Doomed to Repeat it.

[Divine_Intellect]

Well, here we are. You and me. We've known each other for over a decade. Not quite sure why I expected more, why I KEEP expecting more. 

Everyone reading this knows what I'm about to say. LoS bad. Dante very fun, now very not fun. Mushroom frame make enemy go bye-bye faster. But let's be honest, the ones we are most disappointed in, are ourselves, because time and again we have EXPECTATIONS that are NOT MET. 

Fellow veterans of the community have seen this same song and dance so many times, we can almost predict the future. I'll do it right now: the LoS changes will not be reverted, DE will ignore public outcry because the wishes of their community are secondary to their pride, and Dante, the most fun warframe released in years, will be sent to the shadow realm alongside frames like Yareli and Loki.

Seriously, what an amazingly well thought-out frame. What a DELIGHT he was to play, and how cool did I feel, eviscerating my enemies whilst donning the mantle of an archmage. What an absolute MISTAKE it was to come back for this.

How many times can one break something into pieces and rebuild it from the debris before naught remains to rebuild with? Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it. When will we learn, fellow Tenno?

Edited April 5 by Divine_Intellect

[JimothyStevens]

28 minutes ago, Divine_Intellect said:

Well, here we are. You and me. We've known each other for over a decade. Not quite sure why I expected more, why I KEEP expecting more. 

Everyone reading this knows what I'm about to say. LoS bad. Dante very fun, now very not fun. Mushroom frame make enemy go bye-bye faster. But let's be honest, the ones we are most disappointed in, are ourselves, because time and again we have EXPECTATIONS that are NOT MET. 

Fellow veterans of the community have seen this same song and dance so many times, we can almost predict the future. I'll do it right now: the LoS changes will not be reverted, DE will ignore public outcry because the wishes of their community are secondary to their pride, and Dante, the most fun warframe released in years, will be sent to the shadow realm alongside frames like Yareli and Loki.

Seriously, what an amazingly well thought-out frame. What a DELIGHT he was to play, and how cool did I feel, eviscerating my enemies whilst donning the mantle of an archmage. What an absolute MISTAKE it was to come back for this.

How many times can one break something into pieces and rebuild it from the debris before naught remains to rebuild with? Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it. When will we learn, fellow Tenno?

I feel the same way. Got duped into thinking they would do better. They'll probably delete this thread and comments because they don't like the criticism.

[Gaxxian]

hace 32 minutos, Divine_Intellect dijo:

Fellow veterans of the community have seen this same song and dance so many times, we can almost predict the future. I'll do it right now: the LoS changes will not be reverted, DE will ignore public outcry because the wishes of their community are secondary to their pride, and Dante, the most fun warframe released in years, will be sent to the shadow realm alongside frames like Yareli and Loki.

Yeah, i've seen this exact behaviour before.

Now its when they will let the weekend to cool the ambience, so the people will start to stop complaining because they get distracted/bored/tired.
Then they will give us some breadcrumbs mid next week and people will praise them and thank them like saviors (heck, they were already praised & thanked by the bugged delivery LoS rework from today... something that they should have done years ago and today they showed that they could have been done in just a few days if they really wanted to...).
And then the nerf will remain, no so hard as the first iteration, but nearly the same, yet people will go to the next topic and nothing will change.

All that while they laugh at us telling that they are "listening" to our feedback.

[sh0shin]

If they actually acknowledge that the reversion is being argued for, that would be such a good first step toward rebuilding bridges. They completely ignore it and refuse to respond to it directly so far. I don't get it.

DE is so great when it comes to actually working with the people and hosting this lovely community, but god forbid you challenge their "balance" in a game where you're a literal demigod with a million ways of already 1 shotting everything in the game.

What was Dante doing to suddenly get changed at all. He just got released. How was there enough good data to "tweak" him? 50 bajillion users (of course not all active, but that means this affects casuals even more...) but probably less than 20% actually own a Dante. Dominant how?

If he broke the "automates gameplay" rule, so did Revenant. The most popular frame of 2023, so technically also "dominant."

If he broke the "disrupts gameplay," so do selfish frames like Nidus, Limbo, Mesa, Saryn especially when she meets another Saryn since they literally are fighting over each other...

---

I'm not even trying to argue for any changes in this post. I just want to clearly understand their theories  and logic that go into this development. I think many others would benefit from the same. We love picking your brains, knowing what makes you and your teams tick.

Thanks.

[Gaxxian]

hace 1 minuto, sh0shin dijo:

If he broke the "automates gameplay" rule, so did Revenant. The most popular frame of 2023, so technically also "dominant."

Dominant and make a whole team immortal with a refreshable (you don't even need to wait until is fully used, nor it has cooldown) and cheap ability. Also, with the correct build you can clear whole rooms with his 4 without issues.

Its not "automatic" but its clearly very "dominant" and he also avoids people with Rage/Adrenaline to take damage and regenerate energy, so... its also "disrupting" (the blinding lights are also disrupting into their own way).

hace 4 minutos, sh0shin dijo:

If he broke the "disrupts gameplay," so do selfish frames like Nidus, Limbo, Mesa, Saryn especially when she meets another Saryn since they literally are fighting over each other...

Literally everybody disrupts Nidus, since he needs to build charges hitting enemies and if people kills fast he ends being a meme. I stopped playing him for that reason... you use Larva to be able to press 1, but somebody shots to the group and you end wasting 2 abilities and without recovering the energy.

 

There is no logic behind this.

[NuxWalpurgis]

4 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

Yeah, i've seen this exact behaviour before.

