Turns out, being punished for managing a resource correctly isn't fun

[Fred_Avant_2019]

That's what I've been saying yeah.

If you want to make Ember work decently, you're gonna need to :

1. Use Archon Vitality because abusing heat procs is the only way to redeem her.
2. Not use Overextended because losing strength is a death sentence and it's not even that useful.
3. Use Archon Shards to patch that horrendous casting speed.
4. Use anywhere from 150 to 175% efficiency because Immolation isn't going to upkeep itself.
5. Use Exothermic and Arcane Energize JUST to offset Immolation's drain.
6. Not have negative ability Duration, else the ring of fire's damage won't even come into play.
7. Pray to RNGesus to keep having decent spawns to keep getting that 15% chance to drop energy orbs on kills if enemies are affected by Inferno.
8. Have high enough max energy capacity to avoid running out.
9. (Optional, but highly recommended) Remove Fireball for Roar, as Fireball has zero use cases, and having even just a 30% damage bonus will help alot more than this piece of crap worthless ability.

 

Or alternatively, you could play Saryn press 1, 3 and 4, then shoot enemies and watch the whole map die. 🤪

Ember is too much effort for too little reward.

 

Also nuking low level bs is irrelevant in today's meta.

Thermal Sunder is accessible to every single Warframe, and a single cast of it will effectively oneshot all enemies caught up in it through walls in all normal star chart missions.

 

Btw. For those who claim Caliban's the worst : you're right but that's assuming you don't subsume anything over his 1. He's horrible only because he only has three abilities. Ember's malfunctioning with all four of hers.

 

Also also:

Do not touch Trin. I finally found a build worth my time on her, don't go breaking her.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

12 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Fireball has zero use cases

Ironically, the Fireball augment that adds a ton of heat damage is probably the strongest thing Ember does. For example, subsume Nourish over her 2 with high strength, now you've got a generic shield gate gun platform, but with an actual niche of adding Viral + Heat to everything. Yes I know Gauss can do this too, shhh.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Il y a 2 heures, Xylena_Lazarow a dit :

Yes I know Gauss can do this too, shhh.

Exactly that.

Ember's not even special in that regard. Without the augment, Fireball's damage output is worthless next to Inferno, with the augment, it's capped because you can no longer charge it for extra damage and the modded heat multiplier you gain doesn't affect it.

And if we're talking augments... Immolation provides the lowest source of damage reduction to teammates in the game, even lower than Caliban's passive when fully charged. Healing Flame only affects Ember, Purifying Flame only affects teammates. Lastly, Exothermic is the only thing that keeps Ember's energy economy together, a frustrating bandaid that serves no other purpose than to address an issue that has no reason to be there in the first place.

 

Gyre is everything Ember should have been post rework. It's as simple as that.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Gyre is everything Ember should have been post rework.

Agree Gyre is the closest to the old Ember playstyle. Speaking of needlessly punishing abilities, love how Gyre's 3 goes on a minute long cooldown every time the game decides to stop spawning enemies. Nothing else does that. No reason for it to do that. She's also very reliant on Helminth, weird for a newer frame.

[sunderthefirmament]

On 2024-05-16 at 12:23 PM, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Agree Gyre is the closest to the old Ember playstyle. Speaking of needlessly punishing abilities, love how Gyre's 3 goes on a minute long cooldown every time the game decides to stop spawning enemies. Nothing else does that. No reason for it to do that. She's also very reliant on Helminth, weird for a newer frame.

Agreed. It feels awful to activate her 3 and then run right into an elevator or friendship door.  It’s needlessly punishing design for a frame that can’t even perform well in the content required to unlock her (without massive investment and Helminth support).  I like Gyre, but I will admit I wrote her off as a tickle nuker until I tried pillage and 5 crimson shards. 

[BalaDeSilver]

1 hour ago, sunderthefirmament said:

5 crimson shards

_{It's perfectly doable with 4 Tau Reds and a Purple for more damage.}

[sunderthefirmament]

7 hours ago, BalaDeSilver said:

_{It's perfectly doable with 4 Tau Reds and a Purple for more damage.}

_{I haven't adjusted my build since the ascent fusion update.}

[(PSN)rexis12]

On 2024-05-17 at 1:23 AM, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Agree Gyre is the closest to the old Ember playstyle. Speaking of needlessly punishing abilities, love how Gyre's 3 goes on a minute long cooldown every time the game decides to stop spawning enemies. Nothing else does that. No reason for it to do that. She's also very reliant on Helminth, weird for a newer frame.

