Riven Stats Lowered When Equpped Despite High(est) Disposition

[Mr_Adderal]

I've been trying to work this out in my head for the past hour and I can't tell if I'm being incredibly dense. Basically, I have an Afuris riven which increases base damage to +397% which I have equipped onto my Dex Furis. It has the highest riven disposition of 5/5 and I checked the wiki for the specific number, which is x1.39. Though equipping the riven drops the damage to +381% base damage. Calculations suggest this should increase to +551% (397 x 1.39) Another example is my Opticor Vandal: disposition 3/5 (x1.10 according to wiki) with critical chance increase of +163% dropping to +156% when equipped. I'm sure I have more examples of this with my other rivens too.

Am I misunderstanding how disposition works? Or could the disposition values now be different for these two weapons and this just hasn't been updated on the wiki and in the Arsenal UI? I tried asking in Q&A chat but no helpful answers unfortunately. Please save me from this headache! 😫

[rapt0rman]

The base stats you're seeing are for the regular Afuris, which has a disposition of 1.45x, hence the stats being slightly lower on Dex Furis with 1.39x.

[Zakkhar]

Dots are just a general feel of a bracket. What matters is the number: 

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Riven_Mods#Disposition

1,55 is max, 0,5 is min.

Only two weapons have currently 1,55 dispo:  Harpak & Flux Rifle (normal one, Tenet has 1,1)

When viewing a riven it shows you the weapon it fits into in bottom right corner. You can cycle through those weapons to see the actual stats. It likely shows you the Afuris stats (1,45 dispo) and lowers them when you equip Dex furis (1,39 dispo), they would be even lower if you used Afuris Prime (1,00 dispo).

Edited May 13 by Zakkhar

[Mr_Adderal]

2 minutes ago, rapt0rman said:

The base stats you're seeing are for the regular Afuris, which has a disposition of 1.45x, hence the stats being slightly lower on Dex Furis with 1.39x.

You legend! Thank you, that makes perfect sense.

That's an infuriating system. So the regular Afuris to have a disposition of x1.45, and the stats will appear the same when equipped on the regular version, then for the stats to appear lower for the Dex Furis because the disposition is at x1.39. It makes it seem like there should still be an increase from the base stats. Makes much more sense for the highest disposition out of set weapon variations to just be x1.00 and then decrease to below 1 accordingly. I wonder how many other people thought the same as me...

Much appreciated!

[Tiltskillet]

Off topic, but it would be nice if hovering over Disposition in the Arsenal gave the numeric dispo.

[Zakkhar]

21 minutes ago, Mr_Adderal said:

That's an infuriating system.

I wouldnt call it that.

21 minutes ago, Mr_Adderal said:

So the regular Afuris to have a disposition of x1.45, and the stats will appear the same when equipped on the regular version, then for the stats to appear lower for the Dex Furis because the disposition is at x1.39.

As I already said you can cycle through the weapons  you own in the riven menu and view proper stats.

21 minutes ago, Mr_Adderal said:

It makes it seem like there should still be an increase from the base stats. Makes much more sense for the highest disposition out of set weapon variations to just be x1.00 and then decrease to below 1 accordingly.

Not really. It would make sense if it was modifier to the base thats, but it multiplcation of a bonus. If the bonus were to be lower than 0,5 the riven mod would likely not be competitive with ordinary mods.

Also you are not even scratching the surface. There is thing called stat budget, it depends mainly on the type of a riven (you can have 2 pos, 2 pos 1 neg, 3 pos, 3 pos 1 neg), low amount of positives makes the budget higher, addition of negative makes the budget even higher.

For example with Dex Furis, if you rolled a riven that has 3 positives and no curse (lowest budget) the stat budget ranges for positives are as follows:

Buffs

• 112.3 to 137.3% Multishot
• 206.0 to 251.8% Damage
• 112.6 to 137.6% Physical Damage
• 140.7 to 172.0% Critical Chance 
• 84.4 to 103.2% Critical Damage
• 84.4 to 103.2% Elemental Damage
• 84.4 to 103.2% Status Chance 
• 93.8 to 114.7% Status Duration
• 42.2 to 51.6% Damage to Faction
• 70.1 to 85.7% Fire Rate
• 46.9 to 57.3% Magazine Capacity
• 84.4 to 103.2% Ammo Maximum
• 84.4 to 103.2% Projectile Speed
• 46.9 to 57.3% Reload Speed
• -84.4 to -103.2% Weapon Recoil
• 75.2 to 91.9% Zoom
• 2.5 to 3.1 Punch Through

But if you were to get 2 positives 1 negative (highest budget) the table would look like this:

Buffs

• 185.3 to 226.5% Multishot
• 340.0 to 415.5% Damage
• 185.8 to 227.1% Physical Damage
• 232.2 to 283.8% Critical Chance
• 139.3 to 170.3% Critical Damage
• 139.3 to 170.3% Elemental Damage
• 139.3 to 170.3% Status Chance
• 154.8 to 189.2% Status Duration
• 69.7 to 85.1% Damage to Faction
• 115.6 to 141.3% Fire Rate
• 77.4 to 94.6% Magazine Capacity
• 139.3 to 170.3% Ammo Maximum
• 139.3 to 170.3% Projectile Speed
• 77.4 to 94.6% Reload Speed
• -139.3 to -170.3% Weapon Recoil
• 124.0 to 151.6% Zoom
• 4.2 to 5.1 Punch Through

Those are ranges. Yes, you can get low or high roll on the range within the constrains of the riven type depending on luck.

