Minimum RJ equipment to be host

[Void2258]

I am not usually a fan of hard locking content, but for RJ and especially for Lich confrontations, we need to have a minimum RJ equipment requirement to be host. Too often, the mission is simply incompletable because the host RJ is so weak it breaches constantly, often the second the mission starts and nearly instantly after every repair, eventually ending the mission in failure due to being unable to repair the RJ anymore (no revolite). Often in these cases the weapons on the RJ are also unupgraded and do essentially nothing to the enemies, further ensuring the mission will fail to the constant breaches. On the rare cases where the equipment is better but still insufficient, you an finish only after a exhaustively long grind due to the still too frequent breaches and still too low weapon damage. Neither of these options is fun for players and contributed to the general dislike of the game mode, which actually causes this issue since many people do not bother to upgrade their RJ equipment due to avoiding the mode because of this very thing happening.

Unlike in regular missions, you can't even carry a badly equipped player via your own gear, since only one RJ is present. The other 3 players are essentially at the mercy of the host's RJ equipment, so there needs to be a hard gear check on who is allowed to be the host to ensure a good experience.

[Zakkhar]

18 minutes ago, Void2258 said:

oo often, the mission is simply incompletable because the host RJ is so weak it breaches constantly

Leave. Find another game. Problem solved.

[Void2258]

Flag on play: Traitorous Critic Fallacy.

Referees' interjection: "Why are you opposed to making things better?”

[-AoN-CanoLathra-]

This is Warframe. If you don't enjoy doing it in pubs, get good enough to do it solo, or build your squad using recruiting chat.

I solo all of my Lich/Sister confrontations, unless I know one of my friends needs to do it in which case I carry them as host. In other words, I either solo or I build a squad.

[Void2258]

Flag on play: Complacency Fallacy

Referees' interjection: "You can hit a nail with a rock. That is no reason to not invent a hammer."

Edited April 13 by Void2258

[Zakkhar]

4 hours ago, Void2258 said:

Flag on play: Traitorous Critic Fallacy.

Referees' interjection: "Why are you opposed to making things better?”

It is not gonna be better. It may be better for you. At least you may think that atm.

Matchmaking is peer to peer. DE has trouble determining fast enough whether the host will have a good quality internet (because frankly it cannot be done fast if someone's ping is jumping up and down). You want itt to also determine whether their RJ meets minimum requirements? How do we measure it? Mods? Items? You know how many mods and items are in railjack? You want the matchmaikkng to check whether potential host has every single one of them and depending on number of 0 and 1 determine whetther they are over or under the arbitrary "gear score"? All you gonna get is a lots of code and longer queues.

 

You sound like a dude who wants to ban all the Taxi's which arent luxury cars, because you cant handle a little bump and no champagne.

Edited April 13 by Zakkhar

[IgnisWings]

I disagree with the points presented, and I understood your frustration until the "Flag on Play" replies. I know this is a complete conjecture on me reading the emotional subtexts in your responses but this is a strange hill to die on. 
Warframe is a videogame. If you love Railjack gamemodes, then I thought this kind of thing would inspire you to build your own? I remember at launch, before the rebalances and bugfixes, riding with a good host left me so bedazzled that I began work to build my own RJ, and riding with weaker hosts gave me fuel to continue my own progression through more difficult missions, Intrinsics leveling and Valence Fusions. Now the boot's on the other foot and I can host public missions, and even the times where nobody joins and I just complete a Skirmish by myself I'm having a blast. 
You can also just. Avoid playing Railjack, should you find it annoying. The only content it locks you out of is The New War Main Quest (which level scales to your equipment anyway and needs you to own an Amp and a Necramech as well) and the Call of The Tempestarii Side Quest (Sevagoth Main Blueprint). I apologize if I sound insensitive but I can't relate to taking the stance of locking all other players over scaling restrictions when you have the means of overcoming them by yourself (which in itself, has been really exciting and rewarding in my personal experience).

[IgnisWings]

16 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

Matchmaking is peer to peer. DE has trouble determining fast enough whether the host will have a good quality internet (because frankly it cannot be done fast if someone's ping is jumping up and down). You want itt to also determine whether their RJ meets minimum requirements? How do we measure it? Mods? Items? You know how many mods and items are in railjack? You want the matchmaikkng [sic] to check whether potential host has every single one of them and depending on number of 0 and 1 determine whetther they are over or under the arbitrary "gear score"? All you gonna get is a lots of code and longer queues.

