PC PC Dante Unbound: Deep Archimedea: Hotfix 35.5.3

[Tesla_PRIMER]

I understand that when it comes to balancing Dante you guys are very thorough with decisions but I just feel like the nerf to paragrimms is a bit much..

I mean outright removing the status damage bonus is a bit much especially since that's how Dante was able to do so much more in the damage category and what made him so unique compared to others like Yareli Seas snares, Caliban's ability (I forgot), Rhino Roar, saryn toxic lash, etc. now he feels more like a strong support warframe with Crowd control properties 

it felt good not relying on Roar for good status damage but now it feels so much weaker to use

I love the word warden buff absolute W

[TheResinger]

The dante changes were an absolute meme and way to quick for you to take a sledgehammer to his knees. But Deep Archimeda's load-out system is so incredibly flawed. 99% of the weapons in this game are just outright mastery fodder that do not have the stats to be viable in SP, so why do you keep implementing this rng loadout system that tries to force you to use literal garbage? Also the fact that it can even remotely roll anything you do not have built is a hilariously bad design decision and absolutely needs to change if you are going to require us to actually equip them to get the points.

[HonorGuard2074]

and CC gets ever weaker now, just Ever weaker.....

Can we just make overguard effect ONLY damage abilities and do what it was originally for, rather than just sucker punching CC more often than Aiden Caldwell in Dying light 2?

[poop2much]

well the first new frame i really enjoyed (not saying good) and made me want to play them SINCE HARROW, and you ruin him in a week, great, now i remember why i take 8 months off a year from this game.. if its fun nerf fast as lightning.. broken or bugged things, you get to when you get to... so again stop bothering to make new frames,, most are just twists on old ones, and anything original you ruin quick! i just wish i didn't 150 bucks in plat left to my account to rot till jades patch.. that money would have been better spent elsewhere.. smh.. way to go DE, way to go

[robertobear]

Since these ideas haven't seem to have brought up yet, I'm going to advocate for way more additions to wordwarden. Personally one of my favorite things about Dante was Noctora, and The potiential of Wordwarden for indirectly buffing the potential of Canticles and maybe invocations through Prismatic Gem-style assist hits. I'll put my ideas down in order of how badly I want them added.

1:Allow Wordwarden to scale with Multishot, and preferably Fire rate. From my current testing it seems Wordwardens only ever fire one projectile per hit dealt with the weapon(again, much like Prismatic gem), but I couldn't see a real difference with fire rate. Not only would fixing these increase it's DPS, but also how quickly Noctera builds up alt-fire(which both your own and I believe even ally wordwardens do by the way)

1.5A:I actually kind of like how it currently works, so one way of making it scale is by having them fire an additional shot in burst based on your modded fire rate(with multishot giving additional projectiles in each shot)

1.5B:Alternatively, just rework the wordwarden to simply "target" recently hit enemies for a short duration, and continuously fire for said short duration. it would make it alot more intitutive atleast, plus it would allow more weapon types to use them at full effectiveness.

2:I was really hoping for canticles to work with wordwarden, but they barely do. Currently your own wordwarden only procs canticles if you have the Noctora equipped(I only found this out by switching into it as an enemy was dying, because otherwise you're already tagging them with your main Noctera anyways), and doesn't proc at all from ally wordwardens.

2.5A:remove the requirement for having the grimoire equipped in order to trigger canticles. this would allow other weapons to be used while still reliably triggering canticles

2.5B:Allow ally wordwardens to proc canticles. this would mean you wouldn't have to compete with ally hits nearly as much, and greatly increasing the reliably the canticles in the process.

I'm not really expecting both of these choices to be implimented, but i'd very much prefer that to be the case. You could even make a compromise where ally wordwardens only proc Canticles if you have noctora equiped, but your own Wordwarden will alwasy proc canticles regardless.

3:Allow word warden to trigger from hits by Dark Verse, preferably Tragedy, and maybe the paragrims. Personally I want Wordwardens to trigger from all abilities, but I'm sticking to my Prismatic Gem comparison for now. Citrine atleast has Shattered Blast that triggers the gem, but dante doesn't have any of abilities do so. Not only would it make it even easier to proc canticles, but..it just feels kinda weird that it doesn't? Tragedy falls into the same catagory, but I don't mind it as much with that. Adding Paragrims to the list is something i'm not expecting at all to happen(epecially sense it would be a form of passive damage), but I at least want to throw it out there for consideration.

4:Have allied wordwarden grant Invocation buffs to allies when you proc the ones on your own Noctora. This is another thing i'm not actually expecting ot happen, but being the 3rd warframe to grant allies an ability modifer buff, and the 1st to grant a non-strength based ability modifer would be amazing. You could alternatively just make them use alt-fire on their own, but that sounds like way to much work, and they probably wouldn't much enemies with it anyways.

If all of these were added, i'd happily see word warden dropped all the way back down to 0.3x damage modifer if not even lower;epecially when the fire rate and multishot fix alone would massively boost it's DPS. These were the types of interactions I was hoping for when seeing noctera and wordwarden, and i'm still hoping to see them in the future.

