongly recommended, since the former is applied twice and the latter grants a final damage multiplier. Blood Rush is not advisable due to the inconvenience of maintaining combo, in my opinion. Other abilities capable of dealing immense damage, even reaching into the millions or billions, include Octavia's Amp and Banshee's Sonar. Additionally, consider adding Melee Exposure. Finally, Condition Overload provides a multiplicative damage bonus to direct hits, ensuring even the toughest enemies pose little challenge.

[VibingCat]

27 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Are you sure they do regular jump jump melee, not a jump jump heavy slide?

The heavy attack was recently nerfed, unfortunately. The only way it deals slightly more damage is thanks to rivens and Sacrificial Steel that give it a higher critical chance, however it isn't convenient anymore.

2 hours ago, cephalon_slay said:

Dokrahm + Peye + Vargeet II Jai 

I would suggest Seekalla instead of Peye.

[Zakkhar]

41 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

The heavy attack was recently nerfed, unfortunately.

It was announced it was nerfed, yes. But it had zero effect on the weapon. I have hit my all time max dmg AFTER the supposed nerf.

41 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

however it isn't convenient anymore.

Wdym this isnt convenient? This is the difference between doing orange crit and red!! crit. In my case it is x21,8 multiplier. Doinng 21,8 times more damage is not convenient for you? Okay...

Edited March 21 by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

39 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

I would suggest Seekalla instead of Peye.

I would suggest not. This is a miniscule difference and not worth the 5 forma/potato/time.

[VibingCat]

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

2 hours ago, VibingCat said:

The heavy attack was recently nerfed, unfortunately.

It was announced it was nerfed, yes. But it had zero effect on the weapon. I have hit my all time max dmg AFTER the supposed nerf.

All zaws seem to be affected by the nerf except for Dehtat and Plague Kripath, based on my observations in the Simulacrum. It's possible that the difference could be due to factors other than strikes. Quite intriguing, isn't it?

1 hour ago, Zakkhar said:

Wdym this isnt convenient? This is the difference between doing orange crit and red!! crit. In my case it is x21,8 multiplier. Doinng 21,8 times more damage is not convenient for you? Okay..

The damage variance between orange and red critical tiers consistently remains below 50%. It's crucial to consider that heavy attacks tend to be clumsier and slower, resulting in lower overall DPS for zaws affected by the nerf.

Edited March 21 by VibingCat

[Zakkhar]

23 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

It's crucial to consider that heavy attacks tend to be clumsier and slower, resulting in lower overall DPS for zaws affected by the nerf.

You need to double jump/bullet jump every time anyway which makes for most of the time of the actual attack. If you run aspeed mods/arcanes the speed is pretty similar.

You used to be able to attack continously while still in the air, now only once regardless if its light or heavy and regardless whether you got Chroma Passive or not.

23 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

Some zaws like Dokrahm and Cyath are nerfed, while others like Dehtat remain unaffected, as I've observed in the Simulacrum. Quite strange, isn't it?

I cant speak about any of those. All mine are unaffected (Plague Kripath, Plague Keewar and Kroonsh). All of them are built with two handed grip.

Edited March 21 by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

25 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

The damage variance between orange and red critical tiers consistently remains below 50%.

How do you calculate that? Additional crit tier is additional crit multiplier added. Maybe if you do not mod your crit damage enough (I got 3 mods + 4 archon shards affecting it). Used to have 5 shards for 12,9 multi, but it was overkill already.

Edited March 21 by Zakkhar

[VibingCat]

1 minute ago, Zakkhar said:

All mine are unaffected (Plague Kripath, Plague Keewar and Kroonsh).

Could you please test each of them in the Simulacrum? My observations yielded different results. Would you mind sharing which components you used to craft them?

[VibingCat]

1 minute ago, Zakkhar said:

How do you calculate that? Additional crit tier is additional crit multiplier added. Maybe if you do not mod your crit damage enough (I got 3 mods + 4 archon shards affecting it). Used to have 5 shards for 12,9 multi, but it was overkill already.

Compare the damage of your quick-melee projectiles with that of heavy slide attacks. If the damage remains the same except for critical tiers, then the nerf applies.

The critical multiplier can be calculated as 1 + (critical tier * (critical damage - 1)). Orange is considered as 2 and red as 3, thus red/orange < 1.5. This relationship holds regardless of the magnitude of damage dealt.

[Zakkhar]

16 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

If the damage remains the same except for critical tiers

How can damage be the same if the critical tier increases?

16 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

The critical multiplier can be calculated as 1 + (critical tier * (critical damage - 1)). Orange is considered as 2 and red as 3, thus red/orange < 1.5. This relationship holds regardless of the magnitude of damage dealt.

I said red !! crit (as 192,5% cc becomes 380ish for the purpose of heavy attack). The funny thing is is "double dips" somehow with damage buffs so it is not 1,5 at all.

24 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

Could you please test each of them in the Simulacrum? My observations yielded different results. Would you mind sharing which components you used to craft them?