☝️ This. Warframe is already juggling miracles to make it's networking operate cross-platform and taking community input and design choices to make sure as many builds and playstyles are viable, even if difficult to play. Installing a content lock to judge your Railjack would incentivize the meta-hunting DE is trying to avoid and next thing you know everyone is running Void Hole and Seeker Volley again because everything else wouldn't be able to be used under this hypothetical.

[Void2258]

Literally just specify a couple items, like "shields T3, Guns all T3" or such that are easy to check. Maybe "RJ is modded at all" (yes people do this in basic unmodded RJ right out of the shop). It doesn't need to be a difficult check, just something more than just intrinsics for RJ itself and anything at all to stop stock RJs from being host in the Lich/Sister confrontations.

If you don't want flag posts, don't reply with things like "shut up or leave" or "it can be done in a very odd and counterintuitive way, so stop saying it could be better".

[Zakkhar]

7 hours ago, Void2258 said:

like "shields T3, Guns all T3"

That requirement basically robs a player of any feeling of progress if they are to play only on public. Also there is no reason for them to upgrade their RJ at all. In some time all those T3 guys just stop playing RJ (because they already have t3 stuff and maxing the rest is not hard) or start playing solo because AI crew is more reliable than random people (and they do not need any intrinsics). I know thats what I do, because i play RJ when there is NW challenge or something and I really do not want random people to mess it up for me.

Also there are mission tiers. Going into Earth Proxima in unmodded RJ is just fine. Unlikely it  is gonna happen in Veil Proxima, because with current system there is incentive to progress the RJ before player hits the hard missions.

7 hours ago, Void2258 said:

If you don't want flag posts, don't reply with things like "shut up or leave"

Nobody said that. Are you projecting?

Edited April 14 by Zakkhar

[Zakkhar]

7 hours ago, Void2258 said:

or "it can be done in a very odd and counterintuitive way, so stop saying it could be better".

You can say it could be better all your want. But it will not be better because you are not a hammer inventor. Your hammer happens to be made out of marshmallow.

[Void2258]

8 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

23 hours ago, Zakkhar said:

Leave. Find another game. Problem solved.

Nobody said that. Are you projecting?

You said that. Are you amnesiac?

[Zakkhar]

4 hours ago, Void2258 said:

You said that. Are you amnesiac?

You ARE projecting and what is worse - you can't even see it.

What I said: "Leave. Find another game. Problem solved."

What you cited: "Shut up or leave"

Do those statements look even remotely close to you? Both in terms of sense and tone of speech.

Edited April 14 by Zakkhar

[Venus-Venera]

Am 13.4.2024 um 16:13 schrieb Void2258:

I am not usually a fan of hard locking content, but for RJ and especially for Lich confrontations, we need to have a minimum RJ equipment requirement to be host. Too often, the mission is simply incompletable because the host RJ is so weak it breaches constantly, often the second the mission starts and nearly instantly after every repair, eventually ending the mission in failure due to being unable to repair the RJ anymore (no revolite). Often in these cases the weapons on the RJ are also unupgraded and do essentially nothing to the enemies, further ensuring the mission will fail to the constant breaches. On the rare cases where the equipment is better but still insufficient, you an finish only after a exhaustively long grind due to the still too frequent breaches and still too low weapon damage. Neither of these options is fun for players and contributed to the general dislike of the game mode, which actually causes this issue since many people do not bother to upgrade their RJ equipment due to avoiding the mode because of this very thing happening.

Unlike in regular missions, you can't even carry a badly equipped player via your own gear, since only one RJ is present. The other 3 players are essentially at the mercy of the host's RJ equipment, so there needs to be a hard gear check on who is allowed to be the host to ensure a good experience.

Does it depend on the dps mods? so “battle tab”?
I haven't played in forever. but that's how I remember it. because defense is not important. Of course the ship will go down quickly. but I can fix it non stop. and I always join with Lavos. I can spam the railjack skills and nothing lives there anymore - no matter what difficulty level or planet.