[Dante Unbound] Our plans for next week (35.5.6)

[ShaloomHD]

9 minutes ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

Already did in the other posts and you didn't read so idk what else to tell you <3

so your wrong is 3 is the best primer all you have said would either kill before you could nuke or you would need alot of heat stacks for his 4 to nuke and even then they would die before hand unless on sp armor and again his 4 would do nothing or show me game play of heat stacks killing with his 4..... is 3 is the best and it was LOS the main issue with his 4 without LOS or the range it has was nuking low levels removing the base damage would stop this cuz why else LOS or range cuz none kill with his 4 with heat procs or toxic unless its shields but toxic would long kill b4 hand 

[ShaloomHD]

1 minute ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

You don't need to use any of these. I'm just telling you that there are ways that you can play the game beyond slamming your head into your keyboard that gets you much further.

"lol mecha" problem?

And again grineer are not the only enemy in the game, other status' have use

yeah i get theres more then armor in game but name a frame that cant nuke shields and flesh mecha not a problem just not great at mass status procing needed for his 4 to nuke unless its slash 

and your saying them you said are the reason for his 4 was nerfed thats just not true has low levels is 4 needs nothing to nuke 

[Mayhem-Ivory]

Remove LoS -> Reduce Range/base damage 

Copying/rewording this from my forum post.
DE, my guys, if the range-damage was the issue, why didn't you just say so?
Simply "we feel as a damage ability without LoS, the range of Tragedy is too big. we are considering reducing the range or adding LoS."

The community would love to work with you on fixing issues. If Xaku's The Vast Untime is fine at 25m without LoS, and Dante's Tragedy is too much with 30m, then just reduce it to 25m!

This entire drama could have been avoided; and in fact, you can quite easily make it up to the community!
Dante's playstyle has an enabler and a detonator; and the detonator not reaching enemies puts a severe dampener on Dante's playability. If reducing the range of Tragedy down to The Vast Untime's 25m or even down to Dark Verse's 20m removes the need for a LoS check, then that is simply the correct action to take!

Better yet if you could simply remove the 6,500 base damage and make it purely a detonator.

So please do that. Thank you guys; lot's of love~ 

[RavlinWasTaken]

10 minutes ago, ShaloomHD said:

yeah i get theres more then armor in game but name a frame that cant nuke shields and flesh mecha not a problem just not great at mass status procing needed for his 4 to nuke unless its slash 

and your saying them you said are the reason for his 4 was nerfed thats just not true has low levels is 4 needs nothing to nuke 

 

13 minutes ago, ShaloomHD said:

so your wrong is 3 is the best primer all you have said would either kill before you could nuke or you would need alot of heat stacks for his 4 to nuke and even then they would die before hand unless on sp armor and again his 4 would do nothing or show me game play of heat stacks killing with his 4..... is 3 is the best and it was LOS the main issue with his 4 without LOS or the range it has was nuking low levels removing the base damage would stop this cuz why else LOS or range cuz none kill with his 4 with heat procs or toxic unless its shields but toxic would long kill b4 hand 

I keep saying I have no skin in about the initial damage cause I don't think that has ever been the point the DE had an issue. The priming is how Dante works.

(idk how youtube embeds work in this forum so bare with me)

This is damage cap

https://youtu.be/LpgsSQ5odjY?si=SCio-37YqA4W7HP4

Edited April 10 by RavlinWasTaken
Mention that the simple 2 casts hit damage cap

[ShaloomHD]

4 minutes ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

 

I keep saying I have no skin in about the initial damage cause I don't think that has ever been the point the DE had an issue. The priming is how Dante works.

(idk how youtube embeds work in this forum so bare with me)

This is damage cap

https://youtu.be/LpgsSQ5odjY?si=SCio-37YqA4W7HP4

but hes using his 3 that is slash he didnt kill with just not using his 3  plus thats base steel path that makes it even funnier that he still uses is 3 to kill with his 4 

 

and is 3 is LOS and only 30m is range 

Edited April 10 by ShaloomHD

[RavlinWasTaken]

Just now, ShaloomHD said:

but hes using his 3 that is slash he didnt kill with just not using his 3 

The slash alone wouldn't hit damage cap in just 2 casts it would need additional effects on top of roar. It could get close when the status damage multiplier returns

[(XBOX)toughdragon17]

18 minutes ago, DarthVZ said:

At this point I'm not really certain about their ability of critical thinking

Who's DE or the comunity  ?

