Dante Subsume is Mediocre

[Zaghyr]

After testing out the Subsumed version of Dark Verse...it is very mediocre. Yes we get a Slash spam spell, but it just feels boring since it serves no other purpose except for maybe breaking containers. It would technically be out of the norm for subsume abilities, but It would have been amazing to be able to use Page Flight as a Hold-Cast with this. Summoning 3 bird friends who deal damage and apply status vulnerability while using Zephyr (the birb frame) is an exciting thought.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

+1 on that. Super underwhelming.

Tested it on my armor-strip Mag, in hopes of bringing something new and cool instead of using the ol'reliable Breach Surge. But... It's super weak and lackluster. Those lvl 200 gunners with SP modifier, fully armor-stripped and primed with 10 viral stacks still take AGES to die(if at all) from one cast even if you have a lot of STR in your build and even if you keep on spamming that stuff, stacking more and more slash procs... It's still not as good as the "nuke" that is Breach Surge, for example - that one requires just one click and everyone's dead. Hell, a mechanical doggo kills them faster, if fully stripped and grouped up like that.

Edited March 28 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[Famecans]

wait new augment mods...

the first skill is an exalted, the third and last skills are dependent so the most logical thing is to have this skill with slash damage.
(the point is that we already have a similar helminth skill from Citrine)

[FelisImpurrator]

I mean, to be fair, maybe it would have been OP to have a way to just give people 30k+ overguard and full heals constantly, on any frame.

Dark Verse itself IS underwhelming on its own, I suppose. Hard to notice when Dante overall kills things so quickly.

On 2024-03-28 at 4:00 PM, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

+1 on that. Super underwhelming.

Tested it on my armor-strip Mag, in hopes of bringing something new and cool instead of using the ol'reliable Breach Surge. But... It's super weak and lackluster. Those lvl 200 gunners with SP modifier, fully armor-stripped and primed with 10 viral stacks still take AGES to die(if at all) from one cast even if you have a lot of STR in your build and even if you keep on spamming that stuff, stacking more and more slash procs... It's still not as good as the "nuke" that is Breach Surge, for example - that one requires just one click and everyone's dead. Hell, a mechanical doggo kills them faster, if fully stripped and grouped up like that.

To be fair, it DOES one-cast virtually all trash enemies with a viral primer, ignoring their armor. Breach Surge requires that you actually hit stuff with real killing power first. Why are you bringing this ability to kill some of the most inflated raw health pools in the game (CHG with 700 versus everything else, lmao) with an armor strip build, when its damage is... a low-ish amount of armor-ignoring DoT? You put it on the wrong warframe... Try slapping it on Mirage or Rhino and you'll see it clear rooms, no doubt. Especially new Mirage.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

53 minutes ago, FelisImpurrator said:

I mean, to be fair, maybe it would have been OP to have a way to just give people 30k+ overguard and full heals constantly, on any frame.

Dark Verse itself IS underwhelming on its own, I suppose. Hard to notice when Dante overall kills things so quickly.

To be fair, it DOES one-cast virtually all trash enemies with a viral primer, ignoring their armor. Breach Surge requires that you actually hit stuff with real killing power first. Why are you bringing this ability to kill some of the most inflated raw health pools in the game (CHG with 700 versus everything else, lmao) with an armor strip build, when its damage is... a low-ish amount of armor-ignoring DoT? You put it on the wrong warframe... Try slapping it on Mirage or Rhino and you'll see it clear rooms, no doubt. Especially new Mirage.

You see... Here's the plan: casting Crush to armor-strip, then followed by Magnetize and a singular Breach Surge will literally "oneshot" the enemies pulled into the Magnetize bubble. Because the bubble itself ticks damage over time, when even a singular point of damage is dumped into the bubble itself - be it by you, your companion or even by enemies themselves. And with multiple enemies pulled in - all being affected by Breach Surge - some are bound to trigger sparks(10% chance) even without them being killed(which is instead the 100% trigger of a spark instead). And the sparks don't have to fly anywhere, since enemies are all grouped up neatly. And due to them being armor-stripped and naked, they just die from the spark. Which leads to triggering another spark... Which then kills the other enemy... Which in turn triggers another spark. A chain-reaction happens, killing the whole group almost in an instant due to no travel time of the sparks - they spawn and instantly hit, killing the enemy, triggering the next. 