Can't right now, will do that in 2 hours. PS: Simulacrum is bugged and doesnt show proper damage from Contagion (or maybe it is Contagion that is bugged and gets more damage outside Simul, who knows).

Edited March 21 by Zakkhar

[VibingCat]

17 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

How can damage be the same if the critical tier increases?

Factor out your critical multiplier, or conduct your test without mods.

23 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

I said red !! crit (as 192,5% cc becomes 380ish for the purpose of heavy attack). The funny thing is is "double dips" somehow with damage buffs so it is not 1,5 at all.

My apologies, I didn't realise you were referring to super red crits. In that case, the relationship falls below 2, but consider that each heavy attack takes longer than two quick melees, and most importantly, prioritising speed over damage is essential when your hits consistently result in one-shot kills.

27 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

PS: Simulacrum is bugged and doesnt show proper damage from Contagion (or maybe it is Contagion that is bugged and gets more damage outside Simul, who knows).

I disagree unless you can provide evidence. I conducted tests on the day of the nerf during a mission and confirmed that it clearly affected my Dokrahm.

[cephalon_slay]

8 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Are you sure they do regular jump jump melee, not a jump jump heavy slide?

What may change your damage a lot is: element you put on the weapon, arcanes, archon shards, whether you hit the target directly (also headshot), distance the projectile is moving before it hits the target,

And it depends on the target itself, some have damage attenuation even when armor stripped.

What all builds? You do not run BR on Contagion. You do not build combo on it. There is no need. You need to learn how to do heavy aerial slide, though. On the baby below it is an overkill most of the time anyway.

 

Ohhh perhaps I’m not doing the heavy bc I only orange crit 

I have a dokrahm riven, dehtat, and Rabvee riven too

 

would it be better to use a lower despo part with riven vs a higher despo with riven ? 

[cephalon_slay]

8 hours ago, VibingCat said:

Wisp, in particular, lacks inherent synergy with Exodia Contagion. Instead, Eclipse and Vigorous Swap are strongly recommended, since the former is applied twice and the latter grants a final damage multiplier. Blood Rush is not advisable due to the inconvenience of maintaining combo, in my opinion. Other abilities capable of dealing immense damage, even reaching into the millions or billions, include Octavia's Amp and Banshee's Sonar. Additionally, consider adding Melee Exposure. Finally, Condition Overload provides a multiplicative damage bonus to direct hits, ensuring even the toughest enemies pose little challenge.

She’s in the air anyways bc of her passive

plus breach surge and her stun keeps enemies in place no? 

[cephalon_slay]

8 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Are you sure they do regular jump jump melee, not a jump jump heavy slide?

What may change your damage a lot is: element you put on the weapon, arcanes, archon shards, whether you hit the target directly (also headshot), distance the projectile is moving before it hits the target,

And it depends on the target itself, some have damage attenuation even when armor stripped.

What all builds? You do not run BR on Contagion. You do not build combo on it. There is no need. You need to learn how to do heavy aerial slide, though. On the baby below it is an overkill most of the time anyway.

 

Would you mind sharing your parts for this ?

[VibingCat]

1 hour ago, cephalon_slay said:

She’s in the air anyways bc of her passive

plus breach surge and her stun keeps enemies in place no? 

Her passive doesn't grant the stealth multiplier, if that's what you mean.

I wouldn't say Exodia Contagion benefits much from Breach Surge. It's not bad, nonetheless.

[cephalon_slay]

16 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

Her passive doesn't grant the stealth multiplier, if that's what you mean.

I wouldn't say Exodia Contagion benefits much from Breach Surge. It's not bad, nonetheless.

I meant as in, since you wanna be in the air anyways, exodia contagion also needs you in the air so it makes sense to combine them. 
 

I also have glaive prime and I might just switch back to that lolololol it’s a lot easier to use on a controller 

[VibingCat]

39 minutes ago, cephalon_slay said:

I meant as in, since you wanna be in the air anyways, exodia contagion also needs you in the air so it makes sense to combine them. 
 

I also have glaive prime and I might just switch back to that lolololol it’s a lot easier to use on a controller 

If we're talking about synergy, Hildryn with Eclipse (or Mirage with Pillage) would fix the problem of armour that limits Wisp's potential. There's also Saryn with high range and two emerald shards. Any warframes can double jump, you know lol.

Edited March 21 by VibingCat

[Zakkhar]

7 hours ago, VibingCat said:

Factor out your critical multiplier, or conduct your test without mods.

Why would I do it without mods when I know the damage difference is caused by static cc bonus mods and crit tier?

7 hours ago, VibingCat said:

My apologies, I didn't realise you were referring to super red crits. In that case, the relationship falls below 2, but consider that each heavy attack takes longer than two quick melees, and most importantly, prioritising speed over damage is essential when your hits consistently result in one-shot kills.

My test subjects: SP Corrupted Heavy Gunner 195.

