Steam Forums and Pride Month

[Genitive]

12 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

I don’t think you can really cry discrimination anymore when Corporations, Media, and Governments support you.

That's just so not true, it's laughable. LGBT+ people suffer from discrimination at school, work, are demonised in the media, many countries don't allow same-sex marriages, make transitioning extremely difficult, if not impossible, and that's without those countries where being gay is punished by death. But sure, western companies celebrate pride month, so it doesn't count.

 

I'll assume you're just uninformed, rather than malicious, and leave some sources. Do with them what you will.

Spoiler

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/cy/lgbtq-facts-and-figures

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/widespread-discrimination-continues-shape-lgbt-peoples-lives-subtle-significant-ways/

https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights-2024

https://translegislation.com/

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

34 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

I don’t think you can really cry discrimination anymore when Corporations, Media, and Governments support you.

Maybe you’re mistaking criticism over how the movement chooses to go about certain things for it. Like I for one will never be comfortable rejecting reality for the sake of someone’s perception. It has nothing to do with any specific movement. It’s my line in the sand. And I know you take issue with that because it goes directly against what you believe is right. Perhaps you need to take a step back and recognize how the rest of us actually see your movement instead of going full blown militant and calling everyone bigots.

Governments, corporations and media aren't a monolith. 

So which ones specifically you referring to? 

[ToastyGrimlock98]

12 minutes ago, Genitive said:

That's just so not true, it's laughable. LGBT+ people suffer from discrimination at school, work, are demonised in the media, many countries don't allow same-sex marriages, make transitioning extremely difficult, if not impossible, and that's without those countries where being gay is punished by death. But sure, western companies celebrate pride month, so it doesn't count.

 

I'll assume you're just uninformed, rather than malicious, and leave some sources. Do with them what you will.

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/cy/lgbtq-facts-and-figures

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/widespread-discrimination-continues-shape-lgbt-peoples-lives-subtle-significant-ways/

https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights-2024

https://translegislation.com/

 

Ok, and how does parading around in places you’re already accepted help further your interests in those other countries?

Edited June 3 by ToastyGrimlock98

[ToastyGrimlock98]

6 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Governments, corporations and media aren't a monolith. 

So which ones specifically you referring to? 

Western obviously.

 Remember how every western company puts up a flashy rainbow version of their emblem every June?

Remember how Hollywood has continuously pushed more and more representation in all their content?

Remember when Canada seriously considered a bill that would make misgendering a federal crime?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 minute ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Western obviously.

 Remember how every western company puts up a flashy rainbow version of their emblem every June?

Remember how Hollywood has continuously pushed more and more representation in all their content?

Remember when Canada seriously considered a bill that would make misgendering a federal crime?

Laws are put in place to prevent crimes. Ask the person still using harassment and violence to hurt someone, why theyre still doing it..   instead of asking why we're celebrating fighting evil.

 

[MagPrime]

49 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

I don’t think you can really cry discrimination anymore when Corporations, Media, and Governments support you.

Maybe you’re mistaking criticism over how the movement chooses to go about certain things for it. Like I for one will never be comfortable rejecting reality for the sake of someone’s perception. It has nothing to do with any specific movement. It’s my line in the sand. And I know you take issue with that because it goes directly against what you believe is right. Perhaps you need to take a step back and recognize how the rest of us actually see your movement instead of going full blown militant and calling everyone bigots.

Slight issue; within the "western world" there has been numerous legislative attempts to outlaw every letter in the acronym, as well as continued discrimination and violence, it's just not on the same scale or as horrific as Matthew Shepard's attack.  There are still problems that need to be fixed.

I'm finding that relying on most forms of news media is going to create an emotional response from viewers instead of a rational one, because so much of our media rely on views to increase profits and saying some stupid sh*t is a good way to get views. 

[ToastyGrimlock98]

7 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Laws are put in place to prevent crimes. Ask the person still using harassment and violence to hurt someone, why theyre still doing it..   instead of asking why we're celebrating fighting evil.

 

 

 Speaking freely is not a crime.

IDK if you’re referring to someone in this forum or just general ambiguous person.

“Fighting evil”

IDK man. Some of the things I’ve seen from your side ain’t exactly squeaky clean.

Edited June 3 by ToastyGrimlock98

[MagPrime]

7 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

 

 Speaking freely is not a crime.

IDK if you’re referring to someone in this forum or just general ambiguous person.

“Fighting evil”

IDK man. Some of the things I’ve seen from your side ain’t exactly squeaky clean.