Edited May 13 by Zakkhar

[Mr_Adderal]

12 minutes ago, Zakkhar said:

I wouldnt call it that.

As I already said you can cycle through the weapons  you own in the riven menu and view proper stats.

Not really. It would make sense if it was modifier to the base thats, but it multiplcation of a bonus. If the bonus were to be lower than 0,5 the riven mod would likely not be competitive with ordinary mods.

Also you are not even scratching the surface. There is thing called stat budget, it depends mainly on the type of a riven (you can have 2 pos, 2 pos 1 neg, 3 pos, 3 pos 1 neg), low amount of positives makes the budget higher, addition of negative makes the budget even higher.

For example with Dex Furis, if you rolled a riven that has 3 positives and no curse (lowest budget) the stat budget ranges for positives are as follows:

Buffs

• 112.3 to 137.3% Multishot
• 206.0 to 251.8% Damage
• 112.6 to 137.6% Physical Damage
• 140.7 to 172.0% Critical Chance 
• 84.4 to 103.2% Critical Damage
• 84.4 to 103.2% Elemental Damage
• 84.4 to 103.2% Status Chance 
• 93.8 to 114.7% Status Duration
• 42.2 to 51.6% Damage to Faction
• 70.1 to 85.7% Fire Rate
• 46.9 to 57.3% Magazine Capacity
• 84.4 to 103.2% Ammo Maximum
• 84.4 to 103.2% Projectile Speed
• 46.9 to 57.3% Reload Speed
• -84.4 to -103.2% Weapon Recoil
• 75.2 to 91.9% Zoom
• 2.5 to 3.1 Punch Through

But if you were to get 2 positives 1 negative (highest budget) the table would look like this:

Buffs

• 185.3 to 226.5% Multishot
• 340.0 to 415.5% Damage
• 185.8 to 227.1% Physical Damage
• 232.2 to 283.8% Critical Chance
• 139.3 to 170.3% Critical Damage
• 139.3 to 170.3% Elemental Damage
• 139.3 to 170.3% Status Chance
• 154.8 to 189.2% Status Duration
• 69.7 to 85.1% Damage to Faction
• 115.6 to 141.3% Fire Rate
• 77.4 to 94.6% Magazine Capacity
• 139.3 to 170.3% Ammo Maximum
• 139.3 to 170.3% Projectile Speed
• 77.4 to 94.6% Reload Speed
• -139.3 to -170.3% Weapon Recoil
• 124.0 to 151.6% Zoom
• 4.2 to 5.1 Punch Through

Those are ranges. Yes, you can get low or high roll on the range within the constrains of the riven type depending on luck.

Thanks for the extra info. I had a feeling this was the case with positives and negatives on riven rolls for balancing but I never knew it was called stat budget.

TBF I couldn't actually check this with the normal Afuris in game as I only own the Dex variant. Same story with the Opticor Vandal as I scrapped the normal Opticor when I bought the Vandal to make space for other weapons I was building. And the dispositions for the Opticor and Opticor Vandal are very close so I never noticed the change.

I refer to it as infuriating only because on the surface it looks like this should be increasing stats rather than decreasing but it now makes sense that this would be lower due to the Afuris' higher value. I had no idea that actual stat values are dependent on the highest disposition out of the variants of a given weapon and to only go lower from there. The stats on the Dex Furis didn't make a huge difference anyway so I never questioned it, but I recently cycled a +311.5 Crit Chance +3.3 range for the Pangolin Sword and checked to see that Pangolin Prime has a disposition of x1.00 so was hoping to get this finally answered before I finish building the Pangolin Prime (I can see that this would lower on the Prime to roughly +211% & +2.2).

I guess DE have increased/decreased the riven disposition of weapons occasionally since the release of rivens so some weapons don't become too overpowered hence me making this mistake with the Afuris and Dex Furis.

[Zakkhar]

48 minutes ago, Mr_Adderal said:

I had no idea that actual stat values are dependent on the highest disposition out of the variants of a given weapon and to only go lower from there.

They are not. Stat values depend on the budget and the disposition above 1 just increases them, while one below 1 decreases them. Just clearly 1,39x increases them by smaller amount than 1,45x. Always check what weapon is showing in the bottom right corner of Cycle Menu (press Arrow to cycle trough the weapons). Afaik it will always show the Default Weapon as the Default Screen, whether you own it or not. If that happens to be highest disposition, that is just a coincidence. Funny thing, lower dispo also decreases the negative stats (recoil appears as positive value but it is a curse).

For example: Normal HEK (1,20x): default screen

Vaykor Hek (1,15x): arrow right once

Kuva Hek (0,90x): arrow right twice

(stats are trash, it is just an example of how UI works).

Edited May 13 by Zakkhar