[ShaloomHD]

1 minute ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

The slash alone wouldn't hit damage cap in just 2 casts it would need additional effects on top of roar. It could get close when the status damage multiplier returns

But thats nothing theres more then dante that can hit damage cap and even if he didnt he would still kill its slash procs and thats base steel path and he abilities aint cheap has you go up in levels it will take more cast s of his 3 

3 minutes ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

The slash alone wouldn't hit damage cap in just 2 casts it would need additional effects on top of roar. It could get close when the status damage multiplier returns

also your telling me you would need the extra status to kill? i dont think so 

[Circle_of_Psi]

3 hours ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

People going out of their way to tag members of staff and berate them, often for things they are not even involved in within the company.

People going out there a way to berate them for things they are not even involved in within the company, yeah that can be pretty scummy either way, but what people seem to fail to understand is that there is a huge difference between berating them and putting a foot down.

As you can see, other players have mentioned that DE has intentionally ignored everyone on this topic, all while acting like they have  "no regrets, not understanding why people are upset, just flippantly treating it as mistakes were made" as many people have clearly pointed out here and it's nothing but the truth.

If you feel that this falls under "berating" then I don't know what else to tell you, since again I don't know who you are and how you see things from your side and I don't really want to assume based on text and profile pics, speaking of, nothing wrong with your Profile but usually when people have a certain profile it paints an assumption based image of who and what they are, as for example a Furry Pic or an MLP Pic or a pic of a Meme, etc. (How the net works or at least how I've got used to it being around for so long)

So without context, I can not know what line of the Sand you stand on, Are you against the Nerf or are you White Knighting, or are you in-between, I have no clue, besides what I read.

 

Context will be helpful my friend :D

Edited April 10 by Circle_of_Psi

[Circle_of_Psi]

2 hours ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

 keep saying I have no skin in about the initial damage cause I don't think that has ever been the point the DE had an issue. The priming is how Dante works.

I'm a little..confused here..Since players have sort of heked the narrative a bit here, ever since DE flopped the Devshort. 

Are you trying to explain to the person that if thus say, DE removed the initial damage from his 4th and it only dealt damage upon when you have Primed them, same as Nova's Ult works?

Since if Dante has to cast 3/3 (Porcing Damage/Slash) and then use whatever (Weapon or power) to proc Heat/Toxin, priming them then his 4th only dealing the status detonation damage, rather then the base damage it casts, this being Slash?

 

If so this makes perfect sense

Edited April 10 by Circle_of_Psi

[tartcactus]

Hey, DE. Somebody dropped another comment on Mesa, better get right on that one!

Their silence and their disrespect for their community is deafening. 

[Phoenician]

I never even thought about removing the 6500 base because I honestly don't see the issue.. Wiping Hydron? Wiping other low level star chart nodes? The base star chart is supposed to be the transitional area of the game upon completing which now takes you into base steel path, higher steel path, netracells, deep archimedea and it's elite variant. All of these require time investment into builds DESIGNED to perform in higher tier content.

Balancing a frame around lower level content when the push is to get playing higher level content seems very shortsighted and downright silly. In saying that? The base 6500 doesn't tickle the higher tier enemies so remove it, remove the LOS and the world continues on happy.

[RavlinWasTaken]

3 hours ago, ShaloomHD said:

But thats nothing theres more then dante that can hit damage cap and even if he didnt he would still kill its slash procs and thats base steel path and he abilities aint cheap has you go up in levels it will take more cast s of his 3 

also your telling me you would need the extra status to kill? i dont think so 

No. Im saying it would need them for damage cap. Please read what I say. Also ther are so many ways to bypass his energy consumption. Arcane Steadfast alone lets you spam so much

 

3 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

People going out there a way to berate them for things they are not even involved in within the company, yeah that can be pretty scummy either way, but what people seem to fail to understand is that there is a huge difference between berating them and putting a foot down.

As you can see, other players have mentioned that DE has intentionally ignored everyone on this topic, all while acting like they have  "no regrets, not understanding why people are upset, just flippantly treating it as mistakes were made" as many people have clearly pointed out here and it's nothing but the truth.

If you feel that this falls under "berating" then I don't know what else to tell you, since again I don't know who you are and how you see things from your side and I don't really want to assume based on text and profile pics, speaking of, nothing wrong with your Profile but usually when people have a certain profile it paints an assumption based image of who and what they are, as for example a Furry Pic or an MLP Pic or a pic of a Meme, etc. (How the net works or at least how I've got used to it being around for so long)

So without context, I can not know what line of the Sand you stand on, Are you against the Nerf or are you White Knighting, or are you in-between, I have no clue, besides what I read.