Before trying to bring out dirty laundry on anyone, make sure you're not standing in a smelly pile of it yourself. 

[Genitive]

19 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Ok, and how does parading around in places you’re already accepted help further your interests in those other countries?

Don't you think that pride marches also serve to raise awareness that LGBT+ community faces huge obstacles in those countries? Don't you think that maybe, eventually, things in those countries will also start to change, after enough people become more tolerant and less scared? 

Of course, after they've been already accepted in the west. You seem to think so, but numerous laws in the USA and Europe prove otherwise.

 

14 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Remember when Canada seriously considered a bill that would make misgendering a federal crime?

That's not true, either. The bill you're referring to doesn't penalise misgendering, it aims to penalise hate crimes against LGBT+. 

Spoiler

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-canada-bill-lgbtq-777684926093

https://www.ola.org/sites/default/files/node-files/bill/document/pdf/2023/2023-04/b094_e.pdf

 

[ToastyGrimlock98]

Just now, MagPrime said:

Before trying to bring out dirty laundry on anyone, make sure you're not standing in a smelly pile of it yourself. 

Ok?

 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

15 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

 

 Speaking freely is not a crime.

IDK if you’re referring to someone in this forum or just general ambiguous person.

“Fighting evil”

IDK man. Some of the things I’ve seen from your side ain’t exactly squeaky clean.

Then neither is having a parade or showing a rainbow. 

Live and let live, turn the channel off, look away etc if someone's existence bothers you.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Ok?

 

There wouldn't be a Pride anything if some seriously heinous things hadn't been done before hand.  Pride is simply a reaction to what's been happening.  Does every group of humans have extremists or people who latch on, pretending just so they can be horrible?   You'd have to be lying if you said no.  

Claiming the validity or integrity of anything is compromised simply because some things or people associated aren't "squeaky clean" is disingenuous, at best.  

 

[ToastyGrimlock98]

Just now, Genitive said:

Don't you think that pride marches also serve to raise awareness that LGBT+ community faces huge obstacles in those countries? Don't you think that maybe, eventually, things in those countries will also start to change, after enough people become more tolerant and less scared? 

Of course, after they've been already accepted in the west. You seem to think so, but numerous laws in the USA and Europe prove otherwise.

 

That's not true, either. The bill you're referring to doesn't penalise misgendering, it aims to penalise hate crimes against LGBT+. 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-canada-bill-lgbtq-777684926093

https://www.ola.org/sites/default/files/node-files/bill/document/pdf/2023/2023-04/b094_e.pdf

 

Oh yes I’m sure a bunch of naked dudes (and yes there is nudity and pride parades. I’ve seen it) dancing in the street is going to suddenly win over the hearts and minds of every person in the Middle East. No. It does nothing to directly challenge those people’s beliefs.

XD. Dude I’m talking about C-16 from years ago. Not recent stuff.

[ToastyGrimlock98]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

Then neither is having a parade or showing a rainbow. 

Live and let live, turn the channel off, look away etc if someone's existence bothers you.

It’s not really someone’s existence that bothers me. More the “I exist and you need to refer to me how I want to be referred to regardless of what the reality is”.

Freedom of Speech only pertains to the individual. You can’t force people to say what you want them to say.

Denying reality for an individual doesn’t sit right with me. Because it’s literally the exact same concept that makes me not like religion.

[ToastyGrimlock98]

8 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

There wouldn't be a Pride anything if some seriously heinous things hadn't been done before hand.  Pride is simply a reaction to what's been happening.  Does every group of humans have extremists or people who latch on, pretending just so they can be horrible?   You'd have to be lying if you said no.  

Claiming the validity or integrity of anything is compromised simply because some things or people associated aren't "squeaky clean" is disingenuous, at best.  

 

 

I would gladly tell you the heinous things I’ve seen from your side that made me flat out go “Yeah, I’m not supporting that”. But I feel that’s going a step too far for a video game forum.

Just know it’s stuff that anybody from any walk of life should find heinous.

 

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

 

I would gladly tell you the heinous things I’ve seen from your side that made me flat out go “Yeah, I’m not supporting that”. But I feel that’s going a step too far for a video game forum.

Just know it’s stuff that anybody from any walk of life should find heinous.

 

You just dodged the point at an Olympic level. 

[Genitive]

3 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Oh yes I’m sure a bunch of naked dudes (and yes there is nudity and pride parades. I’ve seen it) dancing in the street is going to suddenly win over the hearts and minds of every person in the Middle East. No. It does nothing to directly challenge those people’s beliefs.