Gyre is pretty much the poster child of 'Screwed over by Armor' of the game. With abilities that are genuinely well designed for what she's meant to be, but cucked by armor that requires a mandatory switch for Helmith.

And you can't even just not do Grineer, because surprise the Murmur has enemies with Armor (Despite wanting you to move away from Viral+Slash) and Acolytes also have armor. 

I'm glad that Armor is getting reworked. 

[Xylena_Lazarow]

2 hours ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

And you can't even just not do Grineer, because surprise the Murmur has enemies with Armor (Despite wanting you to move away from Viral+Slash) and Acolytes also have armor. I'm glad that Armor is getting reworked. 

Still hilarious that DE tried to push us off Viral/Slash but seemed to forget that nobody cares about the Viral/Slash direct damage types, just the procs, which still destroy hp meat slabs and armored bots just as hard as everywhere else. They had it right making Deimos Infested immune to Viral procs, wonder why they got away from that.

The Armor rework should in theory help both Gyre and Ember quite a bit, making Fire Blast significantly less trash, and giving Gyre some desperately needed build flexibility. My favorite Gyre has been 200% STR Tharros Strike, but the 3 cooldown screwing me if I want to search for a Voca had me put her back on the shelf again.

[Kittens_For_Life]

7 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

Still hilarious that DE tried to push us off Viral/Slash but seemed to forget that nobody cares about the Viral/Slash direct damage types, just the procs, which still destroy hp meat slabs and armored bots just as hard as everywhere else. They had it right making Deimos Infested immune to Viral procs, wonder why they got away from that.

The Armor rework should in theory help both Gyre and Ember quite a bit, making Fire Blast significantly less trash, and giving Gyre some desperately needed build flexibility. My favorite Gyre has been 200% STR Tharros Strike, but the 3 cooldown screwing me if I want to search for a Voca had me put her back on the shelf again.

They had probably moved away from that due to how artificial it was percieved (might be wrong on this) but if a status proc is so universally powerful that the only way they could weaken it was giving complete immunity to it, that puts the problem more on viral's status effect itself if they had to resort to implementing outright immunities to create a challenge

[(PSN)rexis12]

7 hours ago, Xylena_Lazarow said:

They had it right making Deimos Infested immune to Viral procs, wonder why they got away from that.

That's because they wanted it to be a gimmick than anything balance related. 

Like how some of the enemies in Orb Vallis are immune to Magnetic Procs, despite that being the literal best place for them to be used. 

[Kittens_For_Life]

1 minute ago, (PSN)rexis12 said:

That's because they wanted it to be a gimmick than anything balance related. 

Like how some of the enemies in Orb Vallis are immune to Magnetic Procs, despite that being the literal best place for them to be used. 

To me it's like the common trope in rpgs, where the party is so overpowered in comparison the only way a super boss could be challenging would be by breaking the game's own established rules (ie, complete immunity to status effects, attacking multiple times in one turn)

[Venus-Venera]

vor 1 Minute schrieb (PSN)rexis12:

That's because they wanted it to be a gimmick than anything balance related. 

Like how some of the enemies in Orb Vallis are immune to Magnetic Procs, despite that being the literal best place for them to be used. 

That doesn't help because we have 2-3 weapons. So very good status combinations are possible here and with top weapons.
It would be better to have more interesting gameplay and not just a better choice of weapon.

[Xylena_Lazarow]

15 hours ago, Kittens_For_Life said:

They had probably moved away from that due to how artificial it was percieved... To me it's like the common trope in rpgs

Okay I do see that, but now the best weapon against many enemies is the thing they're supposed to resist (both mechanically and canonically), which similarly feels gamey and immersion-breaking. Obliterating Infested and Murmur with Viral just feels wrong to me, and it's gotta be confusing for newer players to hear "yeah you should use Viral against the things that say they resist Viral." Deimos Infested at least still took (reduced) Viral direct damage, it wasn't full immunity like Treasurers taking zero Toxin.

Edited May 19 by Xylena_Lazarow