Now its when they will let the weekend to cool the ambience, so the people will start to stop complaining because they get distracted/bored/tired.
Then they will give us some breadcrumbs mid next week and people will praise them and thank them like saviors (heck, they were already praised & thanked by the bugged delivery LoS rework from today... something that they should have done years ago and today they showed that they could have been done in just a few days if they really wanted to...).
And then the nerf will remain, no so hard as the first iteration, but nearly the same, yet people will go to the next topic and nothing will change.

All that while they laugh at us telling that they are "listening" to our feedback.

Eh I dunno this time. They screwed up more than just Dante with this patch, and less than 5 days after his release. I'm a whale for this game but I'm absolutely not going to be buying any new release packs or even just a new base Warframe moving forward. This set of patches was egregious enough to make quite clear that the old, weird standard of nuking anything fun and spiting anyone who complains is still the pattern and that Eclipse was a fluke.

Not only that, but to screw up their new toys this badly literally two DAYS after a Devshort explicitly stated it wasn't going to be done leaves a *horrible* taste for anything they say moving forward. How reliable should they be considered if *two days* after Rebecca explicitly states that they're going to be analyzing data as things cool off from release week to *carefully* make *minor tweaks* on the Devshort, they nerf that exact Warframe's damage and functionality by adding their janky line of sight mechanic to an ultimate that didn't have it for the first 5 days of release? The setup ability already has line of sight anyway. It was a pointless change no one asked for when the mechanics people DID have problems with were buffed until people complained for about 18 hours straight.

Are their Devshorts just pointless unreliable streams? What is the point if statements made can be immediately invalidated? I can't assume that their statements in Devshorts are reliable. Why should I assume anything else they say is?

Rhetorical statements of course. They aren't reliable, hence why I'm not spending anything on Jade or anyone else until they can show an actual pattern of being trustworthy.

If they aren't going to follow their own "adjustment" philosophy, they aren't going to keep to their stated intent with "adjustments" on Devstreams, and they aren't going to effectively communicate with the player base or take their *actual* suggestions into account until they have to deal with sustained complaints, then I'm not going to continue to support them. Why would I? I have literally no idea what I'd be supporting at this point.

[Gaxxian]

hace 4 minutos, NuxWalpurgis dijo:

Eh I dunno this time. They screwed up more than just Dante with this patch, and less than 5 days after his release.

This time was specially outrageous, true, but until now they are following all the steps from their manual:

1. Continue pushing their bs while they tell that they are "listening" but at the same time they answer like doesn't exist any pushback.

2. Push a halfbaked "hotfix" just before the weekend that doesn't work.

3. Let the people "get over / forget" about the nerfs during the weekend.

4. Make another hotfix the next week that leaves in-game the bs that they did in first place but looks like they "worked hard".

Edited April 6 by Gaxxian
Typos

[Divine_Intellect]

Perhaps the most perplexing point made here was that the setup ability ALREADY HAS LoS requirements. On top of that, for every slash tick that trundles by, the damage of tragedy is reduced, making it even more difficult to imbalance a team. Dante felt great to play because playing him correctly felt rewarding, quickly marking as many enemies as possible to avoid decreasing the damage of tragedy by too much and then detonating them. Now it just feels like every other LoS ability that everyone hates. And don't even get me started on the Nezha nerf. 25m at max range feels terrible, and if you have less than max, you may as well not even use it. 

[OneOmniverse]

3 hours ago, Divine_Intellect said:

Well, here we are. You and me. We've known each other for over a decade. Not quite sure why I expected more, why I KEEP expecting more. 

Everyone reading this knows what I'm about to say. LoS bad. Dante very fun, now very not fun. Mushroom frame make enemy go bye-bye faster. But let's be honest, the ones we are most disappointed in, are ourselves, because time and again we have EXPECTATIONS that are NOT MET. 

Fellow veterans of the community have seen this same song and dance so many times, we can almost predict the future. I'll do it right now: the LoS changes will not be reverted, DE will ignore public outcry because the wishes of their community are secondary to their pride, and Dante, the most fun warframe released in years, will be sent to the shadow realm alongside frames like Yareli and Loki.

Seriously, what an amazingly well thought-out frame. What a DELIGHT he was to play, and how cool did I feel, eviscerating my enemies whilst donning the mantle of an archmage. What an absolute MISTAKE it was to come back for this.

How many times can one break something into pieces and rebuild it from the debris before naught remains to rebuild with? Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it. When will we learn, fellow Tenno?

Pretty much, but no I did learn I came back recently thinking things had changed after hearing good things about the game but obviously it was all lies and DE is still the same old DE ruining fun for their own community mind you smh it's sad and pathetic. But again I did learn I abandoned the game before and thought nothing of it and I guess I'll have to do it again which is fine. Eventually the game and DE will get to a place where they can't return and they'll only have themselves to blame 

[(PSN)thowed]

7 hours ago, JimothyStevens said:

I feel the same way. Got duped into thinking they would do better. They'll probably delete this thread and comments because they don't like the criticism.

This is one of the things I take alot of issue with.  We are told "we're listening", "we didn't know", "be civil", and all that kinda manure.  Meanwhile they hide, combine and even delete threads of criticism.  They get to act like children putting their fingers in their ears and singing but we are supposed to be "civil" when we were basically scammed (they knew how strong he was, took me 5 mins in first mission to realize he was getting the hammer).  Their actions and arrogant behavior is really telling on how much they "listen".  Maybe they'll sell me some regal aya to revert the changes lol.