I'm sure a bunch of crazy women screaming in the streets is going to suddenly give women the right to vote. I'm sure a black woman refusing to move her seat in a bus is going to suddenly start a civil rights movement in the US. Every movement ever started small.

11 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

XD. Dude I’m talking about C-16 from years ago. Not recent stuff.

Then you're wrong again. C-16 is an amendment to the Canadian Human Rights Act that puts gender identity under its protection against discrimination. It doesn't penalise misgendering, it penalises hate speech. Moreover, Canada wasn't "seriously considering" it. They passed the bill in 2017.

[Genitive]

14 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

It’s not really someone’s existence that bothers me. More the “I exist and you need to refer to me how I want to be referred to regardless of what the reality is”.

Referring to someone the way they want is basic decency.

[C11H22O1]

16 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

It’s not really someone’s existence that bothers me. More the “I exist and you need to refer to me how I want to be referred to regardless of what the reality is”.

Freedom of Speech only pertains to the individual. You can’t force people to say what you want them to say.

Denying reality for an individual doesn’t sit right with me. Because it’s literally the exact same concept that makes me not like religion.

What

Edited June 3 by C11H22O1

[ToastyGrimlock98]

1 minute ago, MagPrime said:

You just dodged the point at an Olympic level. 

Nope. You yourself said that the perpetrators of all the hate and violence are only from select groups of extremists. And I’m not part of those groups.

You claim Pride is a reaction. But last I checked there hasn’t been massive anti-LGBT attacks every May for the last 9 years. Pride IS the thing that’s happening.

 

4 minutes ago, Genitive said:

Referring to someone the way they want is basic decency.

Not when it directly conflicts with reality.

[MagPrime]

1 minute ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Nope. You yourself said that the perpetrators of all the hate and violence are only from select groups of extremists. And I’m not part of those groups.

You claim Pride is a reaction. But last I checked there hasn’t been massive anti-LGBT attacks every May for the last 9 years. Pride IS the thing that’s happening.

 

Oh, so you aren't being obtuse, you just...completely misunderstood what I typed. 

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

2 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Nope. You yourself said that the perpetrators of all the hate and violence are only from select groups of extremists. And I’m not part of those groups.

You claim Pride is a reaction. But last I checked there hasn’t been massive anti-LGBT attacks every May for the last 9 years. Pride IS the thing that’s happening.

 

Not when it directly conflicts with reality.

What specific reality are you referring to?

[ToastyGrimlock98]

18 minutes ago, Genitive said:

I'm sure a bunch of crazy women screaming in the streets is going to suddenly give women the right to vote. I'm sure a black woman refusing to move her seat in a bus is going to suddenly start a civil rights movement in the US. Every movement ever started small.

Then you're wrong again. C-16 is an amendment to the Canadian Human Rights Act that puts gender identity under its protection against discrimination. It doesn't penalise misgendering, it penalises hate speech. Moreover, Canada wasn't "seriously considering" it. They passed the bill in 2017.

Except all those women protested IN AMERICA! Rosa Parks didn’t wanna move IN AMERICA! 
You’re not going to promote change in the Middle East when you won’t even do this stuff IN THE MIDDLE EAST!

But by your logic. Misgendering is hate speech. So it does punish misgendering.

Edited June 3 by ToastyGrimlock98

[ToastyGrimlock98]

3 minutes ago, (PSN)Madurai-Prime said:

What specific reality are you referring to?

Objective reality. The one uninterrupted by an individuals perception.

You could start arguing the semantics of “well your perception isn’t objective cuz such and such yadda yadda”. But you’re more than welcome to try and disprove the existence of Gravity. See how far you get with that.

8 minutes ago, MagPrime said:

Oh, so you aren't being obtuse, you just...completely misunderstood what I typed. 

Or you’re just really bad at explaining.

[MagPrime]

5 minutes ago, ToastyGrimlock98 said:

Objective reality. The one uninterrupted by an individuals perception.

You could start arguing the semantics of “well your perception isn’t objective cuz such and such yadda yadda”. But you’re more than welcome to try and disprove the existence of Gravity. See how far you get with that.

Or you’re just really bad at explaining.

There was a time I would be inclined to agree with you but I actually put in a lot of effort into being sure I'm understandable, up to and including asking others to review what I post before hand. 

7/7 people agree, you've misunderstood what was typed.