 

Context will be helpful my friend :D

I mean, respectfully, DE are not your friends. They have no reason to feel regret and sorrow over this, they are working their job and we got a sorry from them. But there are people acting like DE personally kicked their dog in front of them.

 

Re - the nerfs, pretty on the LoS side as long as they properly correct all the weird bugs, it should've been there on release imo but I wouldn't go call them liars for changing it after release. That's not how development and game as service work.

3 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

I'm a little..confused here..Since players have sort of S#&amp;&#036;ed the narrative a bit here, ever since DE flopped the Devshort. 

Are you trying to explain to the person that if thus say, DE removed the initial damage from his 4th and it only dealt damage upon when you have Primed them, same as Nova's Ult works?

Since if Dante has to cast 3/3 (Porcing Damage/Slash) and then use whatever (Weapon or power) to proc Heat/Toxin, priming them then his 4th only dealing the status detonation damage, rather then the base damage it casts, this being Slash?

 

If so this makes perfect sense

From what I can tell, people are asking them to remove LoS and the damage that Tragedy does itself (not the status detonation) and I don't think that would solve the actual concerns that people had when Dante first came out, as the issue was never that part of the damage calc. They then go on to say that DE said the nerfs were because of low-level nuking with the initial damage, and as far as I see, they did not say that.

[ShaloomHD]

13 minutes ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

No. Im saying it would need them for damage cap. Please read what I say. Also ther are so many ways to bypass his energy consumption. Arcane Steadfast alone lets you spam so much

Yes and im saying you dont need damage cap for slash to kill level cap also dont need no other status to kill with slash 

[Nero.DMC]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But that isnt true. You are completely ignoring how much dps you actually lose on tragedy by running around and spreading out your dark verse. It's as if you dont consider the mechanics of Final Verse at all.

No lol, that is extremely wrong, if you stay in one place spam 2 dark into tragedy and then move into the next place and do the same you have to move the same distance than dark verse move into dark verse and tragedy... even if you throw in an extra dark verse its still faster.

Quote

Each extra Dark Verse you decide to apply across the map effectively reduces how much damage your previous Dark Verses will deal when you finaly detonate them. Each second that passes by is another portion lost that will not be multiplied by the massive detonation bonus. Each seperate Dark Verse cast on a new group also reduces how many stacks each group has, since it applies 2 stacks per cast. So focusing on what is infront of you and then detonating mostly results in 4 stacks per target with 5-6 seconds worth of status ticks to consume and multiply the damage on. Each second that passes is 16% of the primed damage that will never be included in the multiplier.

It does not matter, 1 dark verse is plenty for most enemies, i dont expect to kill eximus without LoS just the trash i marked while moving. And the fact that as you are pointing out you start too loose damage if you dont detonate is actually an argument to remove LoS if you dont mark and wait too long you will do very little damage. (6 seconds is a lot of time in those small enclosed spaces tho and you get to mark a bunch of enemies that are tightly packed but sadly not on LoS)

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

This results in as you toot around to spread your bleeds, the likelyhood that targets survive in the first group you primed gets higher and higher, since they mostly take the low slash ticks that are not multiplied and are left with only a few tick for you to consume as you cast Final Verse. Meaning you either need to cast more on them or shoot/melee them in order to die, since well, you just consumed all remaining status ticks, so nothing is left to finish them of.

No, a lot of people played like this before its simply not true, you could absolutely play that way and it worked fine, just now you cant.

 

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

As to the last part, no. People have claimed the labs are horrible since the added LoS requirement, it isnt. I did it this monday for EDA and there was nothing blocking me, no matter if I was on the other side of a railing or other environmental obstructions, it hit upwards, downwards, to the sides aslong as it was a PoV angle for LoS, no matter how little I saw of the mobs. And it is the same in the void, I can stand on the bottom and cast up on a balcony and still hit enemies mostly covered up by planters etc. There are LoS issues for some, but claiming it removes 80% of your former targets is just ridiculous.

you are missquoting me here, i did not say it removed 80% across the board, i said 20% usually but in some tiles it definetely remove almost all posible targets, those small tunnels feels like crap you simply cannot use Tragedy there (even if you marked those enemies)

In any case is such a bad justification you have going there, you already marked the enemy you should NOT need to keep him in LoS in order to detonate

 

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But that isnt true. You are completely ignoring how much dps you actually lose on tragedy by running around and spreading out your dark verse. It's as if you dont consider the mechanics of Final Verse at all.

No lol, that is extremely wrong, if you stay in one place spam 2 dark into tragedy and then move into the next place and do the same you have to move the same distance than dark verse move into dark verse and tragedy... even if you throw in an extra dark verse its still faster.