[_UnknownVariable_]

I quit for years when ember was destroyed,  came back when liches were introduced quit again when the bramma was annihilated. Came back for Dante. Got to enjoy him for just a few days  and poof obliterated he does nothing well now. The absolute pain of enjoying something in a PVE game investing in it and having it taking away from you is literal robbery. Not even a refund system for things they nerf here's your forma and rush plat back because we saw you were having fun and had to take it away. Nothing just a middle finger.

[JonesmanThe64th]

These changes feel reactionary and poorly planned out and reactionary. I was thinking of buying protea prime access when it came out as well as a tennocon digital ticket but if they get nerfed a week later (using the digital ticket to get primed mods I've long been missing) then I don't see the point in buying those things.. it would be wiser to use my time and  money elsewhere. And forget about buy Jade when she gets released if this is the mentality behind brand new frames.

[Leewaye]

59 minutes ago, kirajuno said:

Does anyone know if the loadout resetting is a bug? I haven't played Deep Archimedea at all yet, but after daily reset my entire loadout option changed after I spent time putting it together :(

 

The post states that it's supposed to reset on Mondays, so I'm not sure if I missed something or if it bugged out.

Yeah same thing happened to me it says resets weekly

[DATAJackTheRipper]

Thank you for nerfing Nezha to the ground, time to embrace Saryn again.
For those who sad Nezha has no LoS , we have Gauss that has larger radius but higher damage, faster cast and lower cost too.

Edited April 5 by DATAJackTheRipper

[Kosynth]

Please don't report me for leeching when I have to cast twice-thrice as much to get the same amount of overguard

[Waeleto]

Just now, Kosynth said:

Please don't report me for leeching when I have to cast twice-thrice as much to get the same amount of overguard

By the time dante reaches max overguard now styanax will have reached it already and started killing enemies to max his molt augmented 

[wolfkxits]

I might be in the minority here, but I really don't like how the change to GI lighting looks. My orbiter looked very nice and moody prior to this hotfix, but now it looks so washed out. I use the zariman wall panels as the roof and floor of my orbiter but now they look so dull and washed out, I definitely prefer the darker and moodier vibes of the old GI lighting too. But, hey if these changes help others with their fashionframe then that's good I guess.

[AkstilletoLife]

Man I really hope the intention here was to just completely destroy any goodwill and trust DE had been building with the community... I can't see this really accomplishing anything else. It's particularly egregious because Rebecca and Scott went out of their way to imply you all had been using a light touch when evaluating Dante and these other changes, but this is just beyond heavy-handed.

I suppose as far as being constructive with this criticism goes, consider the following changes if you actually have an interest in addressing the core balance issues with Dante and not just an interest in making him less enjoyable.

-Initial Overguard from Triumph is now only given to Dante, Light Verse retains it's current function and both are reverted to pre-nerf numbers, since changing the amount of Overguard granted does not fix any of the fundamental issues with giving it to teammates. (The only aspect that could be considered Dominant or Disruptive) The OG cap is fine, I don't think it's much of a detriment given that it scales with Strength.

-Remove LoS checks from Tragedy, Dark Verse already has these, so there's really no reason to require the finisher to have the same restrictions as the setup. If Dante is nuking with only Tragedy, the player isn't in a high enough level mission for balance consideration anyway. Reduced base range would be a very acceptable nerf, if the team truly feels that Dante so drastically outperforms other room clears, even if I personally disagree.

All in all, as someone who purchased the Dante bundle to show support for you guys and the job I thought you were doing, this is incredibly disappointing work, and I feel bait-and-switched at this point. I hope you all listen to the negative feedback and at least reconsider the approach to nerfing Dante, because this is not it.

[neonfirefox]

back to using saryn i guess lol, just when i had nezha crafted for uss

 

[Kosynth]

2 minutes ago, AkstilletoLife said:

Man I really hope the intention here was to just completely destroy any goodwill and trust DE had been building with the community... I can't see this really accomplishing anything else. It's particularly egregious because Rebecca and Scott went out of their way to imply you all had been using a light touch when evaluating Dante and these other changes, but this is just beyond heavy-handed.

I suppose as far as being constructive with this criticism goes, consider the following changes if you actually have an interest in addressing the core balance issues with Dante and not just an interest in making him less enjoyable.

-Initial Overguard from Triumph is now only given to Dante, Light Verse retains it's current function and both are reverted to pre-nerf numbers, since changing the amount of Overguard granted does not fix any of the fundamental issues with giving it to teammates. (The only aspect that could be considered Dominant or Disruptive) The OG cap is fine, I don't think it's much of a detriment given that it scales with Strength.

-Remove LoS checks from Tragedy, Dark Verse already has these, so there's really no reason to require the finisher to have the same restrictions as the setup. If Dante is nuking with only Tragedy, the player isn't in a high enough level mission for balance consideration anyway. Reduced base range would be a very acceptable nerf, if the team truly feels that Dante so drastically outperforms other room clears, even if I personally disagree.