Usually, I don't even have to shoot into the bubble myself. Either the enemies themselves trigger it by trying to shoot at me from the inside(already literally 1 dmg is enough for the Magnetize bubble to start dealing DoT and thus possibly triggering Breach Surge sparks - amount of dmg dealt is irrelevant) OR my hound shooting that Akaten(with slash/heat applied as DoTs, as yet another case of possible damaging trigger for Breach Surge sparks) + Synergyzed Prospectus precept that shoots an Electro spark which also ricochets up to 7 times... + Manifold Bond applying Akaten's status effects to that electro spark precept (same slash/heat DoT's as the "damage instances" for triggering sparks, together with rad and viral, which are also present on Akaten lol). And not to mention "Momentous Bond" mod, which - after killing Eximus - might give the hound's attacks other DoT elements like toxic or electro (or other elements tho). Oh so many cases of damage instances that can and DO trigger the Breach Surge spark "cascade" right away, the moment enemies are stripped, pulled and breach-surged :D All of these things (hound stuff included) are technically "ability" or "weapon" damage, thus every single one of these instances have a 10% chance to trigger a spark on at least one enemy in a large group that's pulled in. And then it's just a chain-reaction. So yeah. It's VERY consistent lol.

 

I kinda hoped for similar result, but with Dante's ability instead of Breach Surge. Armor-strip with Crush, Magnetize them into one group, one-shot with the *direct* slash damage from the initial cast. Or at least also apply high enough slash proc on top to finish them off right after the direct damage too. Obviously neither happened. Not even if I also shoot a couple of viral Epitaph shots into the bubble(applying 10 virals on all of the enemies) before casting Dante's ability. Even then the damage is simply not there. Not even after multiple casts and applying many slash procs.

All while Breach surge just nukes the whole group in a near-instant chain reaction of sparks and without the need for a viral primer either. I dunno. Maybe I'm dumb, after over 4300h in the game, maybe I misunderstand some mechanics, which might be the case too. But it feels like it should work... at least on paper it sounds good. But it doesn't. OH WELL.

(Ain't saying you're wrong, I could be very much wrong myself, so... No hard feelings, mkay?)

Edited March 29 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[-ShadowRadiance-]

On 2024-03-28 at 6:44 AM, Zaghyr said:

After testing out the Subsumed version of Dark Verse...it is very mediocre. Yes we get a Slash spam spell, but it just feels boring since it serves no other purpose except for maybe breaking containers. It would technically be out of the norm for subsume abilities, but It would have been amazing to be able to use Page Flight as a Hold-Cast with this. Summoning 3 bird friends who deal damage and apply status vulnerability while using Zephyr (the birb frame) is an exciting thought.

Try it with Nezha's new augment. 

It straight up -murders- Every enemy hit, with the slash proc and impaled by spears. Applies the slash proccs. 

If you hit 5 enemies with both effects. Congratz. 5 slash procs.

20 enemies... 20 proccs... all transfered... see where this is going? <.<

My nezha straight up NUKES steel path 195 enemies with 1 cast of Divine spears and Dark verse.

You call it mediocre? *giggles* 

You havent found the use for it.

[Darkumineru]

On 2024-03-28 at 6:44 AM, Zaghyr said:

it is very mediocre. Yes we get a Slash spam spell, but

i agree and to add on to the fact we have a better slash spam spell water blades (with augment) scaling slash with massive AoE in hallways killing most enemys with ease with even negative str 
like if dark verse was 3x base damage it will have been cool with frames like nezha and the new augment or hydroid or some of the other frames that buff DoT be it rhino or others 
or we can just make it birds :D 2 birds insted of 3 and duration of 20s base they will have been cool options when compared to octavia or loki subsumes for agro and will have added a bit of damage amp and how fun will it have been to play khora without her 4 and using her 3 and birds has a full beast master usign 2 mark the enemy with 3 then with birds help killing the first enemy spreading the slash proc to everyone in the 9m AoE of the bond mod