Quote

Each extra Dark Verse you decide to apply across the map effectively reduces how much damage your previous Dark Verses will deal when you finaly detonate them. Each second that passes by is another portion lost that will not be multiplied by the massive detonation bonus. Each seperate Dark Verse cast on a new group also reduces how many stacks each group has, since it applies 2 stacks per cast. So focusing on what is infront of you and then detonating mostly results in 4 stacks per target with 5-6 seconds worth of status ticks to consume and multiply the damage on. Each second that passes is 16% of the primed damage that will never be included in the multiplier.

It does not matter, 1 dark verse is plenty for most enemies, i dont expect to kill eximus without LoS just the trash i marked while moving. And the fact that as you are pointing out you start too loose damage if you dont detonate is actually an argument to remove LoS if you dont mark and wait too long you will do very little damage. (6 seconds is a lot of time in those small enclosed spaces tho and you get to mark a bunch of enemies that are tightly packed but sadly not on LoS)

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

This results in as you toot around to spread your bleeds, the likelyhood that targets survive in the first group you primed gets higher and higher, since they mostly take the low slash ticks that are not multiplied and are left with only a few tick for you to consume as you cast Final Verse. Meaning you either need to cast more on them or shoot/melee them in order to die, since well, you just consumed all remaining status ticks, so nothing is left to finish them of.

No, a lot of people played like this before its simply not true, you could absolutely play that way and it worked fine, just now you cant.

 

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

As to the last part, no. People have claimed the labs are horrible since the added LoS requirement, it isnt. I did it this monday for EDA and there was nothing blocking me, no matter if I was on the other side of a railing or other environmental obstructions, it hit upwards, downwards, to the sides aslong as it was a PoV angle for LoS, no matter how little I saw of the mobs. And it is the same in the void, I can stand on the bottom and cast up on a balcony and still hit enemies mostly covered up by planters etc. There are LoS issues for some, but claiming it removes 80% of your former targets is just ridiculous.

you are missquoting me here, i did not say it removed 80% across the board, i said 20% usually but in some tiles it definetely remove almost all posible targets, those small tunnels feels like crap you simply cannot use Tragedy there (even if you marked those enemies)

In any case is such a bad justification you have going there, you already marked the enemy you should NOT need to keep him in LoS in order to detonate

 

[RavlinWasTaken]

41 minutes ago, ShaloomHD said:

Yes and im saying you dont need damage cap for slash to kill level cap also dont need no other status to kill with slash 

I never said you need it, I am saying that it's so easy to hit the damage cap that nerfs were obviously inbound, like what they did to wisp and contagion. DE are very open that the damage cap is not an intended goal for anything.

[Nero.DMC]

another duplicate :C

 

Edited April 10 by Nero.DMC

[_Akasha]

As of the dev shorts this week only mentioning Inaros and Nidus for the overgaurd and rage changes, I would like to remind the devs that Kulervo exists and should also have said changes applied to him too. Just because a frame can generate his own overguard does not mean he shouldnt meet the requirements the other frames do for having a health pool and nothing else. 

[Mayhem-Ivory]

vor einer Stunde schrieb RavlinWasTaken:

From what I can tell, people are asking them to remove LoS and the damage that Tragedy does itself (not the status detonation) and I don't think that would solve the actual concerns that people had when Dante first came out, as the issue was never that part of the damage calc.

They then go on to say that DE said the nerfs were because of low-level nuking with the initial damage, and as far as I see, they did not say that.

Okay so, two points:

• The concerns that people had when Dante first came out were, as far as I could tell, always about the Overguard and not the damage, much less the LoS.
• If people are worried about "kill-stealing" or Dante "nuking the map" before they can do anything themselves, that is indeed only the damage of Tragedy. That is because the status detonation is reliant mostly on Dark Verse, which has less range and uses LoS.

Concerning why people are now asking specifically for the removal of either the damage or reduction of the range:

• DE Steve & Rebecca said on DevShort 11 that a damage ability with such range is unprecedented, and that that is why they added LoS. They compared Tragedy to Xaku's The Vast Untime which has a range of 25m instead of Dante's 30m. Personally I'm pretty sure they were talking about the range, regardless of if the damage comes from the ability itself or the status detonation; but a lot of folks seem to have interpreted that as "as long as either damage or range are gone, it is no longer a high-range damage ability".
• The part about "low-level nuking" is conjecture by the community, based on the statements about long-range damage abilities and the limitations on the status detonation due to Dark Verse.