All in all, as someone who purchased the Dante bundle to show support for you guys and the job I thought you were doing, this is incredibly disappointing work, and I feel bait-and-switched at this point. I hope you all listen to the negative feedback and at least reconsider the approach to nerfing Dante, because this is not it.

Just get styanax hes like dante... but better anyways

 

I also bought the same bundle because I wanted to be a wizard. but I can't be a wizard. Only spearchad

Edited April 5 by Kosynth

[REEEEcola]

Horrible changes to Dante, he hasn't even been out for month. #*!%ing revert the changes, come back to him in a year if you want. He's not saryn or octavia, and you people seriously kneejerk reaction nerf Dante while Torid still exists? Disgusting.

[FuzzyRamen]

Love seeing what DE does best yet again. Nerfs...

[FeraGru]

7 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Final Verse’s “Tragedy” now only affects enemies within Line of Sight.

• This felt like the most reasonable change to Tragedy since it could be cast back to back without much forethought on positioning. So to make it a more active ability, enemies must now be within range in your Line of Sight to be impacted by it. 

 

To be totally fair here, this was only ever any kind of issue with star chart SOLELY because his 3 does enough damage that any you store up will obliterate anything else not currently affected by bleeds. Go to Albrecht's Lab tilesets and you're already not room clearing with every cast of Tragedy because of the sheer tankiness of the enemies as a result of their status immunity. 
As everyone else is saying, there is already an astronomical problem with line of sight abilities just straight up not working on enemies that are 5 feet in front of you. I think the line of sight thing is totally fine on his 3, though many disagree, but tacking that on to Tragedy is mindboggling. The only reason Triumph is viable at these lower stats is because you can take the time to use Tragedy to keep some enemies at bay whilst you recast Triumph.

I went from feeling the last few weeks like I wasn't having fun and didn't have anything to properly work towards, and then I saw stuff about Dante and got excited again for a frame, something that hasn't happened in quite some time. I went immediately and farmed Dante up and generally enjoyed the mission. Then I levelled Dante. I had an absolute blast. This is a Warframe that can be pretty standalone in any situation but also bolsters all the other frames. I genuinely, genuinely enjoyed playing Dante and having powerful tools at my disposal. I just ran my first mission with him after these changes and I'm already not having nearly as much fun. He's not a room-clearer at stupid high levels. Hell, in Netracells he didn't even completely room clear, but he was GENUINELY FUN TO PLAY. I loved chaining his abilities constantly but it's hard to enjoy now when Tragedy doesn't do anywhere close to what it did before. 
As far as I'm concerned, every other change to him was spot on and totally cool with me. But the line of sight was a total knee-jerk reaction and shouldn't have been made. You're going to see his usage majorly fall off.

[AeinzPrime]

At this point just nerf EVERY NUKE frame in the game 

[SkellyPrime0]

Does DE not know what new toy syndrome is? When Gauss Prime came out you would see Gauss everywhere for like a week before people went back to playing their mains. Same thing is going to happen with Protea Prime and Jade. 

[iiReapzx]

8 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Final Verse’s “Tragedy” now only affects enemies within Line of Sight.

• This felt like the most reasonable change to Tragedy since it could be cast back to back without much forethought on positioning. So to make it a more active ability, enemies must now be within range in your Line of Sight to be impacted by it.

 

This needs to be reverted ASAP. There is nothing reasonable about this change. This is the worst possible solution to his nuking when y'all could have just instead nerfed the base range of the ability since its way too high in the first place. It should just match the range of Light and Dark Verse or be slightly higher than that so you can only get up to a maximum of 50 meters or so like other warframes with nuking abilities. I literally cannot hit enemies in the same room as me because of minor obstacles. This ability is now completely dead.

Edited April 5 by iiReapzx

[S13g]

Ya'know I had to rewrite my post several times and temper my frustration over Dante's change. Seems heavy handed and knee jerk to me and I feel their are several more important matters at hand here that need to be addressed and Dante is just bringing them to light. Please look at the root and not the branches.

[GenerikIntrovert]

Honestly I'm getting real tired of forced random loadouts. I get that you don't want people using the same stuff all the time, but forcing me to use literal trash weapons with terrible builds in steel path is not fun game play. I have spent years putting together a large arsenal of frames and weapons that I find fun. being told no use this random trash instead is frustrating.

[KomuiWindstout]

To be fair, the changes to Dante's overguard doesn't bother me that much. Sure they're inconvenient, but not the end of the world. Tragedy's LoS nerf though... I would have preffered some damage nerfs over the LoS; more casts, more energy spent, but better consistency.

[MrBoople]

Genuinely can't wait to see what they do.

Either revert/nerf to an acceptable degree/remove LoS/remove OG from others

OR

continue acting like these nerfs make sense and are in good faith while pocketing the money/plat/time people spent on Dante whether that's time wasted waiting for foundry or the few days of enjoyment we got out a genuinely fun new frame.

I'm done sitting in these 2 forums being angry. There's always helldivers.