Kronsh with mods above in Simul (like I said it doesnt work great).

Light attack = orange crit - dmg numbers are between ~19-22k for direct hit light attack (and 4k dot) and 275-572k for heavy attack direct hit

With the a little bit of the buffs (1 of 3) is am normally using (not all) 400-600k light attack, 5M heavy attack (i do not see dot because it nukes them from the orbit).

Plague parts are hard to test because they tend to proc Viral.

But I would say Kripath (with mods) does about the same light attack without buffs, but about 275-350k heavy.

With buff 400-500k light, 3-3,5M heavy

My Parts: Plague Kripath - Plague Bokwin - Varget II Ruhang, Kroonsh - Seekala - Varget II Jai

Spoiler

it is hard to measure becuse heavy 1shots them and is therefore capped by their total EHP in Simul, it does not occur on live mission, hence I tend to be doing 99%-100% of my team damage by inflating the numbers (counting in 100 Milions and Bilions).

 

Edited March 21 by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

32 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

If we're talking about synergy, Hildryn with Eclipse (or Mirage with Pillage) would fix the problem of armour that limits Wisp's potential. There's also Saryn with high range and two emerald shards. Any warframes can double jump, you know lol.

For me biggest synergy is with Zephyr due to passive crit from Air as he does some red crits with Light attack already and heavy attack just 1shots everything in range (no other buffs). Same test subjects.

Like is said, hardest part is to know how to/and be able to execute heavy aerial slide with proper speed and accuracy. 

Edited March 21 by Zakkhar

[VibingCat]

24 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Why would I do it without mods when I know the damage difference is caused by static cc bonus mods and crit tier?

Because a heavy attack has another multiplier that depends on your stance mod; this is what the nerf aimed to remove for most zaws, not the additional critical chance from mods, which is a smaller multiplier. So, if your modded heavy attack is about ten times stronger than your quick one, it is certain the nerf does not apply.

Your data show that your heavy attacks are unaffected, unlike mine, alas. And, in fact, our zaws have different components. Now it becomes complicated to understand why some combinations have the heavy attack multiplier and others don't.

[VibingCat]

40 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

For me biggest synergy is with Zephyr due to passive crit from Air as he does some red crits with Light attack already and heavy attack just 1shots everything in range (no other buffs). Same test subjects.

Like is said, hardest part is to know how to/and be able to execute heavy aerial slide with proper speed and accuracy. 

By the way, won't that break your tornadoes such that they stop redirecting damage? I'm a big fan of Zephyr, but this issue leaves me with very few reliable options.

[Zakkhar]

I tested my other crit parts Zaws, have in mind none of them are not fully modded (no extermal buffs)

• Ooltha-Korb-Varget II Ruhang 20k light, 40k heavy (interesting)
• Balla-Shtung-Varget II Ruhang 900-1400 light, 900-1400 heavy
• Sephahn-Korb-Varget II Jai 2600-4600 light, 5500-6500 heavy
• Kroonsh-Shtung-Varget Ruhang II (my old Kronsh, before I knew how to build stuff, but I equipped the riven) 1300 light 11-15k heavy
• Cyath-Korb-Varget II Ruhang 1100-2000 LA, 3900-4000 HA
• Mewan-Shtung-Ekwana II Jai (my 1st ever Zaw) getting very inconsitent damage numbers for some reason 8800-10k & 20k-80k (I guess the difference is between hitting it with Corrosive and hitting it with Impact or Viral) LA - it has a %dmg riven. Ok I changed to Corrupted Bombard so my Corrosive doesnt interfere annd numbers are more consisten 3,2k-4k LA, 8k-53K HA (but the ranges are still off the charts).
• Dehtat-Korb-Varget II Ruhang 1800-1900 LA, similar ranges for HA

Adding the two previous ones (fully modded for Contagion play)

• Plague Kripath-Plague Bokwin-Varget II Ruhang 20k LA, 275k-350k HA
• Kroonsh - Seekala - Varget II Jai 20k LA, 275k-572k HA

I do not think it is about the parts, but about the fully fledged build. Unless it is complete coincidence that the weapons I have most invested in, do best. Guess I could try to simulate it by using the same build for Kronsh. Lemme see.

Kroonsh - Seekala - Varget II Jai - base mods Bleeding Willow 1000-1800 LA, 9,2k HA

Kroonsh - Seekala - Varget II Jai - base mods Twilring Spire 800 LA, 1,5k HA

You may be onto something. But I had this interaction before with HA in general. Slower weapons/stances did more HA (and Contagion) damage than faster weapons (slapping attack speed mods reduced the damage expodentially)

I can test other weapons with other stances.

Edited March 21 by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

12 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

By the way, won't that break your tornadoes such that they stop redirecting damage? I'm a big fan of Zephyr, but this issue leaves me with very few reliable options.

Did not notice anything like that. I have heard Nataruk is great for Zephyr specced for Tornados, I use my Zeph in a bit different conditions but it seems ok.