Edited April 10 by Mayhem-Ivory

[tartcactus]

DE is not considering anything we, in the Forums, are talking about. If anything, they will cherry pick the posts by their white knight defenders (DE Alt Accounts?) That support their attempts to make a silk purse out of the Loss of Sight sow's ear. Trust me, they ate about to break way more frames trying to save this one awful nerf. I have zero faith in DE anymore. Seriously, just keep everything like it is now. Refund any monies spent by anyone on this frame you do not want people to play and stop flailing at this windmill. You keep flailing like this and you are going to take someone's eye out.

[Nero.DMC]

2 minutes ago, tartcactus said:

DE is not considering anything we, in the Forums, are talking about. If anything, they will cherry pick the posts by their white knight defenders (DE Alt Accounts?) That support their attempts to make a silk purse out of the Loss of Sight sow's ear. Trust me, they ate about to break way more frames trying to save this one awful nerf. I have zero faith in DE anymore. Seriously, just keep everything like it is now. Refund any monies spent by anyone on this frame you do not want people to play and stop flailing at this windmill. You keep flailing like this and you are going to take someone's eye out.

They will break other frames for sure while trying to fix LoS, it does not mean they should not try and fix it tho but they defo will break it, their QA deparment is non existant.

[Shinoyami65]

57 minutes ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

I never said you need it, I am saying that it's so easy to hit the damage cap that nerfs were obviously inbound, like what they did to wisp and contagion. DE are very open that the damage cap is not an intended goal for anything.

They only nerfed Wisp around a year after the Exodia Contagion build was created, so probably not the best example given that one of the main criticisms is DE leaping to nerf Dante despite being far less egregious.

Edited April 10 by Shinoyami65

[ShaloomHD]

59 minutes ago, RavlinWasTaken said:

I never said you need it, I am saying that it's so easy to hit the damage cap that nerfs were obviously inbound, like what they did to wisp and contagion. DE are very open that the damage cap is not an intended goal for anything.

But thats not why he was nerfed DE even said the damage he could deal was not the issue 

[tartcactus]

So, the problem with continuing to flail at the Loss of Sight problem while

A. Not fixing the frame you initially broke and

B. Breaking multiple other frames because, again, You are FLAILING

will only serve to torque off more of your community. Not sure just how much of that DE can stand. Far better to roll back the code changes to Dante, five a genuine and sincere apology for panicking because people actually LIKED a new frame and put the issue of truly fixing Loss of Sight into the sober and very capable hands of Pablo. He can then roll his solution into a main upgrade and it will work. And you would gain valuable data from usage of Dante. And you would regain some good faith from your community, you know, the ones who can make you profitable, or not

[ChrizReaper]

On 2024-04-05 at 1:55 PM, [DE]Momaw said:

It's been an exciting week for Warframe. Following the very positive launch of Dante Unbound, we threw open the doors to the Deep Archimedea and Elite Deep Archimedea. People have been laughing all the way to the bank with their new-found riches of Archon Shards.

But there's also been some missteps which we must take responsibility and apologize for, with regard to Dante himself and the rapid changes that caught people unawares. We've already made a big correction by fixing the new Line of Sight calculations which were, to put it bluntly, not as good as they should have been on release.

We never stop reviewing feedback, and in the spirit of making constant improvements to our game, here's a preview of our next steps in response to what players have said:

• Adding back and formalizing the Status Damage Vulnerability to Dante's "Pageflight". In other words not just making enemies take more Status procs, but also increasing the damage of their Status. We removed this in Hotfix 35.5.3 because it was unexpected, and we regarded it as a bug. But many of you have expressed a desire to have this back, so we are working to restore it.
• Improving the co-op play between Warframes that give their teammates Overguard and Warframes that rely on taking damage:
  • Vex Armor can charge its damage buff by getting ranged kills and its armor buff by getting melee or ability kills. This is in addition to the existing functionality. This allows Vex Armor to work while having Overguard and also in general provides a nice interaction where you can get the buff faster from playing well and not just from tanking hits.
  • Rage/Hunter Adrenaline will now grant Energy when you don't have Shields, so Inaros and Nidus (or any frame when their Shields are temporarily down), can regenerate Energy even through Overguard.

You can expect to see a Hotfix next week that adds these items. Other forms of self damage like Combat Discipline will also be reviewed in the future. We have definitely heard you on this point, we're just not sure that it will be done as quickly as the other interactions already mentioned.

 

 

Please look in to dante his 1 i have two different dante builds and i have forma on him and his 1 was already Forma from my other build please make it to where im able to forma his 1 with my other dante build and please fix the los check to his 4 tragedy he was amazing before when he dropped?